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| Thread: ICTC III: The Clockwork |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 31, 2008 09:17 PM |
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I think this faction would win. Its awesome.
Would be excellent H6 Academy (but include classical units).
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friendofgunnar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
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posted April 12, 2008 06:07 AM |
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Clockwork Faction:
FriendofGunnar
Cohesiveness:6/10
Imagination:11/15 We've seen alot of these creatures before in different games.
Back story:7/10 You've got a future writing sci-fi channel serials 
Battle facets: 8/10 Time jump would be a nice ability
Discretionary: 4/5 I'm lukewarm to the faction but I respect the effort.
This is kind of the sunday soup faction, a little bit of everything tossed in. A clockwork faction would be good but this one is unfocused.
"Technology is our tool, grafted with Magic our Power" pretty much summarizes this entire faction's problem.
36
Kookastar
Cohesiveness: 8
Imagination/creativity/originality/wow factor: 12 – some originality and creativity in both layout of information and ideas. Try to be succinct in your writing – find creative ways to tell stories to highlight your main ideas simply 
Back story: 9 – wow lots of detail, but too much really that it becomes distorted and loses the homm focus.
Battle facets: 8 – balance but not sure about the creatures themselves. The airship is brilliant – unsure why you haven’t kept the mechanics more cyber and less animal based…
Discretionary: 4 - I like the fashion , you’ve sourced some great graphics too. A lot of work has gone into this, thanks!
Total: 41
TDL
Cohesiveness(max 10) : 9
Creativity (max 10): 10
Backstory (max 10): 8
Battle Facets (max 15): 13
additional (max 5): 5
awesome and brilliant to a certain extent… developed, but it is simply too much… it does not really coalesce with homm though…
Total (max 50):45
Guest Judge's Score : 45.75 (Judges grades are weighed differently depending on how many factions they graded)
Judges Score: (36 + 41 + 45) / 3 = 40.67
Final Score: 43.21
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Tobius
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 13, 2008 02:50 PM |
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@ FriendOfGunnar
Hey dude,
I really don't know where your rating for the Clockwork is coming from! I think your rating is without any legal cause! If you had written, you simply hate this idea than there was a reason for such an unpredictable rating, but your pseudo-groundings are simply mocking, e.g. "You've got a future writing sci-fi channel serials". I don't think this is funny. It's just mockery.
Sorry, but this is how I feel about your rating. 
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted April 13, 2008 05:53 PM |
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Quote:
@ FriendOfGunnar
Hey dude,
I really don't know where your rating for the Clockwork is coming from! I think your rating is without any legal cause! If you had written, you simply hate this idea than there was a reason for such an unpredictable rating, but your pseudo-groundings are simply mocking, e.g. "You've got a future writing sci-fi channel serials". I don't think this is funny. It's just mockery.
Sorry, but this is how I feel about your rating.
Dude, that's how everybody else feels about your ratings! 
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 13, 2008 06:16 PM |
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he may be harsh, but actually, seeing his work, he may be even harsher with himself than with other people, no?
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Tobius
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 15, 2008 06:32 PM |
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Edited by Tobius at 18:49, 15 Apr 2008.
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@ FriendofGunnar
Quote:
Cohesiveness:6/10
I suspect, you've read any of the Description part which is next to the History. Really, everything about this faction is explained there, why there are mages and gremlins, why there is a mix of technology and magic. Apart from that it's absolutely fitting into the old universe which has a huge sci-fi background. 
Quote:
Imagination:11/15 We've seen alot of these creatures before in different games.
What should I say? The creatures of the of the winning Netherworld, for example, are known to us, too, though some have get new names. Should I've made up cyborgish units instead? Apart from that the combination of technology and magic is a somewhat innovative idea for video games and Heroes itself. Even if you've might seen the creatures before, there are much more creative as well as innovative alterations of the game mechanics. Did you ever look at the hero system, the creature system, the enhancements, the building system? These are fundamental changes. Look at Colony: Trolls everywhere (very well known from other games!) and the game mechanics stay the same: 11 points. How can you justify your score?
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Back story:7/10 You've got a future writing sci-fi channel serials
If this isn't sarcastic, I don't know what sarcasm is. You give 7 points for a future "sci-fi channel serials". What do you take me for?
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Battle facets: 8/10 Time jump would be a nice ability
Nothing to complain, though you don't give any reasons why the Clockwork looses 2 points here.
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Discretionary: 4/5 I'm lukewarm to the faction but I respect the effort.
In my humble opinion this indicates that you simply disliked the approach at all, thus you've given your really "objective" rating. Honestly, the faction may not be the best, but in any case it's definitely not below-average either! (Your average score is 36,6.) Anyway it's interesting that three judges whose average scores are almost the same can give such varying ratings for one and the same faction...
Quote:
This is kind of the sunday soup faction, a little bit of everything tossed in. A clockwork faction would be good but this one is unfocused.
"Technology is our tool, grafted with Magic our Power" pretty much summarizes this entire faction's problem.
One advice: read the Description! I think the motto much more summarizes your problem with this idea...
@ Vlaad
My average score is lower than the one of the other judges, I know, but every outstandig faction has got a higher-than-average score from my side as most of the other judges did, too. Unfortunately I seem to have attached greater importance to alterations of the game mechanics than most of the other judges did, thus my ratings may look sometimes a little strange.
@ Fauch
Harsh as I may be, I'm covinced that this faction is not below-average in any case.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted April 15, 2008 06:56 PM |
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Dude, just because you write a lot, doesn't mean that it is all quality. Everyone has their own opinions, and he has a right to his opinion. Like it or not, you really can't complain about it when you yourself have judged many other peoples factions with quite low scores. I guess you now have a taste of your own medicine.
but just remember, this is a internet message board, and this is just for fun. So what if someone doesn't like what you have done? Not everyone will like what you have done, and there will always be one person out there who will dislike your work. You just have to deal with it, because that's life.
Just enjoy yourself and don't let these little things worry you. There are things out there in the Real World which you should be worrying about more 
____________
~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Tobius
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 15, 2008 07:11 PM |
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Edited by Tobius at 19:13, 15 Apr 2008.
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Quote:
Everyone has their own opinions, and he has a right to his opinion. Like it or not (...)
And I have a right to critise his way of judging this entry! I have the right to ask him for a detailed explanation, because I cannot understand his rating what I tried to illustrate with the message above.
Quote:
(...) you really can't complain about it when you yourself have judged many other peoples factions with quite low scores. I guess you now have a taste of your own medicine.
In my humble opinion this question is about proportionality of the judge's ratings. As I said before your ratings should be argued conclusively, but in my eyes that's simply not the case here.
Besides I think that your own rating should be objective, thus it was absolutely scandalous if you give ratings influenced by another one's rating, for example, of your own entry or entries of your buddies or whatever.
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friendofgunnar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
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posted April 15, 2008 10:29 PM |
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As I said, the main problem I have with the faction is that you're mixing magic and technology. In any narrative work, you build a framework upon which you can introduce wonder and amazement. Typically, if the narrative is set in the future, you use technology as the framework. If it's set in the past, you use magic. The two frameworks are mutually exclusive because combining them introduces all kinds of logical fallacies that destroy the most important thing a narrative needs, the "suspension of disbelief". If you could summon magic power out of nothing, then there'd be no reason to develop technology. Likewise if you have mines, bombs, and steampower why would you need magic? In regards to the old universe, I came on board the M&M universe at M&M 6, so I wouldn't know about magic + technology before then. I suspect I would have thought it ridiculous.
I found your narrative/backstory kind of boring. There was nothing compelling me to keep reading it besides my obligation as a judge. The comment I made came from the observation that you throw in tons of somewhat-interesting ideas without actually worrying about the way they fit together, or being bogged down by real science. (Lost, Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek). That's not really a negative actually.
The skill system is really reminiscent of H4. There's nothing in it that struck me as fundamentally changing the game play. If I was to give out a high score in this category I would have to find something really new and intriguing. A couple of examples spring to mind: ActionJack's "Code of Honor" and Momo's "Unseen Hands". There's also host of honorable mentions like Vlaad's "Sky Lore". I didn't see anything really new except for the "send the experienced creatures back to allow upgrades," which I suspect would become tedious. And also, with the exception of level 6 and 1, the idea doesn't seem to have any correlation with the actual creatures themselves.
The Creatures:
Level 1 gremlins- A creature seen before in H3 and H5
If you're going to have two different upgrades, they should logically derive from the base creature. A gremlin mechanic upgrading to a gremlin engineer is a good example of this. A spell-stealing gremlin mage is not
Level 2- The steam engine/ lightning cannon is new, in the absence of all the other magic paraphenelia this would have been a good idea.
Level 3 mechanoids- My first thought was the dragon golems in H4, a creature that I thought was kinda silly in the first place.
Level 4 avians - from a narrative viewpoint everything in this tier is dubious...building creatures that can actually flap around and cause damage. The "hot-ray" mirror roc is super-dubious, especially it's spell bouncing ability. The time jump is a nice strategy ability although why the avian tier has it makes no sense.
Level 5 - We've seen the zeppelins and flying warships in loads of games before, like Myst and Warcraft.
Level 6 - This tier right here symbolizes everything wrong with the faction in my eyes. You have all these mechanical things and then suddenly you have a mage. Major incongruity.
Level 7 - A top tier golem is a new idea but then you get a total WTF when you read about golems casting spells.
So there's a basic lineup here that's struggling to come out but it's bogged down by strange upgrades, lack of novelty, and of course Magic.
When I first graded these, I graded them anonymously and without looking at the previous scores. After I graded it I was really surprised that you got such high scores. Having said all that, I didn't dislike the faction, I just didn't like it. You can respond to this if you like but I've finished my analysis and won't be spending any more time on it.
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Tobius
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 15, 2008 11:18 PM |
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@ FriendofGunnar
First of all thanks for your reply!
Now I'm somewhat able to relive your point of view, though I still cannot really understand your critism. I think the difference is that we absolutely part regarding the issue of technology meeting magic. I think you may want to reconsider treating magic and technology as something totally different - after all - they are just ways of controlling and transforming energy. A mage does that through concentration and by using his own internal energy called 'mana', a technician does that by using an external power source and the technology to drain energy from it in the right form. But in the end the result is the same - marvelous armies from another world in this case. Of course, in the real world you don't have magic at all, thus you cannot mix it up, but for me it was somehow thrilling to make up a faction of magical as well as technical beings. It's much more an unconventional way for me than making pure magic or technical faction. Sadly (for me), you as a judge dislike this idea, but it's your right. It's same with the background - another one may find it interesting, but you don't. Worse luck for me!
Perhaps I'll work over this concept and try again next time, though I'm not sure if this makes any sense.
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kookastar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted April 15, 2008 11:35 PM |
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Thread and competition closed - the judges decision is final and no correspondence will be entered into on the boards. We don't have time to argue about 40+ factions
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uhuh
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