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| Thread: Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac Bailout |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted September 25, 2008 06:54 AM |
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It's a pretty complex situation that can't be broken down to a "do or don't" situation.
Sure, the situation is ****ed up, (which is just another addition to the long list of reasons why McSame shouldn't get back into power)
But without the bailout it's only going to have get worse.
There really is no choice. If it takes 700 billion, then that's the price that has to be paid.
But it needs to be controlled. It needs to be done effectively, not just throwing money at the CEOs for them to do what they want.
Here's an email I got from Barack himself 
Quote:
• No Golden Parachutes -- Taxpayer dollars should not be used to reward the irresponsible Wall Street executives who helmed this disaster.
• Main Street, Not Just Wall Street -- Any bailout plan must include a payback strategy for taxpayers who are footing the bill and aid to innocent homeowners who are facing foreclosure.
• Bipartisan Oversight -- The staggering amount of taxpayer money involved demands a bipartisan board to ensure accountability and oversight.
Anyway, I wonder how many Russians are sitting there going... "I told you it doesn't work "
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mvassilev
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posted September 25, 2008 02:45 PM |
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It's a bad idea, no two ways about it. Let them crash - they have unrealistic expectations, so why should the taxpayer hold them up? And what happened to personal responsibility?
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted September 25, 2008 02:54 PM |
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Because if they crash it brings down not only the US economy, but also other nations with strong economic ties to the US stock market.
I used to read Fight Club thinking that I could sympathise with Tyler Durden and his "We have no great depression."
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Moonlith
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posted September 26, 2008 10:29 AM |
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Quote:
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deceptive 'teaser' interest rates
Are you referring to ARMs? Because people should know the risks before they sign up for them. If interest rates go up - too bad for them. They knew what they were getting into.
I used to think the same way you did, and I used to agree with what you say.
But then I grew up and started realizing I am in the same group that is being exploited, so it's not in my interest to take such stances
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mvassilev
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posted September 26, 2008 10:54 PM |
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Hey, unless you took out an ARM or are one of the banks, then you should be doing fine. "Should" being the key word there - if the government didn't practice the privatization of rewards and socialization of risks. 
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Moonlith
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posted September 27, 2008 11:37 AM |
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Edited by pandora at 00:55, 29 Sep 2008.
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Actually it's the other way around. The BANKS and all *********** that caused the mess are being saved by (LOL, how typical the very government they have in their backpocket, paid by YOUR money! Awesome aint it  Because their frontmen happen to tell everyone by giving civilian money to them is the only way to solve this crisis.
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mvassilev
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posted September 27, 2008 06:20 PM |
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Wait, you say that you disagree with me, when you're in agreement! Kind of. It's difficult to say who is more responsible - the banks, for handing out bad loans, or the people, for taking out loans they could never pay. (But it's fashion now to also blame Alan Greenspan for setting interest rates low, and it's a criticism that frankly makes no sense.) Either way, both the people and the banks are both responsible. It's important to understand, though, that the banks didn't make all of these bad loans - a lot of them were made by "lending companies" who then sold them to the banks. Regardless, it's clear that both sides are responsible, and neither should be bailed out. Why should we have public risks when the rewards are private?
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OmegaDestroyer
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Fox or Chicken?
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posted September 28, 2008 09:28 AM |
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Sorry TA, but the golden parachutes are open The kids acted like adults... kinda.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted September 28, 2008 11:02 AM |
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Why sorry TA?
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Mytical
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posted September 28, 2008 11:32 AM |
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Hmm, I have looked and looked for news articles on what type of financial bonuses their executives are getting. One rumor (Unsubstantiated at this time) is that one person who was there for 17 days is getting 20 million. Oh these poor poor people...we should give them more money! How can they live on that?!
Yeah, it's smart to bail out companies that dole out such 'bonuses' when they are loosing money. REAL smart business sense there. Now some have argued the 'trickle' down effect, but it hasn't been working. Instead of spending it, they are just hording it. Hey they already got a lot of money to spend, so the extra they can just save.
On the other hand, the 'poor' are notorious spenders. And think about the 'trickle up' effect. IF (and this is a big IF) you are going to throw money away (yes I think the 700 billion is being THROWN away)..just divide it amoung the Adult, Legal Residents who make under 100k a year. Heck, if needed pay the money to businesses they owe dirrectly..if you are going to burn the money anyhow..might as well.
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mvassilev
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posted September 28, 2008 05:21 PM |
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Quote:
Instead of spending it, they are just hording it.
They're not stupid. They definitely don't hoard their money.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted September 29, 2008 03:44 AM |
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Quote:
On the other hand, the 'poor' are notorious spenders. And think about the 'trickle up' effect. IF (and this is a big IF) you are going to throw money away (yes I think the 700 billion is being THROWN away)..just divide it amoung the Adult, Legal Residents who make under 100k a year. Heck, if needed pay the money to businesses they owe dirrectly..if you are going to burn the money anyhow..might as well.
This would not help the credit crunch and the economic downfall caused by these companies.
Much more money would be lost worldwide if America went into recession.
It's not so much whether these people need the money because they lost their jobs, or whether they deserve it. It's that it needs to be done in order to prevent further economic disaster.
My family has already lost alot of money over the stock market crash.
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mvassilev
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posted September 29, 2008 04:33 AM |
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So has mine, but they're not clamoring for a bailout - they're clamoring against one.
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OmegaDestroyer
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Fox or Chicken?
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posted September 29, 2008 10:02 PM |
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So much for that idea. God forbid Congress gets anything accomplished other than assigning blame.
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You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
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Peacemaker
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posted September 29, 2008 10:39 PM |
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Bailout vote fails
For all of you who were against this bill, be prepared for there not to be any money in your employer's bank in order to get your paycheck, and for the value of your paper money to be reduced to that of toilet paper.
...and that's just the beginning.
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mvassilev
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posted September 29, 2008 11:34 PM |
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Recessions are natural, and, to a certain extent, good. Such extreme countercyclical policy is counterproductive. Most banks didn't make these bad loans - only a few big ones and some "lending companies" did. For example, the Organization of Oklahoma Banks (or whatever it's called) issued a statement that they were against the bailout, and that they didn't make any of these loans.
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doomnezeu
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posted September 29, 2008 11:49 PM |
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Quote:
Recessions are natural
Yes they are, but not on such a large scale. Though I do think there are certain groups of interests which will benefit from this.
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mvassilev
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posted September 30, 2008 12:43 AM |
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It depends on what causes the recession. When many banks make large errors, the recession is likewise large. As for who benefits - in the short run, no one. In the long run, nearly everyone.
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TitaniumAlloy
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posted September 30, 2008 04:21 AM |
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Here's some change to believe in:
The Bush administration giving you 50 cents for your dollar after bankrupting the economy now seems like a good deal now that you won't get 2 cents.
So I'd say cash out now before McSame runs it into the ground.
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Mytical
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posted September 30, 2008 01:08 PM |
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Ok, now that the 'blank check' has failed there is a chance. Now just giving them the money for a few percentage points was a BAD deal. However, if done correctly, we CAN recover from this. Sure buy some of the mortgages from them, especially 'fix em ups' and resell them later. Make the money BACK. Buy the bad debts, that is fine, but make sure the houses that those debts go to come with them.
Lend them the money (note the word LEND). Force them to break up to smaller companies so that next time when they mess up, it is not so devestating.
No more 'get out of your mess' free cards. You mess up, you help fix it. No blank check bailouts. If you have to be bailed out, you are broken into smaller companies. Period. And LOANED the money, not just given it. (The loans would be spread ammount the smaller companies). Heck make it interest free loans, but LOANS.
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