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durell
Adventuring Hero
Sub-n00b
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posted June 07, 2008 11:09 AM |
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Lets Get Moving!
The most important factor in winning a game IMHO is often movement!
Many new players fail to realise the importance.
If a perfectly balanced map is played between two players who are evenly matched on skill(very unlikely) then the outcome will be decided in many cases by movement because, with more movement and better movement management one is able to increase the produtivity of his heroes.The player will clear his area faster and move onto other areas claiming the rewards from said areas before opponent.
A few tips:
When taking another area that is NOT native to the creatures of which the hero carries,It is preferable to take the terrain town if possible buy a hero from that town who is native if one is available that carries native army and all low lvl creatures.This will be enough to take any small resource fights,all scouts on non native terrain should carry only creatures native to terrain except perhaps one or two who follow main hero carrying army bulk and passing army to hero for combat only.If at all possible never take main hero wandering on terrain with non native creatures unless he/she has expert pathfinding.Obvious to 90% of players i know.
If a hero ends turn carrying slow creatures ie: creature speed 3-4 then he will awaken the following day with no bonus movement to hero.
If however, he ends turn carrying ONLY his fastes units then this will be reflected in the movement for that hero the following turn!
It is important to give all scouts the fastest creature that your main army can do without for example,royal griffins,silver pegasus,sprites,dragon flies!
If your main hero is ending movement near a mine it is possible to revisit mine without stepping off it,simply by pressing spacebar,one can then leave all but the fastest creatures on the mine without having to waste movementy by stepping off and on mine!
Poor mans town portal.
Main hero is 5 days away from the town where you would like him?
Take army from main hero except a fast creature.Intentionally commit suicide with main hero from any nearby fight where the creatures are slower or non moraling and buy back from tavern.Then chain" army back to town!
Gloves,stables,boots,logistics,pathfinding.
Anymore from anymore?
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Stars are just pin holes in the curtain of night.
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fank0
Known Hero
There are no limits
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posted June 08, 2008 06:29 AM |
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Edited by fank0 at 14:58, 08 Jun 2008.
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Example:
Your main hero is out of movement. You have 3-4 heroes that can still move this turn and take over a distant hive. You have 3 AA and a royal griffin and you are equipped with cape of velocity. Main should end turn carrying the griffin only, as 11 speed already gives you the maximum movement bonus for the next turn. With a weak hero you will need the extra AA for fighting the hive.
IMPORTANT - I am wrong about the cape of velocity increasing your map movement. This example is not correct. It would be correct if instead of a royal griffin you place any 11+ speed creature.
Example:
Often there are objects on the road. Be careful to move through them, instead of moving around them.
Example:
You are playing rampart and at the end of your turn you have a hero with 40 cents, 10 GE and 2-3 dwarves left. No other hero can reach your main this turn. Dismiss the dwarves.
Example:
You have boots of speed, sandals of the saint , gloves of the equestrian, and two rings of any kind. If you are sure you will not fight your opponent the next turn you should always end turns with the boots and gloves equipped to gain movement points for the next turn. At the beginning of the next turn do not forget to equip the sandals and the rings to take advantage ot them. Repeat every turn.
Example:
When there is the slightest chance that your opponent may attack you the next turn, DO NOT end turn with fast creatures trying to gain movement. Always take all troops available and arrange them for battle against human opponent. You may however decide not to recruit those 20 dwarves, instead splitting a silver pegasus to take retal with.
Example:
Main should aim to follow the roads. Only major stuff should bring your hero off the road. Also, as Frank mentioned in some topic try to plan your path wisely. So if there is a conservatory and next to it a learning stone and some chests guarded by a horde/throng of walking dead it may be smart to go to this area with your main only after you are ready to kill the griffins. You still get the same ammount of experience points but you save movement.
Example:
You play stronghold with Crag Hack. You have advanced offense and you are offered pathfinding and expert offense on level up. I recommend taking pathfinding for three reasons:
1. You do not risk to get bad skills oferred on the next level up.
2. You negate the movement penalty of 25% for rough terrain, allowing Crag to move with angels/wyverns without losing movement
points.
3. On maps with desert zone you will be able to do considerably more fights in the T-zone due to pathfinding negating the 75% penalty.
IMPORTANT - the penalty for moving through the desert is 50%, not 75%.
Example:
You are moving through a swamp. Your main does not have pathfinding. You have some low on speed native units and an angel. End turns with the angel only, then at the beggining of the next turn pass it to another hero, preferably a pathfinder.
Example:
Equestrian gloves do not work cumulatively. If you have two pairs, pass the second one to another hero.
Example:
It is day seven and a stable is located half a turn away from your main hero, who has full movement. Pass army to other heroes , and let main end the turn with a max (11) speed unit at the stables. The loss of movement will be less than the bonus that stables provide by the end of the next week. However, if you expect a fight with your opponent soon (3-4 turns) you should not go for the stable, as the bonus will not surpass the loss of movement early enough.
Example:
Your main is half a turn away from a town with a mage guild built. He is low on mana points. There are no other known options to refill your mana pool. Your hero should sacrifice the other half of his movement in order to refill his mana pool.
Hints:
1.Equip any max knowledge artifact and remove any knowledge reducing artefact.
2. If dungeon town, you should build a Mana Vortex. It will INSTANTLY double your mana points. No need to end turn in town.
3. If tower town, wall of knowledge on the first turn and a library (if you still do not have a spell you think you may need) on the next is the way to go.
4. In any other town, you should purchase a stat boosting building. Ex. A Hall of Valhalla with Stronghold.
Example:
Play smart , not hard. Do not let yourself be distracted by unimportant objects on the map. Losing half a turn to visit a +1 att/def booster is not a good decision in most cases.
Example:
Always aim to have scouts moving in front of your main hero. Exploring the area in advance is vital. Thus you will be able to plan a path for your main and position your other heroes properly, instead of moving blindly through the shroud.
Example:
Your main is almost with no movement points left, but he can still commit a suicidal attack. Next to it there is a hero with full movement and in the direction you plan to move with main there is an unoccupied town. The secondary hero should take over the town and build a tavern. Your main should retreat from the fight against the neutrals. You buy him at your new town, saving a whole movement turn.
If main cannot retreat this turn it is still ok. Just retreat the next turn. You still save an almost whole turn.
Example:
Get town portal. Jump , Jump , Jump ...
Example:
Get expert view air/view earth on any hero. Cast every turn. The information you get is invaluable.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted June 08, 2008 09:19 AM |
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Edited by liophy at 11:11, 08 Jun 2008.
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Quote:
Example:
Your main hero is out of movement. You have 3-4 heroes that can still move this turn and take over a distant hive. You have 3 AA and a royal griffin and you are equipped with cape of velocity. Main should end turn carrying the griffin only, as 11 speed already gives you the maximum movement bonus for the next turn. With a weak hero you will need the extra AA for fighting the hive.
Wrong. Speed bonuses do not give more speed. Same is with Sir Mulich. Exception is creature specialists, wich gives more speed.
Its interesting though, that terrain gives speed bonus of +1, wich gives you more movement. So if you are on grass - better sleep with royal griffins instead of serpent fly. If you are on dirt - better sleep with Dread Knight, instead of efreets.
Quote:
3. On maps with desert zone you will be able to do considerably more fights in the T-zone due to pathfinding negating the 75% penalty.
In sand the penalty is 50%. And the pathfind negates all of it - 100%
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted June 08, 2008 09:34 AM |
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Always look several days ahead and know what resources you need to build your town. Every step your scouts take is important. Their job is to see everything that's in your area, but it's especially important to find the resources that you need to build your town. If you need crystal to build Pegasus or Behemoth, make sure you find it. If it's guarded, make sure you have enough army and movement to get it.
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fank0
Known Hero
There are no limits
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posted June 08, 2008 12:43 PM |
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Liophy is right about the speed artifacts. They DO NOT increase your movement on the map. Creature speciality heroes DO increase your map movement.
He is also right about the desert movement penalty. It is 50%, not 75% as i have always thought it was.
My apologies for posting misleading information.
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durell
Adventuring Hero
Sub-n00b
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posted June 08, 2008 01:53 PM |
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Quote:
Liophy is right about the speed artifacts. They DO NOT increase your movement on the map. Creature speciality heroes DO increase your map movement.
He is also right about the desert movement penalty. It is 50%, not 75% as i have always thought it was.
My apologies for posting misleading information.
Some excellent tips posted FankO exactly what i was hoping for when i created this thread,no apology needed man,the good out weighs the bad 
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Stars are just pin holes in the curtain of night.
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted June 08, 2008 05:54 PM |
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"Its interesting though, that terrain gives speed bonus of +1, wich gives you more movement."
This terrain speedbonus of +1 does not give you more movement.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted June 09, 2008 11:13 AM |
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Quote:
This terrain speedbonus of +1 does not give you more movement.
That was exactly what i thought aswell... before i tested it
Test made on Heroes III Complete.
Test scenario: Cobblestone road, straight road, horizontal.Terrain - grass.
2 heroes, 1 with royal griffin, 1 with serpent fly.
Result: hero with royal griffin makes 1 step further on the cobblestone road (50 movement points).
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted June 09, 2008 12:55 PM |
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Edited by maretti at 13:03, 09 Jun 2008.
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I tested it aswell with wolfs and gargs on snow and with pikes and gnolls on grass. They had the same movement. If you got some movementbonus you would get more that 1 step on the fastest road so I suggest you make the test again.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted June 09, 2008 01:03 PM |
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Edited by liophy at 13:12, 09 Jun 2008.
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I am at work now, but at the evening i will post screens. Maybe we have different version of heroes?
BTW, stupid question but still... did your heroes walk over cobblestone roads, horizontaly?
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted June 09, 2008 01:06 PM |
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Edited by maretti at 13:07, 09 Jun 2008.
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I have heroes complete.
Quote:
BTW, stupid question but still... did your heroes walk over cobblestone roads, horizontaly?
Yes.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted June 09, 2008 01:12 PM |
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Edited by liophy at 13:13, 09 Jun 2008.
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I prefer to continue the discussion in the evening, when i will be abble to test the things again.
But one probable reason could be if your roads is Gravel, not cobblestone. They look the same, so its easy to confuse them.
On gravel you need 75 MP, and the difference between speed 4 and 5 is 70 MP, so its not enough and it will look like the same.
Quote:
If you got some movementbonus you would get more that 1 step on the fastest road so I suggest you make the test again.
WRONG. The difference between speed 10 and speed 9 is 60 movement points. 1 step horizontaly on cobblestone cost 50 MP.
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted June 09, 2008 02:45 PM |
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Gravel and cobblestone do not look alike, not acording to my editor anyway. So there shouldnt be any confusion there.
I checked how much movement 1 speed gives you more on cobblestone and I realize its only 1. So at least we agree on that.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted June 09, 2008 05:19 PM |
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OK, my mistake. I made the test again and i am wrong.
I did not noticed, that i made the test with eldric, so the royal griffins took 1 step further because of the speciallity, not the terrain.
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