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| Thread: Vampires and Dark Elves |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted October 10, 2008 05:57 AM |
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Vampires and Dark Elves
This thought has been kicking around in my head (along with everything else) for a little while, and that thought is 'why are the Vampires with the Necropolis rather than the Dungeon. Yes, I know the typical answer is 'they're undead', but that excuse could also be used to shove the Shadow Witch into Sylvan, which won't ever happen.
The dark elves on the other hand seem to be quite close to the vampires in some ways. They both possess decent flesh (Zombies are rotting, Skeletons 'have' rotted and Ghosts don't even have a real body any more), a good, if dramatic dress sense and a love of the darkness. Of course there's always the question of what Vampires would eat (or drink) while in the Dungeon (what do they eat/drink in the Necropolis), but that ought to be obvious, they drink Minotaur blood, which not only provides them with sustenance, but also pacifies the Minotaurs, who can now be rid of their chains and muzzles in favour of some decent armour.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted October 10, 2008 06:00 AM |
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Nah, I wouldn't like to see that and I don't think it would work well. Vampires have and always should be in the Necromancer towns, and shouldn't be anywhere else. I couldn't imagine a Vampire in a Dungeon like town. It just wouldn't feel right IMO.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted October 10, 2008 06:14 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 08:00, 10 Oct 2008.
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Quote:
Nah, I wouldn't like to see that and I don't think it would work well. Vampires have and always should be in the Necromancer towns, and shouldn't be anywhere else. I couldn't imagine a Vampire in a Dungeon like town. It just wouldn't feel right IMO.
How about sticking the dwarves back in with the elves where they were for the first three? Additionally, all the other undead have to be raised from corpses, Vampire (traditionally) can also draw directly from the living.
On top of that, what's to say that the Dark Elves aren't at least part Vampire, in the same way that all of the stronghold creatures are part demon.
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted October 10, 2008 09:36 AM |
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Well this doesn't just go into the HOMM series, since Vampires have known to be in necro towns in most other games I have played. It really wouldn't feel right to have a Vampire in a place that doesn't have much to do with death. Necropolis is the home of the Vampire.
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted October 10, 2008 09:40 AM |
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I too agree that Vamps should be in Necro, and that they should be the dominant race as well.
I like TWO kinds of Vampires in Necro. First are the standart, Bat-like Vamps, the others are the infamous Dread Lords. 
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted October 10, 2008 10:31 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 10:42, 10 Oct 2008.
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Well this doesn't just go into the HOMM series, since Vampires have known to be in necro towns in most other games I have played. It really wouldn't feel right to have a Vampire in a place that doesn't have much to do with death. Necropolis is the home of the Vampire.
Can I have those names please, because I'll tell you what, they seem to about the one undead that doesn't show up in Warcraft, and while they are grouped in with the other undead in Warhammer, they're almost invariably heroes or special units.
I'll also raise the issue of the Gargoyle. It was with the Warlocks in H1&2, with the Tower in H3&5, and an external only Necropolis creature in H4. Dwarves, Centaurs and Gryphons have also been in contention before now.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted October 10, 2008 02:03 PM |
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It's not a good idea IMO, I have never seen in a fantasy world Dark Elves who have something to do with Vampires.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted October 10, 2008 02:06 PM |
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Quote:
It's not a good idea IMO, I have never seen in a fantasy world Dark Elves who have something to do with Vampires.
Spellforce has vampire-like Dark Elves but they're not true vampires.
While I do not agree with this idea, I was really expecting William to be too conservative with the first post 
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Asheera
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Elite Assassin
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posted October 10, 2008 02:13 PM |
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Vampires are undead. That's enough of a difference to not place them with living creatures
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted October 10, 2008 02:13 PM |
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Quote:
the one undead that doesn't show up in Warcraft
*cough*Dreadlord*cough*
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blizzardboy
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Nerf Herder
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posted October 10, 2008 03:33 PM |
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I think Blizzard is trying to stay away from vampires because they're arguably a highly overused creature these days among games and novels and such. Dreadlords aren't vampires  , they're demons.
I'd prefer to keep vampires with undead. Mostly because after looking at Heroes 5 and all the previous Heroes games, I think I like the race-based factions more than the theme-based factions, so I'd naturally prefer to keep vampires with undead. Although if you're going for theme-based factions, I can understand where you're coming from since they would go together well.
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Cepheus
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Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted October 10, 2008 03:37 PM |
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Quote:
Dreadlords aren't vampires , they're demons.
Yes, bloodsucking "demons" with batlike wings, alabaster skin, fangs, rugged claws and an uncanny resemblance to Dracula. Nothing vampiric about them 
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blizzardboy
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Nerf Herder
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posted October 10, 2008 03:38 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Dreadlords aren't vampires , they're demons.
Yes, bloodsucking "demons" with batlike wings, alabaster skin, fangs, rugged claws and an uncanny resemblance to Dracula. Nothing vampiric about them
They've got horns! And, they've got horns!
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Asheera
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Elite Assassin
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posted October 10, 2008 03:49 PM |
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You know, there is Paladin's Holy Light ability which damages enemy undead units - and IIRC it DOES damage the Dreadlords, therefore they are Undead (Vampires) - they can't be Demons
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Jiriki9
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Altar Dweller
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posted October 10, 2008 05:01 PM |
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Quote:
How about sticking the dwarves back in with the elves where they were for the first three? Additionally, all the other undead have to be raised from corpses, Vampire (traditionally) can also draw directly from the living.
I would not like to see that. Heroes is the only setting I know where they did that and I did not like it from the first time...
and the other idea...I do not quite see why everyone is so contra here. It would be at least somethin gnew and allthough they're certainly undead they fit to the dark elves rather good IMO, depends on how you see a Vampire's character and look - to me, they are intelligent, extremely pale (but, in my vision, not at all ugly or rotting, like most Necro units!!!!), rather strong, elegant, agile, capable of flying, mostly evil (but not allways), can feel emotions(!Other than Hate!), having and using power over humans (and other "intelligent" races), dronk blood and have a strong affinity to old castles and bats
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DagothGares
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Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted October 12, 2008 02:22 AM |
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let's make a comparison:
vamps:
- dead
- evil
- suck blood
- human origins
- favors longswords
- pale and beautiful
dark elves:
- alive
- evil, but not necesarily (yes, all vampires are evil, because they kill humans to survive, get it?)
- eat like normal peeps
- sylvan origins
- favors dual wield and stealth combat
- pale and beautiful
so... only one thing they share and that's aesthetic appeal? I see...
Honestly, the dark elves are decadent and culture, but vampires aren't so much decadent, but more... corrupt, because they are dead... and NEED to feed...
I don't get why people always portray the necromancers as priest with a good view on life, while dungeon are mad bastards who constantly murder, rape and drink blood. Because of thralsa and arantir? (okay, i'm not arguing with Thralsai, because dungeon can be nasty) (but definitely not so much that they have to consort with the living dead to further their ambitions)
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted October 12, 2008 06:12 AM |
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Additionally, the drow dark elves are necessary. Without them, what would Nival have its strippers dress up as?
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted October 12, 2008 11:03 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 12:09, 12 Oct 2008.
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let's make a comparison:
vamps:
- dead
Undeniably.
Quote:
- evil(yes, all vampires are evil, because they kill humans to survive, get it?)
Not necessarily, after all that would makes us evil (we eat meat), along with every other predator on earth. Also tell me where it says that the blood has to come from humans, they could take it from cows (we drink their milk after all).
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- suck blood
Drink blood, which neither necessitates sucking it (can drink it like wine presumably, or eat black pudding), nor precludes eating other foods.
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- human origins
their H5 origin, I don't have to agree with it though.
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- favors longswords
Only in H5, not it any of the previous 3 variants, and this isn't a fixed attribute, nor even a credible one.
- pale and beautiful
Traditionally.
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dark elves:
- alive
Yep.
Quote:
- evil, but not necesarily
Yep.
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- eat like normal peeps
Likely, but not certain.
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- sylvan origins
Yep, but again, I don't have to take the H5 history as absolute canon (indeed H5 breaks with the whole tradition of the series, effectively nullifying everything before it).
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- favors dual wield and stealth combat
As above, a 'really' shoddy reasons, shouldn't be included.
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- pale and beautiful
Yep, like vampires.
Quote:
so... only one thing they share and that's aesthetic appeal? I see...
You have a 'really' blinkered view of the vampires (read some of Terry Pratchett's 'Discworld' books, they provide some interesting insights on not only this subject, but many others as well).
Quote:
Honestly, the dark elves are decadent and culture, but vampires aren't so much decadent, but more... corrupt, because they are dead...
Corruption and decadence often go hand-in-hand.
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and NEED to feed...
And they do this in the Necropolis, how?
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I don't get why people always portray the necromancers as priest with a good view on life, while dungeon are mad bastards who constantly murder, rape and drink blood. Because of thralsa and arantir? (okay, i'm not arguing with Thralsai, because dungeon can be nasty) (but definitely not so much that they have to consort with the living dead to further their ambitions)
I never said that, nor do I think it, but I also don't think the opposite, that the dark elves are merely 'misunderstood', or that the undead (or vampires in this case) are genocidal lunatics, which is the view you seem to take. One's as bad as the other.
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Asheera
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Elite Assassin
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posted October 12, 2008 02:02 PM |
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The thing is, the Elves and Humans have a lot more in common than Dark Elves and Vampires, and still they're in different factions
The mere fact that one is living (Dark Elf) and the other undead (Vampire) makes them 'incompatible' in the same faction IMO.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted October 12, 2008 07:57 PM |
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So... Let me get this straight... Basically, you want to shove Dark Elves and Vampires into the same faction pretty much because they're both generally hot and like dark stuff?
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