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| Thread: Stronghold Strategy Guide |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Zwok
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 02, 2008 09:25 PM |
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Edited by Zwok at 19:32, 03 Jul 2008.
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Stronghold Strategy Guide
The guide still isn’t completely finished, at least I edited it! Made so many dumb mistakes yesterday, guess because I was sleepy.
A little introduction, the reason I wrote this guide is because Tactical/Strategy games are very close to me. I might not be an experienced HoMM player, in fact I’m playing less then a month. I have about 4 years of DotA gaming experience, it isn’t related to HoMM but it involves lots and lots of Strategy and Planning.
Why Stronghold? Among many other factions whom are focused on one magic school and rely mostly on certain units, Stronghold has a huge variety for players to explore. Yes, stronghold lacks magic and great racial bonuses such as the Mini-Artifacts, but this is very well compensated by the Rage system. Stronghold is also a great faction for players that don’t like magic and everything related to it.
What is Rage? Rage is like a free buff to all your units, while most factions in order to buff up need to get deep into the Light Magic school, Rage is ‘unit self buff’. Unlike Dwarven runes, Rage is constant and doesn’t reduce your resources. One of the main purposes of Rage is damage reduction, with Expert Blood Rage your units will have a 70% Damage reduction, sweet isn’t it? Unfortunately your units start with very limited amounts of Rage, and it also gets heavily reduced by negative effects, (Such as Fear, Weakness, Getting back on the ATB bar, Confusion, Puppet Master, Blind, Low morale, Getting hit) it also gets reduced if you use Defend or Wait. How to increase Rage? Very simple! All you need to do is: Attack enemy stacks, Curse enemy with creature ability’s, Eat Goblins or get Berserk cast on your units. Most Barbarian Hero skills have to do something with Rage, they either increase it or lower it. I will explain the racial buffs Stronghold units receive later in the units section.
An important thing to understand is that Stronghold is a Might oriented faction, but unlike other Might oriented factions it has better early game against Magic factions due to Shattering magic, high health units and fairly decent Initiative/Damage. Stronghold is very dependant on Morale, a turn lost is a battle lost. Not only does having bad Morale decrease Rage it adds a huge reduction to your overall army power. Stronghold must charge because it has only 1.5 shooters (1.5 because Cyclops is hardly a shooter). Luckily it has easy access to Leadership, +1 Speed Skills/Perks and bonus to Initiative skills.
On to the actual guide.
Heroes:
Kragh
Specialty – The hero can deal a melee attack at the beginning of the combat, before enemy units get a turn. Also all Hero attacks gain +5% damage per level. Most of you will think this is a useless special because you should concentrate on War cries and Hero melee attacks are bad. That is wrong! Kragh is a very powerful Hero especially with Excruciating Strike and Stunning Blow. The thing is at the beginning of combat Kragh stuns enemy Shooters/Casters/Flyers whatever. Moreover Hero damage is fixed damage, the higher level your Hero is the more damage he does. Also Hero damage ignores defense and does actually more damage to higher tier creatures. With this taken in mind Kragh can kill any 2 tier 7 creatures at level 16 with 70% chance (Critical blow chance with Excruciating Strike) using the Powerful Blow ability on any of his units. The tier 7 creature will also go back on the ATB bar. And since Powerful Blow takes only 50% of your heroes Initiative to cast this is absolutely a killer skill to use on your Centaurs early game.
Urghat
Specialty – The Hero has increased movement points by 1% for every 3 levels. Also reduces movement penalty from foreign terrain by 2% for every level of the Hero. To be honest this is absolutely useless, other logistics heroes like Grok and Rutger have more movement points in the beginning which totally compensates the 2% reduction on foreign terrains, and anyways your main hero shouldn’t be running around a lot, use a henchman to flag mines and pick up loot!
Garuna
Specialty – Each killed enemy stack (Summoned troops, too) increase the Attack of all creatures by +1 for every 6 levels of the Hero. I wouldn’t say this is a good skill, moreover Garuna starts with Archery and since only your Centaurs can be considered as Archers this is bad. Although you do need Archery to access Triple Flaming Ballista, +1 Attack is hardly noticed. Of course if you manage to level Garuna to level 24 or higher before encountering your enemy this can be very useful. But don’t count on it
Gorshak
Specialty – Slayers and there upgrades gain +1 to Attack and Defense for every two levels of the Hero. As explained to me by members of this forum, this Specialty is good with Executioners. The problem is you need a good amount of Rage for them, Aura of Swiftness and not get them dead before they have a turn. With maximum rage they can do up to 3 hits in one turn which is quite neat. Although this Hero has bad creeping and you would need to build Slayer dwelling early in the game which might be problematic.
Shak’Karukat
Specialty – Wyverns and there upgrades in Hero’s army gain +2 to their Hit Points for every level of the Hero. This is a great Hero, I know a lot of people will say his ability is useless but he has Vitality at level 1 which helps creeping immensely. Should you get a Ballista and Wyverns and you don’t need to deploy any units while creeping. A 150+ hp wyvern can just stand back and defend while your Ballista does the creeping. Although little use for his specialty in early game, if you manage to find a +2 hp ring and the set that adds +2 to hp your goblins will have 13 HP each. That’s 325 HP per week unit (No castle or junk pile included), also devouring goblins with 13 HP will help a lot if you use Storm Shamans which I will explain later. Although getting Wyverns or Paokais might extend the amount of time you need to build a Castle and Cyclops dwelling this could be a bad Hero. Probably good only on large maps where the creeping won’t end before you build a Wyvern dwelling. Although if you need an excellent tank unit you can use this Hero and not build the Slayer dwelling. Another problem is Paokais and Wyverns don’t earn rage. I would call this Hero the Opposite of Gorshak 
Haggash
Specialty – Centaurs and there upgrades gain +1 to their attack and defense for every two levels of the Hero. Moreover they get +1% to starting initiative. One of the best early game Hero’s in HoMM due to the +% to Initiative and Attack this makes Centaurs one of the best (if not the best) tier 2 units available. It’s like having Douglas with +1% to initiative for archers, well not exactly but you get the point 
Telsek
Specialty – Warriors and there upgrades gain +1 to their attack and defense for every two levels of the Hero. I should call him the most underestimated Stronghold Hero, his special does MIRACLES in late game. With enough +Attack stat boosts some Attack/Damage Artifacts Maulers can destroy ANYTHING they encounter. If you choose Maulers you will need to increase there Rage as fast as possible, because they will get targeted first and die soon. If you can get Rage level 3 you will basically get a no retaliation double hitting unit (No retaliation because of there stunning blow which triggers often) With Soldier’s Luck this means you have extremely high chance to stun your opponent and do a double attack with crazy damage.
In other words a superb Hero on certain maps, Maulers can win the game for you if you manage to save a lot of them. You could choose Warmongers instead of Maulers then you will get the best possible tier 3 tank you could ever imagine. They get unlimited retaliation and increased retaliation damage + provoke ability. The enemy will think thrice before touching this guy, warmongers can be a good alternative to Wyvern deploying tactics in early game. You put these guys and defend once the enemy comes close, just increase there rage first with Blood Call.
Kilghan
Specialty – The number of Goblins in the hero’s army increases weekly by an amount equal to the Hero’s level. Also, the Goblins chance to betray the hero will be reduced by 1% per hero level. This is a useless Hero in my opinion, his special is absolutely worthless although he starts with Leadership if that’s what you desperately need. I actually tried playing with this guy and got him Goblin Support, Battle frenzy, Vitality, Defend Us All to increase the amount of Goblins and Goblin efficiency and even then he failed drastically!
Units
I will only list the upgraded units and there Rage bonuses!
Trappers – Very decent unit for early creeping against walkers, even though the chance to capture a unit in his trap is very low (when splitting them) even a low 10-25% chance can save you. I remember how I killed 13 Wraiths with 30 trappers and some centaurs, don’t remember how much. I would prefer them over goblin Witch Doctors because of there higher health, which means its better to be sacrificed by Shamans. Although they have less damage and speed, you need these guys to survive because in large amounts they shouldn’t be underestimated.
Rage Bonus: +2 to health; +3 to attack, wounding; no retaliation
Goblin Witch Doctors – There special ability NEVER helped me, I don’t know how it will work for you guys but this is a very bad unit for me. Less defense, health initiative then trappers and a useless ability makes me want to forget them. If you somehow get them a lot of rage there cursing and cleansing can be threatening to light magic enemies, not only could it cleanse a positive effect it can also curse the unit rendering it useless This is a must unit against enemies that get strong Destruction/Dark magic. Even though the ability didn’t save me even once this can change the combat outcome drastically if it works.
Rage Bonus: +2 to health; Cursing and Cleansing; Magic damage, no retaliation.
Centaur Nomads – First of all both Centaurs have less Initiative then the regular ones, if you need Initiative then stick with un-upgraded ones for some time. Nomads have higher damage then Marauders but are worse in everything else, there maneuver ability usually makes them run right into the enemy which makes me upset. If you get enough Rage on Nomads they will get accuracy and 13 base initiatives with a chieftain standing next to them, this means it becomes the best level 2 Archer you could wish for. Nomads are better for creeping but worse vs. Human opponents.
Rage Bonus: +6 attack; +2 initiative; accuracy
Centaur Marauders – More Health, Speed, Defense, and no reduction to damage in close combat makes them favored more then Nomads. Even if the enemy casts Mass Evasion or Confusion this unit sure won’t be useless.
Rage Bonus: +6 attack; +2 initiative; accuracy
Maulers – Great units, especially if you get Soldiers Luck and get them some Rage. Only problem is low Health and Defense, so its wise to attack with them only at Rage level 3 or after there’s No Retaliation on the enemy unit. With Telsek these guys turn into Monsters.
Rage Bonus: +2 speed, +5 health; +3 damage; Stunning Blow
Warmongers – Highly defensive unit, only problem is using Defense with Stronghold units decreases there Rage. The Provoke ability rarely triggers  I don’t remember it saving me, although the increased Retaliation damage makes the enemy think thrice before attacking them. If you have tactics and put them in front of your Centaurs this can cause the enemy lots of trouble, especially if his main rushing units are large size. With enough Rage (And getting Rage with these guys isn’t hard) they get Unlimited Retaliation, what can be better? Usually this is the last unit on the battlefield and the enemy will have lots of trouble killing it, because it has allot of rage by then.
Rage Bonus: +8 health; unlimited retaliation; +12 defense
Wind Shamans - I think these units deserve a medal for the best tier 4 unit there ever will be! Ok lets imagine you somehow got 2 Sar Issus parts, you enter a battle with some good +Rage Skills/Perks preferably you get Ultimate but that’s not a must. Your Wind Shaman can cast chain lightning without devouring a Goblin due to 2 Sar Issus parts, 100 wind shamans do 3135 Chain Lightning damage! Not only do they do 3135 damage but they also have 14 Initiative! Please show me any other Spell caster with 14 initiative and 3135 damage Chain Lightning Even if you don’t get Sar Issus parts you can always get Vitality or + Hp artifacts to gain more mana from devouring Trappers, your damage will still be very impressive. These units will NOT win the game for you, and it’s dangerous to use them against Magic Mirror. I suggest using these guys against might oriented factions and only if you know there will be use for there Chain Lightning.
Rage Bonus: +2 Initiative; +8 health, doubled Spell Power; quadruple Spell Power
Earth Shamans – Another unit that deserves a medal for best tier 4 unit there ever will be! Even with Level 1 Rage bonus you gain +3 to Initiative, this means 11 Damage, 10 Attack, 15 Initiative unit at the start of combat. But wait you also get Cursing Strike and No Retaliation if the enemy is slowed! If I’m not mistaken one of the random Cursing Strike effects is Slow and the Shaman can cast Slow. Excellent unit, I would choose Wind Shaman if I get Sar Issus parts and Earth Shaman if I need another strong melee attacker (Wind shaman vs. Might factions or Archer factions and Earth vs. Melee Factions, Magic factions)
Rage Bonus: +3 Initiative; +8 health; +15 defense
Executioners – I’m not experienced with these units but seems that they are better attackers then the Chieftains. With enough rage they can do 3 attacks in a single turn which is quite nice. I suggest getting them Aura of Speed, even though with Rage bonus 1 they have 8 Speed which is enough to attack a large enemy unit on turn one you might not predict where that large unit will be standing.
Rage Bonus: +1 speed, +3 attack; +10 health; Double attack
Chieftains – More base Damage, Health, Initiation, then executioners. With stacks of 25-50 Chieftains you can force your Cyclops to make very often turns. Buff up these guys with Shamans and they have crazy initiation and double attack, although getting Rage level 3 isn’t easy with them. It’s wise to place them near a Shaman, a Centaur, and a Cyclops. Although if you don’t have tactics just place them between a Cyclops and Centaur. Don’t just use chiefs command all the time, as soon as your Cyclops advances your Chieftains must advance too.
Rage Bonus: +1 speed, +2 Initiative; +12 health; Double attack
Dark Wyverns – The main use of these units is to intercept enemy shooters or anything that’s deadly and can’t be accessed by your Cyclops quickly. They are also great for neutral creeping if you have a Ballista or a hero like Kragh. With Shak’Kurat they become tanks that aren’t any worse then Treants. The problem is getting them early game can be the worse mistake you ever made and they don’t have rage which means no damage reduction. Wyverns are good but don’t count on them when rushing. Just stick with Cyclops and Slayers.
No rage bonus.
Paokais – It’s a tank… What else can I say? It’s just a flying tank that can be useful on certain terrains to block fast units. In the end of the battle when you only have Paokais and Warmongers left, use there corpse eating ability. If you’re playing vs. Academy or Necropolis try to put these on dead corpses of strong enemy units, this will prevent Resurrection.
No rage bonus.
Free Cyclops – With the first Rage bonus these monsters get higher minimum damage then some other tier 7s maximum damage is, they can also hit multiple targets although this is more of a problem then a bonus (Because you will often kill your own units). This guy is also great for letting your units in the castle gate during a siege. Aura of fear and Fear gives him almost no retaliation if you know how to use this. Problems Bad speed, Bad Initiative – Solved with Chieftains, Aura of Swiftness and Battle Roar war cry.
Rage bonus: +5 damage; Aura of fear; Fear
Blood Eyed Cyclops – In my opinion this guy is better then the Free Cyclops, you gain a curse attack and his attacks will less likely hit your own units. Higher speed, initiative makes this Cyclops get at least a one turn bonus in terms of rushing on the battlefield. With all 3 rage bonuses and the -3 luck attack you won’t be bothered by enemy’s retaliation a lot 
Oh and don’t underestimate devouring goblins!
Rage bonus: +5 damage; Aura of fear; Fear
War cries:
(My game isn’t translated to English, so I’m not quite sure how the skill names should be properly translated, correct me if I’m wrong)
Rallying War cry: Increases Morale of all Hero’s units by 1 + Hero level/8, Also adds +20 rage.This War cry should only be used if for some reason your Morale in the beginning of the battle is 0 or less, otherwise I suggest using other War cries and using this only when your in need. This is a must War cry if you’re planning on getting Swift Mind or something else instead of Leadership.
Blood Call: The chosen unit receives extra rage points depending on Hero’s level, +20 rage points to all units and the target receives 10*Hero_Level extra rage points. This ability can be just as useful as useless, learn to use it in the right moment and it can drastically change the battle. Try to see how many Rage points the targeted unit will get and then think if you need the corresponding Rage bonus. Use this on Centaurs in the beginning of combat so they get Accuracy quick, this will force enemy hero to focus on your Centaurs, which will be guarded by Warmongers. This is an excellent moment for your Cyclops to rush
Chief’s Command: The Hero attacks a stack of friendly units, dealing full damage (Stunning blow and Excruciating strike will also trigger) after this the attacked stack gets extra Rage points, also it will move forward on the ATB bar. +30 Rage points to all units, the targeted stack moves on the ATB bar for 0,1+0,02*Hero_Level points and gets +30 Rage. In other words if your Hero is level 20 the Unit will get a +0,5 bonus on the ATB bar, which is a lot. The problem is your units die and lose Rage points when attacked. Never use this with Kragh on a Cyclops 
The Chieftain unit has the exact same ability but doesn’t do as much damage and moves the target even farther on the ATB bar (Depending on stack size), I suggest you use the Chieftains skill.
Fearsome Roar: The Hero has a chance to frighten the targeted enemy stack, the chance depends on the Heroes level and amount of units in the stack. All friendly units will receive +30 Rage points. The effect of this skill is the same as Nightmares Fear attack. The chance to frighten a target is 50%+(Hero_Level-Target_Level)*5%. This means that a level 17 Hero can frighten any unit, that doesn’t have immunity to Fear. Use this when you know the enemy unit will obliterate you. Fear can help a lot or not help at all just as Blood Call. Only practice will let you learn how and when to use it. Fearing in the begging of combat can force enemy shooters to run in the open field, which makes them dead on turn 1. A good counter when Sylvan with tactics uses a Unicorn in front of the Archers which leaves them a huge gap to run into the open and die.
Battle Roar: Increases Attack of all units in the Heroes army and there Speed by +1, all units also receive +40 Rage. The bonus to Attack is Hero_Level/2. Use this in the beginning of almost any battle, it will let your Cyclops, Earth shamans and whatever else you have, kill the enemy before it gets a turn
Rage of the Tribe: The selected enemy stack receives Magical damage, which equals to the amount of units in the Heroes army, all units receive +40 Rage. This skill is very useful if you have lots of Goblins, since that’s the highest growth unit you have. Try using this on strong enemy stacks (Tier 7) because it ignores Defense, a good tactic is to use this in the beginning of combat against Titans or on Fallen angels before they use Divine Vengeance… you get the point.
Skills&Perks:
I will list only certain skills that I think are important for Stronghold, also I will demonstrate several skill builds.
Shatter Summoning: This should be mainly used against Academy and Necropolis, because these are the most known Summoning users.
Back to the void: A real Inferno Gating killer also makes sure Academy and Necropolis Heroes that love to Summon Phoenix and Raise Dead will hesitate from doing so.
If you do get Shatter Summoning you might also want to get Fog Veil, although I don’t recommend putting any points here at all, just for Back to the Void if your afraid of Summons. In other words this counters Arcane Shield+Ressurection tactics.
Shatter Destruction: A lot of factions use Destruction, especially Dungeon. I would recommend this against Academy, (Even if they don’t get Destruction there Arch Mages will think thrice before using Fire Ball) Dungeon, Inferno. While taking Shatter Destruction don’t forget to get Fiery Wrath  If you know that there’s an Arcane Library on the map and there’s enough time for the Hero to get Expert Dark I don’t recommend getting Shatter Destruction. Although this is a must Vs. Dungeon in any case, Mana Burst shouldn’t be underestimated Vs. any Spell casters!
Shatter Dark: An excellent anti Necropolis and Inferno skill, you won’t have to be afraid about Puppet and Berserk a lot after you get this. Corrupted soil is nice if you get it in early game and know for sure you will encounter Dark Magic heroes. I repeat, fear the Arcane Libraries, any faction could get Dark if there is one, because its easy access to strong Dark spells.
Shatter Light: Pretty much a useless skill, no good perks that it might give. Although I recommend getting this vs. Fortress, Fire resistance helps against Armageddon tactics and Shatter Light itself helps against Helmar and such, any faction that likes to use Light Magic will be nearly useless if you have this.
Shout: Getting Distraction is wise if you know that you can encounter a Spell casting hero. You surely don’t want a dungeon hero with Expert Sorcery to obliterate you before you even get to act!
Mighty Shout: this is a very useful skill if you need the Rage for certain Tactics/Maps. Getting an extra +5 levels to War cries would also help having 100% chance to cast Fear at level 12.
Shout of Rage: This skill helped me several times, if you’re not planning to get Ultimate this is a must. Casting Blood Call with this in the beginning of combat on a Cyclops can determine if you win or not.
Attack: This is essential for all Stronghold players, gives access to Tactics, Retribution and Flaming arrows.
Stunning blow: I suggest getting stunning Blow and Excruciating strike only if you are Kragh, or you need the Ultimate.
Retribution: Miracles for Stronghold especially with your + Morale War cry. Having +10 or so Morale with Leadership, War cry and Artifacts = +50% damage. Although getting Leadership might not always be wise. If you’re not getting Leadership forget this.
Defense: A lot of people think Defense is bad, well it isn’t although if you’re not sure you will need it take Luck and Leadership before thinking of Defense.
Vitality: Makes a huge difference for your Goblins, with level 3 Rage Goblins are very fearsome warriors. A Witch Doctor can win the fight for you if he has +2 to Health and some +2 to Health Artifacts.
Luck: Luck is very important for every Might Faction, combined with Leadership and Retribution you form an unstoppable force! Luck also helps a lot for Ballista
Soldiers luck: Very good if you’re planning to take Maulers, otherwise not the best thing you can waste your point on.
Leadership: The key bone of any Barbarian build, you most likely will take Empathy or Battle elation + Aura of swiftness. Usually when I play against magic factions I take Aura of Swiftness and Battle Elation, against Might I take Empathy. Although leadership could be near useless. If you know that getting + Morale Artifacts and Morale stat boosts is possible forget about it.
Swift Mind: I’m not experienced with this skill but Elvin says its good so let’s all trust him, ok?
War Machines: Do I even need to explain? Take it if you can and don’t underestimate Healing Tent, its more important then Ballista. It will Resurrect Dead units which is great for creeping and also cleanses curses! Do not take Ballista after week 2, well only begging of week 2 might be ok. Ballista after week 2 means you already finished or will finish creeping soon, and the enemy can just kill it in a single blow. Although getting Tent might still be good even after week 2.
Enlightment: This needs something like a special section, there’s is so many ways to play with Enlightment skill. First of all it will increase your Stats, which is good in a long game and for Ballista users. Secondly you can take Blood Fire, this is a tough decision. If you’re planning on not taking the Ultimate but getting Shout of Rage, Blood fire is very nice. You can get level 3 Rage quickly in the beginning of combat without the Ultimate. Stamina, this is neat if you have a Memory Mentor on the map, take it then Mentor it out Battle lore, I suggest taking this skill on a henchman to transfer War cries efficiently to your main without running back to town. Mentoring unlike Dungeon or Academy or Fortress that has various Armageddon tactics or Sylvan that can create tons of Blade Dancers with Mentoring, you can get Defend Us All and get zillions of Goblins which boosts your Rage of the Tribe damage to heavens. Also you can Mentor lots of Barbarians to take Ballista + Luck which would allow them to clear weak neutrals and capture neutral castles. That speeds up the game a lot. Unlike other factions that gain spells from spell shrines, you get Experience! With Mentoring you can make use of this and boost your Experience even farther making several strong Heroes. Alas by the time you get Mentoring you will skip too many useful skills and skill points. I suggest getting basic Enlightment with Blood fire and Shout of Rage quickly.
Memory of Our Blood: Simple, it gives you Rage in the beginning of Combat. Take it you won’t regret!
Powerful Blow: Take this only as a prerequisite for something or if you’re Kragh, Or if you have trouble early creeping.
Might Over Magic: This makes you shine against destruction based factions.
Skill Builds-
Most common is:
Expert Blood Rage
Expert Leadership – Aura of Swiftness, Battle Elation
Expert Luck – Dead Man’s Curse
Expert War Machines – Triple ballista, Tent (Only if you get ballista on week 1 or beginning of week 2)
Expert Attack – Tactics, Flaming arrows
Logistics – Swift Mind.
That’s a no brainer skill build, get a ballista and some luck first, then concentrate on logistics, attack.
Mentoring build (What I like on big poor maps)
Expert Blood Rage
Basic War Machines – Tent, (Triple ballista, not necessary though)
Expert Enlightment – Mentoring or Basic Enlightment Blood fire
Expert Leadership – Empathy
Expert Attack – Retribution, Tactics
Logistics – Swift Mind.
Skak’Kurakat build (Fun to play with, nothing serious)
Expert defense – Defend us all, Evasion
Advanced attack – Battle frenzy, Tactics (Or basic with just frenzy)
Expert Leadership – Aura of Swiftness, Battle elation (Or just Aura of Swiftness)
Basic War machines – Tent
Expert Shout – Mighty Shout
Expert Blood Rage
A skill build that involves you having + Morale Artifacts and +Morale stat boosts. (Very deadly in good hands)
Expert Blood Rage
Logistics – Swift Mind
Expert / Basic Shout – Mighty Shout / Shout of Rage
Luck – Dead Man’s Curse
A Shatter depending on your Map/Enemy, Tactics + Battle frenzy if you feel that you don’t need a Shatter.
Basic Enlightment - Blood fire
Strategy:
A lot depends on the map and opposite faction, If you don’t know what your enemy is going to do I suggest getting Haggash. Day one make a new Hero and build tier 1 dwelling (If it’s a level 1 town then just a Tavern and buy Hero) use your second hero to bring Centaurs or Goblins (If there’s a dwelling on that map) First get Lumber, Ore and Sulfur mines. This should be easy with Haggash. When encountering any walkers even fast walkers like Wind Dancers put 4 stacks of 1 Goblin near Centaurs when they get a turn cover the Centaurs in a box, the large stack of Goblins must be behind so it won’t be immediately attacked by the walker. After the walker kills one Goblin you either should be able to finish him or absorb his retaliation with another small stack of Goblins. Continue creeping like that till you get a Ballista or you decide to take Wyverns or you find Sar Issus parts for your Shammy. If none of that occurs get Warmongers and put them near Centaurs, keep creeping and quickly build Cyclops dwelling + Castle. While creeping split Shamans in small stacks and cast Haste/Slow while absorbing the attacks with 1 stack Goblins. If you didn’t lose any Centaurs by this point you should be able to kill the enemy quick enough before he manages to come close. If you can get War Machines early game, do it. If you get a choice between Ballista and Tent on end of week 1 or start of week 2 pick the Tent. After week 2, your Ballista isn’t as good as a Tent and its unknown if you get a Triple Ballista perk or Flaming arrows any time soon.
Your main goal is to get Cyclops as fast as possible, once you get Cyclops and Executioners or Slayers you can rush, but then everything depends on the map and faction you play against.
Wyvern Tactics: If you’re playing on a map with very strong neutrals guarding something you need, you get Ballista as soon as possible and a Wyvern dwelling. Deploy the wyverns and let them defend while your Ballista does the work. You will delay getting Cyclops and Executioners but the reward you might get is more useful. Wyvern + Warmonger tactics might also help you defeat Dragon Utopia quick, just don’t count on it a lot 
If the enemy neutrals are large creatures its wise to deploy lots of stacks of 1 Goblins and a Centaur. The goblins must stand in boxes 1 cell away from each other, this will prevent the large creature from reaching the Centaurs.
Never forget that spell shrines give Experience to Stronghold, even if you don’t get Mentoring visiting spell shrines and Dolmens, this might give your Henchman a significant boost to there levels. If you’re lucky you will even get Defend Us all easily like this
Vs. certain factions.
Vs. Dungeon
All you need to do is get Shatter Destruction and Fiery Wrath or Mana Burst, and get Might over Magic. If the dungeon hero uses 7 stacks of Stalkers you need to rush to his side of the battle field as soon as possible, and don’t put your units close to each other to prevent getting more damage from AoE spells. If the enemy hero doesn’t rush you first and there’s an Arcane Library on the map its possible he skipped Elemental Chains and everything related to that and is getting Dark Magic. This is a lot tougher then a no brainer Destruction Dungeon, you should get Tent to clear Curses and get Swift Mind asap.
Vs. Academy
You never know what Academy will get, but you should be afraid of Dark and Summoning more then of Destruction. It’s wise to get Back to the Void to prevent Resurrection tactics and Swift Mind quickly. You should rush Academy at all costs, even though Might factions get stronger then Magic factions in later game the Academy Hero can get Dark + Light + Mini Artifacts and you won’t have a chance to defeat him. Never underestimate an Academy Hero with Magnetic Golems and Armageddon tactics. This can cause a lot of problems if you took shatter Dark or Summoning although Shatter Light+Fire resistance could help. Actually if your afraid of taking the wrong Shatter against Academy stick to Might over Magic, forget about War Machines in case the Academy Hero has Destruction or even Remote Control O_o. Luck of the Barbarian and Resistance can be tempting but then again if he goes Summoning you will be doomed, a wise thing to do is get Cyclops and Earth shamans quick and rush, rush, rush. Some good perks to get are Distraction and Swift Mind but then again in certain cases this can mean you’re doomed. Something I learned when playing against Academy is to place your Centaur near some obstacle with Tactics. You should put Goblins and Warmongers in front of the Centaur and a Cyclops at the side. This will guarantee the enemy won’t use an Arcane Crystal, but this should threaten you, if he use a Blade Barrier. On the other hand since your Goblins are busy with Dampening Magic and Warmongers are defending the Cents anyway that shouldn’t be a great problem.
Vs. Sylvan
Rush them! No I’m not joking, if you manage to rush them Sylvan might get surprised and won’t even understand what’s going on, after all you get a tier 2 shooter while they have only tier 3. Try to get Fear My Roar quickly or use Kragh hero. Getting a Tent is essential vs. Sylvan, once there Pixies and Blade dancers do there first hit (which will be absorbed by Rage hopefully) they aren’t a threat anymore, if you get lucky with fearing the Arcane Archers or Master Hunters you have a good chance. Another good thing to do is rushing to the Sylvan Castle while there main hero is away. Even if the Sylvan Hero gets your castle the Stronghold Creatures aren’t of any use to Sylvan. Of course using Elves with Orcs will lover morale but its better then nothing 
If the Sylvan Hero decides to get Dark and visit an Arcane Library, you must try to predict this and rush him before he gets Rain of Arrows and Expert dark. Also try to get something to lower there Initiative like a Staff of the Netherworld, but that’s hard to get
Vs. Necropolis
Now this can be easy or hard depending on your luck.
If the Necropolis opponent is smart he will place 2 stacks of Skeleton Warriors near the Archers (early game rush) and will keep Resurrecting the Archer Skeletons while blocking them with Ghosts, Zombies. Ghosts can deal damage and absorb your unit’s retaliation. Your Goblins will be constantly running away because of Cowardice (This is Why I recommend witch doctors and use dampen magic all the time), and the Skeleton Archers that the Necropolis Hero raised are stronger then your Centaurs. Try not to let him rush you before you have Shatter Summoning and Back to the Void. Most Necromancer Heroes that plan an early rush have Expert Summoning but not Expert Dark, keep this in mind Also use Witch Doctors, replaying the same battle against Necropolis can have very different results.
Vs. Inferno
Two words: Rush them. As fast as possible, Kragh or Haggash is what you should use here. The best chance is getting Kragh as main and buying Haggash from the Tavern just for the Centaurs. Getting a Ballista is nice but not important, focus on attack and Leadership and grab + Luck + Morale boosts before attacking the Inferno. Should be able to defeat him on beginning of week 3 or so if the map doesn’t have a Guardian, or weak Guardian.
Vs. Haven
Its an equal fight based on luck, on a small map where you can rush everything will depend on who has the Ballista and who’s Morale works more often. I suggest getting Telsek for this because you shouldn’t be coming close to the enemy hero because of his shooters that ignore Defense, however if he gets Paladins really soon Telsek will save your butt. Because of your Warmongers which wont let the Paladins do incredible damage and kill your Centaurs quickly enough. You should focus on killing / Fearing Archangels and Shooters. The problem is, against Barbarians Haven can get Fallen Angels and the Renegade Paladins (whatever there called  this means you shouldn’t place Warmongers right in front of the Centaurs and you should kill the Fallen Angels quick before they Divine Vengeance you. Of course Shatter Light can change a lot, but don’t underestimate defense against Haven.
Vs. Fortress
The best you can hope is that Fortress will take his main Hero Hilmar or Svea, all you need is Shatter Light + Fire resistance or Shatter Destruction. However if your enemy takes Ingvar this can be tough. If he’s smart he will have a lot of Runes and probably have Mentoring and high Defense. You can’t rush them because of the extra Reinforcements in there Castle. You could technically on a small map kill the enemy Hero grab some Mines and cower back to your Town. Against Ingvar take Shatter Light with Corrupt Light, take Dead’s Mans Curse and Blood fire + Shout of Rage. You have creeping advantage and the advantage of having Shamans which can Slow/Haste. I really doubt the Fortress hero will buy rune Patriarchs because of there high costs.
Duel Heroes:
A little intro, the regular Barbarian Duel Heroes SUCK, terribly! They have awkward skills that barely help them at all. There’s no way to compare them to Galib or Karli.
Garuna – This hero has 50% Magic Resistance and Shatter Light. Although this barely helps her. The only heroes I can think of that Garuna might be used against is Vittorio, but even then don’t count on her. Excruciating strike with Magic Resistance and Shatter Light… doesn’t synergize at all. If she had Shatter Destruction this would be completely different though. The problem is Magic Resistance doesn’t help against Light Users and Shatter Light doesn’t help against Dark/Destruction users. And Excruciating strike with Stunning Blow doesn’t help her at all honestly 
Shak’Kurakat – Tankish duel Hero, Last stand and Tent Synergizes well with the Paokais and Wyverns. Although I really don’t understand what’s the point of his -1 Morale +3 spell power Artifact. You could use this this guy against Heroes with Basic/Advanced Dark and Destructive magic like Erin and also good against Anwen. Nothing really complicated about this Hero, he has no Centaurs = No ranged power so your forced to rush. Your Maulers and Wind Shamans will probably instantly die. Don’t use him against Summoners because even something like a Wasp Hive can make your Wyverns lose too many turns.
Haggesh – Haggesh has Blood fire and a Unicorn Bow, what the hell? Centaurs gain no ranged penalty anyway and it’s easy to get them to level 3 Rage. Why unicorn bow then? Anyway use her Vs. Razzak or Ravvena. No particular use, just shoot till your Centaurs get killed (which happens quickly) and then rush with what you have left.
I’m actually disappointed a lot in the Barbarian Duel Heroes, I suggest not to use them unless you make custom ones which is a different story 
Build Order.
All build plans are based on you having a level 1 town, if the map you’re playing starts with a higher level town just try to build the first building in the build plan, if you already have it then check the second and so on.
The buildings you will build depends on what difficulty you play on, If you play Heroic or a map with poor resources try to save money incase you have to build Capitol or Castle. It is wise to only buy Goblin Trappers and Un-Upgraded Centaurs if you need money, its enough to creep safely.
Week one: Tavern, Goblin dwelling, Centaur Dwelling, Upgrade Goblin Dwelling, Fort, Citadel, Junk Pile.
Week two: Town Hall, City Hall, Warrior Dwelling, Shaman Dwelling, Slayer dwelling* or Skull Pile if you started with level 3 city, Skull pile for level 2 city; Castle for level 3 city; Upgraded Slayer Dwelling for level 1 city**, Castle for level 2 City; Cyclops Dwelling for level 3 city***; Upgraded Centaur Dwelling for level 1 city****.
Week three: Everything depends on what you’re going to do, rush or keep neutral creeping. Generally I suggest building the Capitol but if you’re planning to rush on week 3 build Cyclops Dwelling if you didn’t before and upgrade it.
*If you feel that you won’t have enough money for the Castle, don’t build the Slayer dwelling or try to find as much Chests as possible, or sell an Artifact. Also you might want to build Hall of Trials and upgrade it instead of the Slayer dwelling, with a Hall of Trials you should delay your rush to week 4 day 1 but this means you don’t have to build a castle right away.
**What you build varies with the Hero you’re playing, generally I suggest upgrading the Slayer Dwelling but if you are Telsek upgrade the Warrior Dwelling, if you are Haggash upgrade the Centaur Dwelling. If you don’t need upgraded units at this point Build/Upgrade the Hall of Trials.
***If you didn’t have enough money for the Castle before and now you need to choose between Cyclops Dwelling or Castle – pick the Castle only if you have Slayer Dwelling or Wyvern + Shaman Dwellings.
****Same as ** although if you are Haggash and already built the Centaur Dwelling I suggest you upgrade Hall of Trials.
The newbie Stronghold Multiplayer Walkthrough.
This is a newbie “Walkthrough” that will explain how most games should be played. It is meant for Newbie’s and players with average or below average skill, because more experienced players will examine the map they are playing in detail and will make the right decisions on what and how to do.
First you pick a Hero, if you have trouble with Stronghold or you are new to Stronghold pick Haggash. Usually 3 weeks will be creeping, so try to forget you have an opponent at this point.
Check the Build Order to see what you should build, on week 2 day 5 take Hall of Trials instead of Slayer Dwelling and upgrade it to level 2. Buy a Hero from the Tavern and use it to bring your main Hero units from a nearby Dwelling. Capture a Lumber mine and an Ore mine on day one if it’s possible. Pick Experience from chests at least the first 2-3 days. After getting the Lumber and Ore mine use your second Hero to bring Goblins from the town (If you didn’t have the Goblin Dwelling on day 1, otherwise bring Centaurs). While creeping you should split Goblins into 5 stacks and keep one stack of Centaurs. There should be 4 stacks of 1 Goblin and one big stack with all the Goblins you have left. The 4 stacks of 1 should cover the Centaur in a box, since you don’t have Tactics from the beginning you should move the goblins into place. The strongest Goblin stack should be behind all the other Goblin stacks and still near the Centaur, this usually prevents it from being attacked. If there is only one neutral stack or two you can use 2 Goblins, one for retaliation absorbing and the other for attacking. After the neutral enemy kills one of your 1 Goblin stacks either finish it off with the Centaur or use another 1 Goblin stack to absorb retaliation and attack with your main Goblin stack. Once you have fresh reinforcements brought to you by the Henchman seek any Watermills and Windmills you should visit them every week, if there is none find a Mercury Mine and flag it. After this, seek Experience Dolmens, Spell Shrines and Witch Huts visit them all with both your main Hero and the Henchman. By this time it should be week 2. Buy a new Hero from the town and bring more reinforcements then grab a Crystal Mine. If you need money try to find some Artifacts, if the Artifacts are useless for you, sell them. Kill any neutrals that won’t harm you and capture a neutral town if there is one on the map. By the time it's week 3 you should be ready to attack the enemy (If there’s no strong Guardian on the map). Before attacking the enemy Hero you should always visit +Luck/Morale boosters, that helps a lot. Of course every map has its own tactics, on some maps you need to rush to the middle or to some high level creature Dwellings. Other maps have strong guardians or specific places that are rich with resources. But as I said this is a newbie walkthrough and just gives some general info what to do!
Advanced Tactics
This is still under construction, will be finished tomorrow perhaps.
Picking the right Shatter.
Many of you might be confused on which shatter to pick, since any faction can choose any magic to be unpredictable. First let’s talk about maps without Arcane Libraries and Neutral Towns that are already upgraded to some point.
Fortress will pick Destruction with Ignite and Light with Master of Abjuration and Master of Wrath most likely. I suggest taking Shatter Destruction with Mana burst because this will heavily cripple the fortress Hero and his units. This prevents Ignite+Mass Firewall tactics and Armageddon tactics. Taking more then Basic Shatter Light can be a big mistake, because spells like Stone skin, Haste, Cleansing etc. are level 1-3 spell and Basic Shatter Light will cripple those spells. The Reason I think getting Advanced Shatter Destruction is more important then getting Advanced Shatter Light is because light doesn’t offer good perks, while Shatter Destruction gives Mana Burst which can damage allot of the Fortress units. If the Fortress hero has the Tan's that do fire damage and rune patriarchs take Resist fire instead of Corrupt Light.
Dungeon will instantly pick Destruction but since they know Barbarians have shatters they might: A) Propose you won’t get the Shatter Destruction skill due to unavailability (Which could happen and that’s bad) B) Get expert dark. If the dungeon Hero is Sinithar or Eruina instantly get shatter destruction. If it is Lethos or Yrbeth stick to shatter destruction. I suggest getting Advanced Shatter in both occasions, Dungeon is a faction you should rush and it might happen so that they don’t get expert Dark/Destruction or get a bad skill like Deep Freeze while the Hero has Ignite perk or Unholy word. Getting Kragh with Weakening strike can be interesting, but if you get the Shatter Dark perk in early game and you know your opponent will most likely get Dark magic get Corrupted Soil quickly. Of course it could happen that you get Shatter Dark and your enemy has destruction magic, this is a problem. But trust me you rather have a fireball cast on you then vampirism cast on a Red Dragon 
Sylvan doesn’t get any Dark spells in there magic tower often, and since this map doesn’t have Arcane Libraries or upgraded Neutral Towns they will get Summoning with Master of Earth blood, don’t underestimate this okay? And Master of Conjuration. Trust me having lots of landmines on the field and an Arcane Crystal near your Centaur will be very, very bad. Worse then if Sylvan Chose Light Magic, although since Sylvan has Rain of Arrows it will try to use it so usually Sylvan doesn’t get higher then basic or advanced light for the Haste. The best thing to do is get Shatter Light basic and Shatter Summoning Advanced. Oh and also never underestimate Wasp Hives, sometimes losing a turn to kill it even with a Cyclops can be worth it.
Inferno this is simple and predictable. If the enemy is Deleb it will no matter what get triple flaming ballista, and luck. Only after that will it take destruction or dark. But Inferno can be Outcreeped and Outrushed. I don’t suggest shatters against Deleb and focusing on Luck / Leadership to quickly kill the ballista. Grawl will obviously get destruction, Alastor and Jezebeth can be tricky but not very. Even with Sorcery and a good chance to pick any Magic school they can be quickly outrushed. Just don’t take any Shatters except vs. Grawl take Advanced Shatter Destruction and Fiery Wrath.
Haven takes Light and Summoning. Very rarely does Haven take Dark and even if it does you shouldn’t worry way too much. The worse thing to fear against Haven is strong paladins and Angels so get Shatter Light + Corrupt Light.
Academy is the hardest faction to predict. Jhora and Nur can be problematic because Detain and Corrupt will hardly help. Nathir and Faiz will pick predictable magic, don’t worry about that. Lets return to Jhora and Nura, lets think logically what is the most fearsome that could happen to you against Academy? #1 Armageddon with magnetic golems, #2 Summoning with master of conjuration and mark of the wizard. Why didn’t I add Dark there? Well usually Academies units aren’t that great during early game and Dark + Light is usually something Academy gets only if they plan to stay longer then 3 weeks  On the other hand they Have Library which can be there path to easy Puppet and Berserk, and Divine Guidance. I suggest Advanced Shatter Destruction with Fiery Wrath or Mana burst, of course you don’t know if they will use destruction but at least Mana burst and Fiery Wrath helps 100% (Side note: Actually Academies Spell Power isn’t that godly, but then can spam spells over and over and over, and Mark of the Wizard multiplies there damage anyways, don’t underestimate any of this) and Shatter summoning with Back to the Void. There’s no way to really predict the Shatter against Academy, but do trust me your units are stronger then there’s. Get at least 2 shatters it will be better then putting 2 skill points into a ballista which would be immediately crushed by an Armageddon or something similar.
Picking the Shatter on larger, longer maps and maps with Arcane Libraries.
Under construction, will add tomorrow
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samiekl
Supreme Hero
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posted July 02, 2008 09:40 PM |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 02, 2008 11:20 PM |
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Promising thread  Not bad for a week 2 experience though you have some inaccuracies and I'll admit I was a bit surprised that you started a stronghold thread a few days after the previous one was written.
Some comments.
I'm not so sure that excruciating strike stacks with powerful blow's critical chance.
Gorshak's special bad..? Get real. Besides do you only use order of the chief with your chieftains? The main function is still killing.
Witch Doctors have saved my hide on more than one occasion. Whether they force the enemy caster to spend double mana, weaken his spell or altogether block it - yes it can happen. And if the caster is a necromancer or warlock then he's toast. It's a risk, either they help you or they end up hit by the enemy's spell too.
My typical pick are the marauders but against dark casters a frenzy can devastate your adjacent units. Especially under Haggash. Avoid putting warmongers next to them
The warmonger's taunt has helped me a few times. Coupled with fierce retaliation and their tanky abilities it's pretty fun. I prefer them to maulers that can be weakened before they gather rage plus when the other units lay dead the warmongers will be standing and enraged 
Sky daughters can do that but they usually don't. I guess you could also hope for week of magic or get refined mana but without aid from situational cicumstances they don't do much.
On the choice between chieftain and executioner you are mistaken. Executioners have undoubtedly higher damage since they attack twice and they will DEAL damage, not stay behind.
The chieftains' double attack is distant dream - it will never happen - and even so executioners can get it too that translates into 3 attacks with cleave. Cyclopes with 2 turns in a row are also a distant dream. Yeah maybe if you get 2 stacks of 60 chieftains :rooleyes: Games end week 4-5.
Your foul wyvern comments are off. Intercept shooters than the cyclops can't reach fast? Who cares, the cyclopes can take the heat, add in a few goblins to eat, maybe a warcry and they'll never die. Creeping with upgraded wyverns? Out of touch with reality, for one you don't build them week 2 just because cyclopes with castle are more important and secondly if you do your money is gone. If you build them week 3 when will you upgrade? Creeping will be over long before that.
Paokai blind immunity useless..? You have probably not seen them eat corpses every turn and the opponent frantically trying to stop them. Not to mention they prevent resurrection tactics. But for the most part they are tanks.
Call of blood is the best warcry to use with shout of rage and/or bloodfire. Still good on its own of course.
Fear my roar has a few tricks. If you use it in the beginning when the enemy's units are in the back lines they will charge forward and miss their turn. On the other hand if they have come to you they run back It's almost unfair when used with expert shout.
Horde's anger is another fun warcry, unfortunately it's only useful in the first few rounds because after that the opponent will have weakened your goblin forces.
Shatter destruction I may use vs dungeon but you can do fine even without it. Too much of a gamble vs academy, I wouldn't even consider it. Plus they don't have enough spellpower for you to feel threatened.
Shatter dark is all about knowing the map. If there is an arcane library then the opponent will likely take dark. Yes even if he is fortress or sylvan.
Shatter light is good, it's the only thing that can prevent the opponent from gaining massive initiative/attack/defense bonuses or having superior resurrection skills. And corrupt light is great for those seraphs.
Why does soldier's luck help executioners..?
Leadership is good but not necessary when you have rallying cry and morale arties/locations. Those 6 lvls can be spent elsewhere.
Logistics won't help..? Can't...breathe... You will learn And swift mind is important, firing a warcry before the opponent acts or a unit charges you is priceless.
There's more about warmachines. Beyond week 4 they suck, chances are that the opponent's shooters will kill it on the first round or he will. That is not true against all factions and swift mind can help a lot in preventing this. Also it depends when you get them. If you get them mid week 2 then it's not worth it. At that point you get cyclopes and you don't need the machines as badly anymore.
Enlightenment is cool but not THAT cool. By the time you have it on expert you don't care about the extra xp of the shrines. By the time you get mentoring creeping is over or more than halfway, besides mentored heroes for orcs are not half as useful as destructive kamikaze. Other than that it's usually an instant pick.
To make might over magic SO effective you need 20-30 power It can help you for sure but let's not exaggerate.
About creeping you could read the playing stronghold thread, has some useful info. But I'll insist that you do not need shamans or wyverns. Wyverns would be lovely if you could build them early but..
Vs academy:
Err what exactly do you find easy? Academy tends to use multiple schools so you cannot risk getting a specific shatter other than dark. Because they WILL go for dark and probably summoning or light as well. A mass haste/mass slow with their initiative artifacts gives a superior initiative advantage which can wear out your rage fast. Add a few curses and some summoning obstacles and there you have it. A ballista won't help, saboteurs. Chain lightning is a gamble, magic mirror.
If dungeon rushes and you have no shatter you are dead, period. He'll use 6-7 invisible stalkers and meteor/fireball you to death. Plus you can expect he'll have logistics so running can only help so much. We are talking week 2-3 now.
Sylvan is easy early, a good match later. But should they get ring of speed you may end up toast. Keep an eye out for frenzy imbued rain of arrows
Necropolis is actually a hard and long match. Expect for waves of dark mass spells, puppet, frenzy and phoenix. Early is more about as you said. He may even use destructive if the battle takes place week 2-3. But the witch doctors are unpredictable and may cause him to lose. Remember that early necros have crappy knowledge.
Fortress is another tough match and one getting gradually harder. At least early you have the creeping advantage, later they are powerhouses. Their ballista is crappy don't bother with it. I'd advise improving your might stats and getting rage boosters, there is no telling what you are up against but luck with runes and light is a good probability.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Thanatos
Known Hero
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posted July 02, 2008 11:32 PM |
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I haven't completely read your guide but I completely disagree with your analysis of Gorshak and chiefs and executioners. First, executioners don't deal less damage, in fact, they deal considerably more than chiefs thanks to cleave, which almost always triggers. This also enables the executioners to gain rage almost twice as fast as chiefs since you also gain rage for the extra cleave attack. You are right that at blood rage level 3 chiefs will gain a double attack too, however in my experience you almost never reach rage level 3. Plus, if executioners reach rage level 3 they also gain double attack, with a possible cleave for each normal attack, making for a maximum of 4(!) attacks in a single action.
Also, have you ever thought about sending executioners on a rampage themselves instead of taking chiefs by default and only using them to hasten your cyclops' turn? You can quite easily turn them into 9 speed 16 initiative double attacking killing machines with haste, blood rage level 1 and aura of swiftness.
Lastly, Word of the Chiefs´ damage is completely unaffected by their attack value, it´s always 1 per chieftain, so Gorshak boosting the chieftains attack power won´t have any effect on WotCs damage.
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted July 03, 2008 12:12 AM |
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Quote:
First, executioners don't deal less damage, in fact, they deal considerably more than chiefs thanks to cleave, which almost always triggers.
It always does. The only drawback is that the retaliation takes place before the second attack and given that right at the beginning of a battle Executionners don't have that much Rage the retaliation can hurt quite a bit.
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13 Heroes
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Thanatos
Known Hero
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posted July 03, 2008 01:43 AM |
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Quote:
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First, executioners don't deal less damage, in fact, they deal considerably more than chiefs thanks to cleave, which almost always triggers.
It always does. The only drawback is that the retaliation takes place before the second attack and given that right at the beginning of a battle Executionners don't have that much Rage the retaliation can hurt quite a bit.
It doesn't trigger if the executioners don't kill at least one creature of the stack they're attacking.
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ChaosDragon
Famous Hero
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posted July 03, 2008 02:58 AM |
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Sorry for the offtopic, but a thread like this already exist right? Why not join in that thread?
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Zwok
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 03, 2008 08:18 AM |
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Sorry for the offtopic, but a thread like this already exist right? Why not join in that thread?
Theres like 4 Sylvan and Academy guides threads, so what?
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I haven't completely read your guide but I completely disagree with your analysis of Gorshak and chiefs and executioners. First, executioners don't deal less damage, in fact, they deal considerably more than chiefs thanks to cleave, which almost always triggers. This also enables the executioners to gain rage almost twice as fast as chiefs since you also gain rage for the extra cleave attack. You are right that at blood rage level 3 chiefs will gain a double attack too, however in my experience you almost never reach rage level 3. Plus, if executioners reach rage level 3 they also gain double attack, with a possible cleave for each normal attack, making for a maximum of 4(!) attacks in a single action.
Also, have you ever thought about sending executioners on a rampage themselves instead of taking chiefs by default and only using them to hasten your cyclops' turn? You can quite easily turn them into 9 speed 16 initiative double attacking killing machines with haste, blood rage level 1 and aura of swiftness.
Lastly, Word of the Chiefs´ damage is completely unaffected by their attack value, it´s always 1 per chieftain, so Gorshak boosting the chieftains attack power won´t have any effect on WotCs damage.
Have you ever played against Sylvan or Haven that will Kill/Cripple/Stun your strongest stack on turn 1? And since you would most likely use Gorshak for an Executioner build they will kill them. Moreover if you build upgraded Slayer dwelling early you will miss out the Cyclops and castle. And no I don't use Chieftains only for speeding the Cyclops, it stays near the Cyclops and Centaur just as long as it needs before I see that it must rush. Usually the Chieftain attacks a close target to the Cyclops so it gains some initiative as well. Another problem with the Executioners is that they need Aura of Swiftness to be effective should you not get that perk and your executioners will most likely skip 2 turns and die.
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Promising thread Not bad for a week 2 experience though you have some inaccuracies and I'll admit I was a bit surprised that you started a stronghold thread a few days after the previous one was written.
Some comments.
Thanks, although you posted allot of comments on a unfinished guide I made this in about an hour couldn't even fix spelling mistakes. Didn't even read it after finishing because I had to sleep
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I'm not so sure that excruciating strike stacks with powerful blow's critical chance.
It does, well atleast for me. I get critical on almost every hit.
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Gorshak's special bad..? Get real. Besides do you only use order of the chief with your chieftains? The main function is still killing.
You would prefer to use Gorshak spend your money on Executioners lose a Castle, Cyclops dwelling and also have bad creeping just because of executioners? They are pretty much useless without aura of haste and will be #1 or #2 target due to less hp/def then other units of there tier, on a big rich map perhaps it might work. But since 2 people posted about Gorshak I'm going to edit in the guide.
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Witch Doctors have saved my hide on more than one occasion. Whether they force the enemy caster to spend double mana, weaken his spell or altogether block it - yes it can happen. And if the caster is a necromancer or warlock then he's toast. It's a risk, either they help you or they end up hit by the enemy's spell too.
Well, I never said there bad. Its just that they never saved me, if I ever used them for good deeds its because of there Cursing/Magic attack.
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My typical pick are the marauders but against dark casters a frenzy can devastate your adjacent units. Especially under Haggash. Avoid putting warmongers next to them
The warmonger's taunt has helped me a few times. Coupled with fierce retaliation and their tanky abilities it's pretty fun. I prefer them to maulers that can be weakened before they gather rage plus when the other units lay dead the warmongers will be standing and enraged
Yes Warmongers usually have maximum rage level in the end of combat and become quite threatening. I underestimate my enemy's Warmongers often when playing Vs. Barbarian  Although with Telsek I still prefer Maulers, such power!
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Sky daughters can do that but they usually don't. I guess you could also hope for week of magic or get refined mana but without aid from situational cicumstances they don't do much.
That's why I said take Earth Shamans if your not sure about getting Sar-Issus set or your oponent has Magic resist/Mirror
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On the choice between chieftain and executioner you are mistaken. Executioners have undoubtedly higher damage since they attack twice and they will DEAL damage, not stay behind.
The chieftains' double attack is distant dream - it will never happen - and even so executioners can get it too that translates into 3 attacks with cleave. Cyclopes with 2 turns in a row are also a distant dream. Yeah maybe if you get 2 stacks of 60 chieftains :rooleyes: Games end week 4-5.
Perhaps I should try using Executioners more, although they never seemed usefull to me. I once tried them against Helmar but they were killed on the first turns with Firewall + Ignite
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Your foul wyvern comments are off. Intercept shooters than the cyclops can't reach fast? Who cares, the cyclopes can take the heat, add in a few goblins to eat, maybe a warcry and they'll never die. Creeping with upgraded wyverns? Out of touch with reality, for one you don't build them week 2 just because cyclopes with castle are more important and secondly if you do your money is gone. If you build them week 3 when will you upgrade? Creeping will be over long before that.
Sorry, perhaps I'm wrong but I don't see any point to use my Cyclops for attacking shooters if I can attack strong damagers Actually I tend to always build Wyverns fast, they are Good at tanking, blocking and countering. But then again I’ll make an edit.
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Paokai blind immunity useless..? You have probably not seen them eat corpses every turn and the opponent frantically trying to stop them. Not to mention they prevent resurrection tactics. But for the most part they are tanks.
No I didn't, I just use them as tanks and to do dirty work like killing wasp hives In the end of battle usually warmongers or chieftans are alive in my games
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Call of blood is the best warcry to use with shout of rage and/or bloodfire. Still good on its own of course.
Thats what I said
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Fear my roar has a few tricks. If you use it in the beginning when the enemy's units are in the back lines they will charge forward and miss their turn. On the other hand if they have come to you they run back It's almost unfair when used with expert shout.
Want me to add that in the guide ?
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Horde's anger is another fun warcry, unfortunately it's only useful in the first few rounds because after that the opponent will have weakened your goblin forces.
That's what I said too
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Shatter destruction I may use vs dungeon but you can do fine even without it. Too much of a gamble vs academy, I wouldn't even consider it. Plus they don't have enough spellpower for you to feel threatened.
And again
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Shatter dark is all about knowing the map. If there is an arcane library then the opponent will likely take dark. Yes even if he is fortress or sylvan.
Shatter light is good, it's the only thing that can prevent the opponent from gaining massive initiative/attack/defense bonuses or having superior resurrection skills. And corrupt light is great for those seraphs.
Okay
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Why does soldier's luck help executioners..?
I'm not sure myself, I was sleepy perhaps I thought about something else. will edit ofcourse.
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Leadership is good but not necessary when you have rallying cry and morale arties/locations. Those 6 lvls can be spent elsewhere.
That's very dangerous if your enemy has -2 Morale Artifacts and/or Banshee howl/Sorrow! I really like taking Leadership+Retribution. Although you are right, against most factions just Morale artifacts and morale boosts will do fine.
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Logistics won't help..? Can't...breathe... You will learn And swift mind is important, firing a warcry before the opponent acts or a unit charges you is priceless.
If you say so! Logistics is only good if your enemy Hero also has Logistics, otherwise spending 5 skill points just to get a one time bonus to initiative... :S
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There's more about warmachines. Beyond week 4 they suck, chances are that the opponent's shooters will kill it on the first round or he will. That is not true against all factions and swift mind can help a lot in preventing this. Also it depends when you get them. If you get them mid week 2 then it's not worth it. At that point you get cyclopes and you don't need the machines as badly anymore.
That's what I said, get ballista only in early game. Although I still think tent is usefull to get even after week 2 because it's the only way to cleanse bad curses.
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Enlightenment is cool but not THAT cool. By the time you have it on expert you don't care about the extra xp of the shrines. By the time you get mentoring creeping is over or more than halfway, besides mentored heroes for orcs are not half as useful as destructive kamikaze. Other than that it's usually an instant pick.
=0 It's not just for mentoring basic enlightment+bloodfire against certain factions is really worth it. and getting Battle Lore on henchman is smart too, as I said in the guide.
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To make might over magic SO effective you need 20-30 power It can help you for sure but let's not exaggerate.
Ok
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About creeping you could read the playing stronghold thread, has some useful info. But I'll insist that you do not need shamans or wyverns. Wyverns would be lovely if you could build them early but..
I never said you NEED Shamans and Wyverns for creeping, although on large maps where important Artifacts could be guarded by lots of spell casters or tough tier6-tier7 units they can help allot. Not necessary that you take them early.
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Vs academy:
Err what exactly do you find easy? Academy tends to use multiple schools so you cannot risk getting a specific shatter other than dark. Because they WILL go for dark and probably summoning or light as well. A mass haste/mass slow with their initiative artifacts gives a superior initiative advantage which can wear out your rage fast. Add a few curses and some summoning obstacles and there you have it. A ballista won't help, saboteurs. Chain lightning is a gamble, magic mirror.
I never found academy tough in early game, there only tough once there hero gains enough knowledge and starts making hacks artifacts. Although perhaps I never played against good academy players
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If dungeon rushes and you have no shatter you are dead, period. He'll use 6-7 invisible stalkers and meteor/fireball you to death. Plus you can expect he'll have logistics so running can only help so much. We are talking week 2-3 now.
When dungeon uses stalker tactics I always wish orcs had land mines
This is where Paokais and Shatter Destruction + Mana Burst / Fiery Wrath helps allot. If it happens you can split Paokais into a few stacks and Centaurs into a few and hope you get to move near the Stalkers quickly.
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Sylvan is easy early, a good match later. But should they get ring of speed you may end up toast. Keep an eye out for frenzy imbued rain of arrows
I don't like playing vs Sylvan on maps with Arcane Library's
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Necropolis is actually a hard and long match. Expect for waves of dark mass spells, puppet, frenzy and phoenix. Early is more about as you said. He may even use destructive if the battle takes place week 2-3. But the witch doctors are unpredictable and may cause him to lose. Remember that early necros have crappy knowledge.
They also have mark of the necromancer, by the way most necromancers I encounter have expert summoning but basic or none dark magic during early game.
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Fortress is another tough match and one getting gradually harder. At least early you have the creeping advantage, later they are powerhouses. Their ballista is crappy don't bother with it. I'd advise improving your might stats and getting rage boosters, there is no telling what you are up against but luck with runes and light is a good probability.
The only really tough Fortress Hero in my opinion is Ingvar, its nearly impossible to rush him, and rushing the castle too. In lategame his Defenders are madness. Paokais can be a good counter when all your other units die. Light+Destruction fortress Hero's are a laugh due to Might over Magic + Shatter light + Resist fire.
Well I'm going to edit the guide today, I'm a bit busy later on not sure if I can add new contant such as advanced strategy but I sure will fix what I wrote.
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted July 03, 2008 12:21 PM |
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Edited by Cleave at 12:24, 03 Jul 2008.
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It doesn't trigger if the executioners don't kill at least one creature of the stack they're attacking.
My bad, still they have to be pretty wimpy if they can't kill one creature. I love this ability.
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by the way most necromancers I encounter have expert summoning but basic or none dark magic during early game.
You can't count on that. It is a really bad strategy to neglect Dark Magic when playing the Necropolis.
By the way the tent can be useful but due to the limited number of uses it's a rather disappointing perk compared to Ballista.
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13 Heroes
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Zwok
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 03, 2008 01:19 PM |
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Edited by Zwok at 13:24, 03 Jul 2008.
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It doesn't trigger if the executioners don't kill at least one creature of the stack they're attacking.
My bad, still they have to be pretty wimpy if they can't kill one creature. I love this ability.
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by the way most necromancers I encounter have expert summoning but basic or none dark magic during early game.
You can't count on that. It is a really bad strategy to neglect Dark Magic when playing the Necropolis.
By the way the tent can be useful but due to the limited number of uses it's a rather disappointing perk compared to Ballista.
As explained in my guide Ballista is good to get early on, you won’t have use for a Triple Flaming Ballista after you finished creeping. At that point threre’s simply too many ways to destroy your Ballista
And I'm not neglecting dark magic, if the necropolis Hero takes expert dark magic on the first weeks he will have tougher creeping, and will be forced to make a level 5 mages guild. That’s the best time to rush and win the only scary thing he can do is cast berserk on the unit that acts before your tent can cure but that’s not the scariest thing that could happen if he had summoning, resurrection with arcane shield on Wraiths/Skeletons will cause much more trouble!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 03, 2008 01:59 PM |
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I took a look at the edit so two more comments. Tent only dispels up to lvl 3 dark and remote control randomly picks a warmachine so it's unreliable.
Anyway many of my comments were there to add, not contradict.
Getting Gorshak does not mean I won't get cyclopes, nothing changes in my gameplay.
Logistics are essential by themselves, swift mind or warpath is just a bonus. Not in all maps but in some breaking first can make all the difference since you end up with more levels and artifacts. It's an investment. Also once I was attacked by dungeon and because I had swift mind I could surrender before any spells were cast.
And since sylvan with arcane library was mentioned take a look at these.
You may find the second battle especially interesting. I could have won but I was under the impression that killing the druids will not make the extra spellpower disappear. In both I am stronghold.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Zwok
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 03, 2008 02:25 PM |
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Edited by Zwok at 14:44, 03 Jul 2008.
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I took a look at the edit so two more comments. Tent only dispels up to lvl 3 dark and remote control randomly picks a warmachine so it's unreliable.
Anyway many of my comments were there to add, not contradict.
Getting Gorshak does not mean I won't get cyclopes, nothing changes in my gameplay.
Logistics are essential by themselves, swift mind or warpath is just a bonus. Not in all maps but in some breaking first can make all the difference since you end up with more levels and artifacts. It's an investment. Also once I was attacked by dungeon and because I had swift mind I could surrender before any spells were cast.
And since sylvan with arcane library was mentioned take a look at these.
You may find the second battle especially interesting. I could have won but I was under the impression that killing the druids will not make the extra spellpower disappear. In both I am stronghold.
Okay, I'm not sure what to answer? thanks.
I did add some of your comments, watching your replay now.
#Edit:
I watched your replay, (the 2nd one) the rooting-boxing technique sylvan used against you was quite interesting) another lucky hit / morale effect here or there could make you win though. Close one
There’s some things bothering me though, how come you had so little Goblins and Warmongers at the start of the battle? And why didn’t Sylvan's Hero have Expert Dark? Or you had Advanced Shatter Dark?
And the last thing I can't understand - Why did you use Fearsome Roar on the Unicorns?
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted July 03, 2008 02:42 PM |
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You did cover an area I had not gotten into yet with my stronghold. Shows a lot of promise. Your correct also, there are a bunch of strategy threads out there. So another won't hurt any.
Keep up the good work, and keep an open mind. 
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Message received.
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted July 03, 2008 02:44 PM |
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While a bit boring and not necessarily complete on the units part, it covers some interesting aspects of the stronghold skill tree, and shows really different possibilities for playing this faction going beyond the usual triple flaming balista.
For the non expert stronghold player that I am this guide was an interesting read.
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Zwok
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 03, 2008 02:45 PM |
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Edited by Zwok at 14:48, 03 Jul 2008.
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You did cover an area I had not gotten into yet with my stronghold. Shows a lot of promise. Your correct also, there are a bunch of strategy threads out there. So another won't hurt any.
Keep up the good work, and keep an open mind.
Thanks allot!
About the open mind, that's what my Avatar resembles
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While a bit boring and not necessarily complete on the units part, it covers some interesting aspects of the stronghold skill tree, and shows really different possibilities for playing this faction going beyond the usual triple flaming balista.
For the non expert stronghold player that I am this guide was an interesting read.
Thanks again, I really didn't expect to get good Criticism! Well mostly because I'm still a noob. Once I finish the advanced strategy part 'I hope' it will be a good read for all players
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted July 03, 2008 05:32 PM |
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if the necropolis Hero takes expert dark magic on the first weeks he will have tougher creeping, and will be forced to make a level 5 mages guild. That’s the best time to rush and win the only scary thing he can do is cast berserk on the unit that acts before your tent can cure but that’s not the scariest thing that could happen if he had summoning, resurrection with arcane shield on Wraiths/Skeletons will cause much more trouble!
You're mistaken. Frenzy can't be cured. Mass Confusion can make your Centaurs useless and it allows your troops to be attacked with no retaliation, Mass Slow will definitely cripple your army (and you can't rely on the Shamans to counter it).
By the way Dark Magic is perfect for creeping. Casting Mass Confusion against shooters makes any fight much easier. The same goes for Mass Slow. I'm not even considering the usefulness of PM (with Mark of the Necromancer to regain the mana). Necromancers can creep very fast and very efficiently (when the SP is high enough they don't even need Summoning).
Raise Dead is a great spell to avoid losing troops when facing neutrals but IMHO in a real battle you always have something better to do with your spellcasting (especially when you have Expert Dark Magic).
I'm not saying Summoning is useless, I'm just saying Dark Magic is much better both for creeping and battles.
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13 Heroes
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espen15
Famous Hero
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posted July 03, 2008 05:56 PM |
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high level hero gotai and intiative artifacts.
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Zwok
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 03, 2008 06:36 PM |
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Edited by Zwok at 18:38, 03 Jul 2008.
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if the necropolis Hero takes expert dark magic on the first weeks he will have tougher creeping, and will be forced to make a level 5 mages guild. That’s the best time to rush and win the only scary thing he can do is cast berserk on the unit that acts before your tent can cure but that’s not the scariest thing that could happen if he had summoning, resurrection with arcane shield on Wraiths/Skeletons will cause much more trouble!
You're mistaken. Frenzy can't be cured. Mass Confusion can make your Centaurs useless and it allows your troops to be attacked with no retaliation, Mass Slow will definitely cripple your army (and you can't rely on the Shamans to counter it).
By the way Dark Magic is perfect for creeping. Casting Mass Confusion against shooters makes any fight much easier. The same goes for Mass Slow. I'm not even considering the usefulness of PM (with Mark of the Necromancer to regain the mana). Necromancers can creep very fast and very efficiently (when the SP is high enough they don't even need Summoning).
Raise Dead is a great spell to avoid losing troops when facing neutrals but IMHO in a real battle you always have something better to do with your spellcasting (especially when you have Expert Dark Magic).
I'm not saying Summoning is useless, I'm just saying Dark Magic is much better both for creeping and battles.
First of all I suggested taking Centaur Marauders because of there Melee capability incase they get Confuse cast on. Secondly Tent can cure Confuse. Thirdly even if your units are Slowed/Confused they can actually do something useful, if the Necromancer summons a Phoenix and casts an Arcane Barrier on his most defensive stack + Phantom forces you will have little to no chance to defeat him. A Dark Necromancer can be very easily countered by Basic Shatter Dark + Corrupt dark or Weaken Dark, while a Necromancer with Expert Summoning can already have a great advantage by having a Phoenix on the field. The problem against Necromancer Summoners is that they block Archers / Liches against your Cyclops and Slayers. Your Centaurs die during the first few turns. This forces you to attack a Phoenix which is hardly killable during early game and will Cripple your units badly. I will explain this more detailed in the advanced strategy part that I’m making.
P.S. A necro with Master of Earthblood means game over for you if he comes for a visit on week 2-3.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 03, 2008 07:11 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 19:20, 03 Jul 2008.
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#Edit:
I watched your replay, (the 2nd one) the rooting-boxing technique sylvan used against you was quite interesting) another lucky hit / morale effect here or there could make you win though. Close one
There’s some things bothering me though, how come you had so little Goblins and Warmongers at the start of the battle? And why didn’t Sylvan's Hero have Expert Dark? Or you had Advanced Shatter Dark?
And the last thing I can't understand - Why did you use Fearsome Roar on the Unicorns?
Heh if only I had used fear my roar on the treants that had entangled my cyclopes to fry both druids and sprites with my laser
The map was dragon hill and the garrison had 20 blackies, 15 lava dragons and 300 assassins. Since I had no tent I attacked with my cyclopes and goblins only and with no means to resurrect I lost some goblins, at least 130.
As for the few warmongers the map does not have a tier 3 dwelling so they are less compared to the other units. Sylvan had expert dark, however I expected he would try dark again and got the shatter.
Fear my roar on the unicorns was to avoid them hitting the chieftains of course 
Here's a week 3 fight of orcs vs necro. That was on heritage of Deleb, excellent match.
Btw I wasn't sure if passing through the firewall can hurt me multiple times hence why I did not move my centaurs right away.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Zwok
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 03, 2008 07:30 PM |
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#Edit:
I watched your replay, (the 2nd one) the rooting-boxing technique sylvan used against you was quite interesting) another lucky hit / morale effect here or there could make you win though. Close one
There’s some things bothering me though, how come you had so little Goblins and Warmongers at the start of the battle? And why didn’t Sylvan's Hero have Expert Dark? Or you had Advanced Shatter Dark?
And the last thing I can't understand - Why did you use Fearsome Roar on the Unicorns?
Heh if only I had used fear my roar on the treants that had entangled my cyclopes to fry both druids and sprites with my laser
The map was dragon hill and the garrison had 20 blackies, 15 lava dragons and 300 assassins. Since I had no tent I attacked with my cyclopes and goblins only and with no means to resurrect I lost some goblins, at least 130.
As for the few warmongers the map does not have a tier 3 dwelling so they are less compared to the other units. Sylvan had expert dark, however I expected he would try dark again and got the shatter.
Fear my roar on the unicorns was to avoid them hitting the chieftains of course
Here's a week 3 fight of orcs vs necro. That was on heritage of Deleb, excellent match.
Btw I wasn't sure if passing through the firewall can hurt me multiple times hence why I did not move my centaurs right away.
Got any replays aganist Academy that uses Arcane Barrier + Summon Phoenix + Ressurection? I got lots of trouble with that Cyclops cant get past the Phoenix, although Back to the Void helps killing.
Oh and I added a tiny bit of content to the guide you might want to read it, at the bottom
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