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| Thread: My HoMMVI concept |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 27, 2008 01:28 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 23:25, 10 Dec 2008.
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Some HoMMVI ideas
This is a rewrite of my last concept, which I will admit quite outdated. It's only going to be the towns and creatures for now till I've sorted the rest of it out.
Basic Buildings
Village Hall (prebuilt)  Town Hall City Hall Palace
Town is level 1 town is level 2 town is level 3 town is level 4.
Requires: N/A Tavern Marketplace, Blacksmith, level 1 dwelling Fort, Academy, Level 3 dwelling
Tax Office (prebuilt)
Generates [250*2^town level] gold per day.
Requires: Village Hall
Fort Citidal Castle
Adds walls to town defences strengthens walls and town defences strengthens walls and town defences.
Requires: Village Hall level 1 dwelling Town Hall, level 2 dwelling
Moat
Adds moat to town defences.
Requires: Village Hall
Keep
Adds keep turrets to town defences.
Requires: Fort
Towers
Adds corner turrets to town defences.
Requires: Fort
Gatehouse
Adds gatehouse turrets to town defences.
Requires: Fort
MG (Mage Guild) lvl 1 MG lvl 2 MG lvl 3 MG lvl 4 MG lvl 5
Can store 5 level 1 spells, regenerates [10*MG level*town level] spell points/day or [MG level*town level] spell points/turn in combat can store 4 level 2 spells, regenerates [10*MG level*town level] spell points/day or [MG level*town level] spell points/turn in combat can store 3 level 3 spells, regenerates [10*MG level*town level] spell points/day or [MG level*town level] spell points/turn in combat can store 2 level 4 spells, regenerates [10*MG level*town level] spell points/day or [MG level*town level] spell points/turn in combat can store 1 level 5 spell, regenerates [10*MG level*town level] spell points/day or [MG level*town level] spellpoints/turn in combat.
Requires: Village Hall Town Hall nothing new City Hall nothing new
Scryer's Guild
Generates 1 spell/day for Mage Guild, with a [(20*town level)^n]% of generating further spells.
Requires: MG lvl 1
Tavern
Player can recruit heroes and visit the thieves guild.
Requires: Village Hall
Marketplace
Player can trade resources with increasing efficiency.
Requires: Village Hall
Ballista Yard/Healer's Hall/Armoury
Produces Ballistas, and provides them for siege defence/produces First Aid Tents, and provides them for siege defence/produces Ammo Carts, and provides them for siege defence.
Requires: Village Hall
Siege Workshop
Produces catapults.
Requires: Town Hall, Fort,
Training Yard Officer's School
Player can train Sergeants (like heroes, but with very few skill and artifact slots, no specialties, and don't return to tavern if defeated (though they do if they run) player can train Captains (more skill and artifact slots than Sergeants, but still no specialties or defeated returns).
Requires: Village Hall, Fort, level 1 dwelling City Hall, level 3 dwelling
Caravan
Player can send creatures and heroes to distant locations and autogather from nearby estates (windmills, watermills, etc.).
Requires: Town Hall, Training Yard.
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Brawlermatrix
Thinking Outside the Box
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posted August 27, 2008 02:39 AM |
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I like what i see
I like what i see, the Academy reminds me of the Captain's Quarters from Heroes 2.
You utilization of separating fortifications down into 4 base elements could be interesting to experience.
How will the towns graphics (I know your not that far) change with the developing and upgrading of fortifications?
____________
Think outside the box and see
true potential, stay inside the
box and say the same.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 27, 2008 02:58 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 03:11, 27 Aug 2008.
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Some of my ideas are developed from concepts discussed here. I think the biggest change is dissociating the halls (village/town/etc.) from any function other than the town level, allowing me to focus on that aspect a bit more. An example of this would be the town defences, which are now a lot more deadly, with the strength deing decided by the fort, but the actual damage done being decided by the hall, so that a late-game town is fairly strong even with a small garrison (and a Capital requires a sizable force to even get through the defences. I'm also considering whether or not turrets should contribute to active defence (ie, count as 'stacks' in their own right) rather than just passive like they do currently.
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Brawlermatrix
Thinking Outside the Box
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posted August 27, 2008 03:22 AM |
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i would consider them as a active stack since they would be able to attack in there own right
I have been reviewing my design regards fortifications and come up with a concept that could work with your design taking into consideration of the basic characteristics of the fortification type itself.
Fort;
Has access to building -
City Gate
Dry Moat
Tower - Timber
Citadel;
Has access to building -
Mannor House
City Gate
Wet Moat
Tower - Stone
Castle;
Has access to building -
Keep
Gatehouse
Wet Moat
Tower - Stone
This is a give or take concept taking into consideration of some basic factors. Will you also be considering the killing field or utilize a "Duel Field" aspect to the combat, where as the fortifications grow so does the area the fortifications occupy on the battlefield in a siege.
If you would like I can post either here or on my post a more detailed description of what I am talking about regards fortification evolution and battlefield conditions.
____________
Think outside the box and see
true potential, stay inside the
box and say the same.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 27, 2008 03:49 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 04:08, 27 Aug 2008.
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Quote:
i would consider them as a active stack since they would be able to attack in there own right
True, but as with siege weapons they can't hold a town on their own, and I want to change that, make it so you have to take out the towers before taking the town, and make it so that they can do serious damage as well.
If you've got some ideas about defences you could post them on the 'Evolution of Towns' thread.
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Brawlermatrix
Thinking Outside the Box
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posted August 27, 2008 04:03 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
i would consider them as a active stack since they would be able to attack in there own right
True, but as with siege weapons they can't hold a town on their own, and I want to change that, make it so you have to take out the towers before taking the town, and make it so that they can do serious damage as well.
That is true, that no siege or fortification can hold complete control of the battlefield but with the advent of technological advantage there is a a significant advantage given to those with the advantage either with just theses advantages, for example the development of the machine gun allowed a garrison of units to eliminate a entire army as a result of there technological advantage.
Thus, with your fortifications being given advantage in firepower and hit points then a enemy force would have to eliminate the offense capabilities of the fortification to gain control. But with that then you would have to consider the maintenance cost to repair the "damaged" fortifications or will they be rebuilt automatically as in other versions of heroes?
So with the way of thought you are following it is ultimately the way of war itself.
____________
Think outside the box and see
true potential, stay inside the
box and say the same.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 27, 2008 04:28 AM |
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Quote:
That is true, that no siege or fortification can hold complete control of the battlefield but with the advent of technological advantage there is a a significant advantage given to those with the advantage either with just theses advantages, for example the development of the machine gun allowed a garrison of units to eliminate a entire army as a result of there technological advantage.
What I was getting at actually, was the fact that an enemy currently (currently in H3 anyway, don't know abou 4 or 5) doesn't have to bother with towers at all, they're a minor irritation by late game, and are automatically captured when the garrison dies. My idea was to make them a part of the garrison, so they have to be destroyed before the town can be captured, and the damage they do is
Quote:
Thus, with your fortifications being given advantage in firepower and hit points then a enemy force would have to eliminate the offense capabilities of the fortification to gain control. But with that then you would have to consider the maintenance cost to repair the "damaged" fortifications or will they be rebuilt automatically as in other versions of heroes?
Damaged fortifications will get auto-rebuilt, but actual destroyed ones (turrets, maybe wall sections) need to be payed for, eg, left corner turret is destroyed, so the next round you have to decide whether to pay the stone and gold to get it repaired (say 2-3 stone, 750 gold), or go without it for a while, and hope the next battle doesn't come before you get it repaired. Also, since you're only repairing it, it won't cost you a build spot at the hall, though losing both towers of a pair means you'll have to rebuild them.
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Brawlermatrix
Thinking Outside the Box
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posted August 27, 2008 04:45 AM |
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Quote:
What I was getting at actually, was the fact that an enemy currently (currently in H3 anyway, don't know abou 4 or 5) doesn't have to bother with towers at all, they're a minor irritation by late game, and are automatically captured when the garrison dies. My idea was to make them a part of the garrison, so they have to be destroyed before the town can be captured, and the damage they do is
Indeed that was what i way trying to convey, that in combat the hero would have to destroy its threats (offensives defenses) before being able to gain control of the castle.
And that each offensive defense should be treated as a stack in combat for a interesting chance to control there advantage but depending on your skill based you are using you wont need to treat them as a starting stack for if you gain the appropriate skill you would be able to control there offensive defenses.
____________
Think outside the box and see
true potential, stay inside the
box and say the same.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 27, 2008 04:56 AM |
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Quote:
And that each offensive defense should be treated as a stack in combat for a interesting chance to control there advantage but depending on your skill based you are using you wont need to treat them as a starting stack for if you gain the appropriate skill you would be able to control there offensive defenses.
You mean, like using Hypnotise/Puppet Master?
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Brawlermatrix
Thinking Outside the Box
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posted August 27, 2008 07:03 AM |
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Quote:
You mean, like using Hypnotise/Puppet Master?
More in the meaning of you the hero being sieged against has the control of manually controlling your towers, thus treating them like units that of course would be immune to such spells like Hypnotize or Puppet Master.
For a idea where my mean is coming from try a similar approach to the utilization of Artillery or Ballistics depending on the style of offensive weaponry used.
For example;
A Timber Tower could use archers
A Gatehouse, Stone Tower or Keep could utilize ballistic weapons.
____________
Think outside the box and see
true potential, stay inside the
box and say the same.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 27, 2008 10:38 AM |
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Quote:
More in the meaning of you the hero being sieged against has the control of manually controlling your towers, thus treating them like units that of course would be immune to such spells like Hypnotize or Puppet Master.
For a idea where my mean is coming from try a similar approach to the utilization of Artillery or Ballistics depending on the style of offensive weaponry used.
For example;
A Timber Tower could use archers
A Gatehouse, Stone Tower or Keep could utilize ballistic weapons.
Oh, right. Actually, I don't think making the turrets immune to Hypnotise/Puppet master would be such a good idea if we're going to treat them as units.
Interesting idea with using siege weapons 'on' the castles, though perhaps this could be an option with certain town types rather than a basic defence for all towns.
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Brawlermatrix
Thinking Outside the Box
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posted August 27, 2008 11:34 AM |
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Quote:
Oh, right. Actually, I don't think making the turrets immune to Hypnotise/Puppet master would be such a good idea if we're going to treat them as units.
Interesting idea with using siege weapons 'on' the castles, though perhaps this could be an option with certain town types rather than a basic defence for all towns.
Actually if you look at the Stronghold series, that is where i obtained my idea from.
Well depending on your set-up and classification of the fortifications; fortifications are not a unit but are a "unit" thus because of this situation they can not be controlled my unit effecting spells, would you not agree?
____________
Think outside the box and see
true potential, stay inside the
box and say the same.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 27, 2008 12:32 PM |
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Quote:
Well depending on your set-up and classification of the fortifications; fortifications are not a unit but are a "unit" thus because of this situation they can not be controlled my unit effecting spells, would you not agree?
Well I'd personally classify them as immobile units (a classification I'd also like to apply to siege engines), and as such, you can use mind control on them. I think the best thing to do on this point would be to agree to disagree.
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Brawlermatrix
Thinking Outside the Box
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posted August 27, 2008 02:13 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Well depending on your set-up and classification of the fortifications; fortifications are not a unit but are a "unit" thus because of this situation they can not be controlled my unit effecting spells, would you not agree?
Well I'd personally classify them as immobile units (a classification I'd also like to apply to siege engines), and as such, you can use mind control on them. I think the best thing to do on this point would be to agree to disagree.
My question come out wrong, it was only a statement regards the position that offensive fortifications have to deal with and how you would consider them if they become effected by spells.
Your statement to immobile siege engines, yes I would agree most are generally immobile anyway, so you would also consider Ballista and alike to become immobile similar to Heroes 3
____________
Think outside the box and see
true potential, stay inside the
box and say the same.
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rubycus
Known Hero
-student of the mind-
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posted September 28, 2008 01:13 PM |
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Edited by rubycus at 13:17, 28 Sep 2008.
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Quote:
Generates [250*2^town level] gold per day.
Ehm... Are you sure? What this means is that if your town level is 30, then your daily income will be 268435456000 gold 
A bit to high, maybe 
Anyway, this means that with a town level 1 you will earn 500 gold/day. With town level 2 you will earn 1000. With town level 3 you will earn 2000. With town level 4 you will earn 4000! Etc. It's way too much, unless you make creatures and buildings cost much more... Btw, if you have such a system, then what to the town hall/city hall/capitol do?
Let's take another numer instead of 2. Say: sqare root of 1,2. Then daily income on level 1 will be 274. On level 2 it will be 300. On level 3 it will be 329. On level 30 it will be 3852 and on level 35 it will be 6076. The "high-level-income" is similiar to what we're used to, but the "low-level-income" is way to low, at least if you keep the stanard building and creature cost.
I suggest a new furmula: 1000 + 250*(sqrroot of 1,2)^town level. With the +1000 added you'll always have an income higher than 1000, and not lousy 274 I've always wanted another income system, but never developed one!
Btw, with this system you need to make all the different factions able to reach the same town level. Unless it will be unfear...
And with this system, you avoid the "build city hall" race. It acctually pays off to build up the city...
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A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted September 28, 2008 05:13 PM |
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Rubycus, I guess you misunderstood Matt.
His town level is, as far as I see it, determined only by the town hall, etc.
Quote:
Village Hall (prebuilt) Town Hall City Hall Palace
Town is level 1 town is level 2 town is level 3 town is level 4.
That means the maxi mum level is 4 (for all factions!) and the maximum income therefore is 250*(2^4)=4000, which is the normal capitol income...or did I get the things wrong here?
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted September 28, 2008 07:22 PM |
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Quote:
That means the maxi mum level is 4 (for all factions!) and the maximum income therefore is 250*(2^4)=4000, which is the normal capitol income...or did I get the things wrong here?
I guess you did the math properly 
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rubycus
Known Hero
-student of the mind-
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posted September 28, 2008 10:42 PM |
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all right.. maybe I misunderstood() MattII'll have to decide But it is kind of hard to understand... I mean why not just write: village Hall: 500 gold income, town hall: 1000 gold income, and so on?
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A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 28, 2008 10:50 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 23:02, 28 Sep 2008.
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Bang in jiriki9. I'm also thinking of the grail adding a fifth level to the town.
Rubycus, the reason I didn't just use the normal system is because town level effects several different areas of the town (income, creature output, siege defence damage, market trade efficiency).
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rubycus
Known Hero
-student of the mind-
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posted September 29, 2008 06:38 PM |
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ahh, I see.(should I've got that from reading the masterpost?) Btw, I like the idea...
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A prudent question is one-half of wisdom.
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