|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
posted April 04, 2008 07:18 PM |
|
|
Again, it's been a while since last update. I've been busy moving to my new place, I'm still not done painting - but I've snapped out a moment to upload Fortress.  Again, units are presented with upgrades and abilities, but stats are not made. To see unit details, click on the image with the basic name.
As was clearly exposed in the "let's make the Fortress" thingie I did a while back, fans are very much divided on this faction, and I must admit already now, there there are some facets of this I'm not completely satisfied with - particularly the level 7 unit seems like a pretty poor concept. However - I was not able to come up with anything better - I would have gone with Valkyrie, did I not in the end feel that it ended up becoming to similar to the Pegasus of Sylvan. Suggestions are received with favor.
Heroes: Defender(?) and Rune Mage.
Alignment: Good, Chaotic, Radical.
Portefolios: Animation, Freedom, Fire.
Opposed Faction: Bastion.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted April 04, 2008 07:28 PM |
|
|
I'm sorry to say it, but this Fortess doesn't show advance from H5 Fortress. There isn't any major change here - you just put it into the new upgrading system you have. I hoped for more when I saw "Dwarves and their elemental allies". 
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted April 04, 2008 07:40 PM |
|
|
Well, each to their own. Like I've said before, I don't have major issues with Heroes 5 Fortress - quite on the contrary, apart from the Giant Dwarves, I think it's a pretty healthy concept. Hence this lineup.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted April 04, 2008 07:47 PM |
|
|
But we're all looking for a change here. I was expecting to see what would come from you. 
|
|
Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted April 04, 2008 08:13 PM |
|
|
Problem #1: You made the dwarves pink! ( )
level 1:
More or less same problem as was with pikeman - both upgrades seem to serve the same role. Or am I wrong?
level 2:
Fine, although a thought came to my mind - what if you give Bleeding and Crippling Wounds to one path making him a "pure" supporter shooter, and Harpoon with No Melee to the other making him a melee with the ability to draw his opponents closer to him? Just thinking out loud.
level 6:
What are the factors for block?
Also how did you come up with reach given to a mammoth?
level 8:
Isn't Unlimited Retaliation for a level 8 tank with a Mamga Shield an overkill?
Also, about the Fire Giant. If you don't like it, I'm sure we can find a substitution for him, I just need to know what you want it to be in terms of theme, abilities, battle role...
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
sheensher
Known Hero
and Slipknot FAn
|
|
posted April 04, 2008 08:17 PM |
|
|
My vision of Fortess
Tressed Wolf -> Armoured Wolf
Grey Wolf
Tundra Wolf -> Warg
Skirmisher -> Harpooner
Spearwielder
Dagger Thrower -> Axe Thrower
Shield Guard -> Mountain Guard
Warrior
Brawler -> Berserker
Black Bear Rider -> Bear Warlord
Battle Bear
White Bear Rider -> Bear Champion
Rune Patriarch -> Rune Master
Rune Adept
Rune Guard -> Rune keeper
Yeti -> Cave Yeti
Big Foot
Sasquatch -> Sasquatch Warrior
Thunder Thane -> Storm Lord
Thane
Flame Thane -> Fire Lord
Stone Dragon -> Crystal Dragon
Dragon Golem
Fire Dragon -> Magma Dragon
____________
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted April 04, 2008 09:23 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Problem #1: You made the dwarves pink! ()
*lol* Yeah, it seemed appropriate at the time of making. I would have gone for red had I not later changed the Necropolis green into red ... don't make me explain it, it'll not make much sense anyway.
Quote:
level 1:
More or less same problem as was with pikeman - both upgrades seem to serve the same role. Or am I wrong?
No, actually you are quite right. As with the Pikeman, I think this reflects that this was actually one of the first factions I made, and the concept was not fully put down at that time.
Ironically, I think I simply followed Nivals lead here, resulting in the Mountain Guard getting pretty much the poor end of the deal in terms of abilities. I guess the idea was to balance this out with stats, but a better approach might be this:
Shieldguard: Hold Ground + Large Shields (i.e. protects allies).
Mountain Guard: Defensive Stance + Shield Wall (i.e. protects self).
That gives these two creatures a subtle yet real difference in the role they play in combat.
Quote:
level 2:
Fine, although a thought came to my mind - what if you give Bleeding and Crippling Wounds to one path making him a "pure" supporter shooter, and Harpoon with No Melee to the other making him a melee with the ability to draw his opponents closer to him? Just thinking out loud.
I think that would be overkill. I think it works pretty well as it is: Harpooner will have the more offensive stats, and will have the ability that increases his damage (Bleeding Wound). Skirmisher will have the more defensive stats, and will have the defensive special (through hampering enemy advancement, Crippling Wound).
Quote:
level 6:
What are the factors for block?
Also how did you come up with reach given to a mammoth?
1) Block will probably be calculated through simple stack strength, similar to current Bash, Assault, Blinding Attack etc: Attacker number x Attacker Power relative to Defender number x Defender Power. This will mean that 1 Mammoth will not stand a chance of blacking the attack of 10 Black Dragons, whereas 10 Mammoths will have good chances of blocking the attack of 1 Black Dragon.
2. The picture I had in my mind was of these really great tusks, that allows it to attack from a short distance.
Quote:
level 8:
Isn't Unlimited Retaliation for a level 8 tank with a Mamga Shield an overkill?
It might be. Or it might be totally awesome.
No, I think it's important to understand that the Magma Dragon will be a TANK. And not a tank which is actually not really a tank as the Heroes 5 version (use Rune of Charge and wreck havvock). First off, runes will work differently, and damage and attack + defence stats would be less than it is now. That would still make it a total pain in the ... to take it down without good ranged power, and that's fine - that's what it's there for - but it would - hopefully - be less of an all-round crusher than the Heroes 5 version. Secondly - humm, don't know what I wanted to say more. :|
Quote:
Also, about the Fire Giant. If you don't like it, I'm sure we can find a substitution for him, I just need to know what you want it to be in terms of theme, abilities, battle role...
The problem with the Fire Giant is that he does sort of fit pretty well into the place, both in terms of role and theme. My main objection is that Fire Giant at level 7 and Fire Dragon at level 8 is sort of ... meh.
That being said, I wanted a unit that was a flyer and an all-round unit, not extremely offensive, but not a tank either. I think Nival got it pretty much right, that Fortress needs such a unit at the current level 6, and I think the Thanes fill that position pretty well in terms of their abilities. The problem with Thane is that Giant Dwarf is an abnormally lousy concept, particularly in a faction that already has quite its share of dwarves!
The Fire Giant does fill the role pretty well. Like I said, had the Fire Dragon not been there, I would have been fully satisfied with this unit - but I like the Fire Dragon too much to remove it, and also, introducing another level 8 (a Frost Dragon / Silver Dragon or something the like would have been an obvious choice) would have made a mess with the mythology (Dwarves are followers of Arkath).
In terms of abilities, I also think the Fire Giant et al. works pretty well in the overall framework. The Teleporting ability is required (only flyer in faction), and most of the other abilities are actually supporting abilities to the workings of the others units - Spirit Of Fire and Aura Of Fire Vulnerability will work wonders in combination with Rune Priest + Fire Dragons, I particularly love the Aura Of Fire Vulnerability combined with the Fire Immunity which gives a whole new and evil twist to the Elemental Gargoyle workings. 
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
|
|
posted April 05, 2008 12:58 AM |
|
|
I was happy to see a nice innovation with the Mammoth and Bears.  I was disappointed to see that we still have so many Dwarven troops running around when they're not even a particularly populous or... interesting race.
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted April 05, 2008 09:50 AM |
|
|
Ok, with 4 out of 8 troups being Dwarves, I'm a bit surprised that people still complain about "way too many Dwarves". I guess that shows that much of the debate rounds down to whether one wants a Dwarven town or not - or am I wrong?
Btw. the idea of a Yeti in this line-up could also work, I actually had the same thought earlier today. Hmm maybe I'll look into the idea of a Frost Giant / Yeti thing at level 7 to give a bit of variation from the Fire theme.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted April 05, 2008 11:04 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Shieldguard: Hold Ground + Large Shields (i.e. protects allies).
Mountain Guard: Defensive Stance + Shield Wall (i.e. protects self).
I'm ok with the abilities relocation, but I find the roles weird. Large Shields doesn't directly protect allies so Shieldguard looks more like a blocker that you put in a tight passage or a castle gate. The Mountain Guard, on the other hand, is a unit that benefits most from staying in his initial position because of both abilities and thus is more suited to protect shooters.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted April 05, 2008 05:00 PM |
|
|
Duh ... I always mix up the "Large Shield" and "Shield Allies" abilities.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted April 06, 2008 03:05 PM |
|
|
Don't assume what's not there. The bears and the mammoths are just what it says - bears and mammoths.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
|
|
posted April 06, 2008 03:31 PM |
|
|
|
We have heroes as Dwarves too, presumably. That's another contribution to the ruling race theme. Heck, both Elven races have three and a half of their own race in their ranks (Nymphs and Raiders), why have a fourth Dwarf when you could have a more interesting and creative creature of some sort? Matter of taste of course
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted April 06, 2008 03:49 PM |
|
|
Bears are not mounted. I found that an extremely silly concept. Siege Mammoth might be, but generally, Mammoth is not intended to be mounted either.
Elven towns only have 3½ units of their main race. Fortress has 4. Haven has 6. Inferno and Necropolis have 8. Academy has 1. I think a bit of variation is sound. Dwarves are a bit more solicuous than Elves I guess.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
|
|
posted April 07, 2008 09:11 PM |
|
|
Switching magma and lava would do, since plasma seems offensive while the infamous rock hard magma would fit better as the defensive opposite instead of lava.
____________
|
|
Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted April 11, 2008 11:37 PM |
|
|
I thought magma was liquid though
____________
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted April 12, 2008 10:57 AM |
|
|
It is. Actually, the technical difference between Lava and Magma has nothing to do with it's physical state: Lava is de-gassed Magma, which typically means Magma turnes into Lava once it reaches the surface. Still, I might go with swapping Magma and Lava. Or I might introduce a brand new specie: The Pa-Hoe-Hoe Dragon.
Anyway, I've been a bit busy lately, updates on Dwarves will hopefully come before too long.
Ok, some Dwarves creatures are upgraded. There's a completely new level 7 creature, and I actually must admit I like it. It adds some new abilities that are both very good and are different from what the other creatures in the line-up has, making it more interesting than the old one. An interesting point is that Fortress now has (almost) no flying units. 
Speeding right along, as I've had a bit of free time today, here's with no further ado Bastion. Heroes 3 fans should like this one.
Heroes: Beast Master and Witch(?).
Alignment: Evil, Lawful, Conservative.
Portefolios: Destruction, Slavery, Water.
Opposed Faction: Fortress.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
|
|
posted April 13, 2008 11:12 PM |
|
|
|
I like it (but now we have ten hydras, bleh). Maybe you could explain a little further the physical design you might have had in mind for each unit, for example the Wyrms, Raiders etc.
|
|
GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted April 13, 2008 11:43 PM |
|
|
Sounds very good. The names are very creative.
The description of the Demolish ability is missing.
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted April 14, 2008 11:36 PM |
|
|
I don't see a problem with Hydras showing up in several towns. Why should Dragons own the right for this exclusively? There are differences in the two types of Hydras - first of all, you may note that Cave Hydras + upgrades are 3-headed, whereas Swamp Hydras + upgrades are 6-headed.
Furthermore apperance will probably be radically different - cave Hydras would have a hide and possibly a dominant ridge of scales down the neck, whereas Swamp hydras would be covered in smaller scales, more similar to fish and other water-dwelling animals. Colours will also reflect their habitat.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
