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| Thread: New War Machines |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Isabel
Known Hero
Dragonblessed
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posted November 08, 2008 06:57 AM |
bonus applied by alcibiades on 12 Nov 2008. |
Edited by Isabel at 13:47, 12 Nov 2008.
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New War Machines
Well, while everyone has been thinking about new factions and creature, I had some thoughts on war machines. The three war machines (excluding catapult) came from Heroes III, and for Heroes VI, I think we need a new system and more war machines.
I am thinking of a new "Class System". We will have four classes of machines, and generally three of them in each class.
Classes and Machines
Anti-Personnel
This class of war machines aims at dealing damage to hostile troops. These weapons have high initiative and attack.
Ballista: The classic ballista, deals high damage to a single target.
Cheiroballista: A small artillery that shoots multiple bolts. Deals less damage than ballista but has Crossfire ability.
Hwacha: Magical crossbows which has lower initiative, but have No range penalty and deals fire elemental damage.
Elemental Cannon - Unique to Dungeon: A powerful magical cannon that shoots magical blasts containing power of all elements, this is affected by magical protection and resistance, however. It also add +10% to Irresistable Magic.
Flamethrower - Unique to Fortress: A massive tank that casts Firewall repeatedly. Spellpower depends on hero's Knowledge and Attack.
Support
This class of war machines do not deal direct damage, they either buff or debuff. They have limited shots however.
First Aid Tent: This is our old machine that heals friendly troops. Has 3 shots normally.
Armoury: The armoury can cast basic Endurance on a target as the same time cleansing all Vulnerability casted on it. It also add +2 to defense to all creatures. It has three moves.
Flag Wagon: This wagon bears the banner of your army and can 3 times per battle permanently increase or decrease a creature's morale by one. Effect cannot be stacked on a same creature.
Holy Ark - Unique to Haven: The holy ark carries Elrath's blessing and can cast divine guidance three times per battle. Its initiative is very low, however.
Sylanna's Guardian - Unique to Sylvan: A tree that casts basic Regeneration on friendly creatures. Has three shots.
Mana Pool - Unique to Academy: The Pool of Mana can select a target creature or hero to recover 20% (10% for heroes) of their maximum mana. Has six shots.
Passive
This class of machines have automatic effects and do not have ATB value. They mainly improve friendly creatures ability.
Ammo Cart: Nothing new about this, give unlimited shots to shooters.
Magic Amplifier: This is a machine that gives creatures +30% spellpower and give them 1 mana every time their turn comes.
Trap Launcher: The launcher place 4-5 snares at the beginning of battle. These snares always stop the enemy creature from further moving.
Tent of Chaos Shroud - Unique to Inferno: As long as the tent is intact, all gating spots are invisible until they are summoned or the tent is destroyed. This also makes summon troops come 20% faster.
Festering Tent - Unique to Necropolis: This tent lowers the attack and defense of all creatures on field by 2 and morale by 1. Undead creatures are immune to this effect.
Totem - Unique to Stronghold: Stronghold creatures gain +25% rage points in various actions (does not lose more rage points).
Siege
These war machines are for sieging castles only, and under special perks they may have additional effects and may even be able to be deployed in normal combat.
Catapult - The catapult can hurl rocks at castle walls and towers to damage them. It is hard to destroy but doesn't do much damage without corresponding skills.
Portable Ram - The portable ram is a melee-based siege weapon. Though it is slow, on contact it can deal massive damage on walls and can attack creatures if wished. It cannot be stopped by moat, but still take the damage for every tile it crosses.
Underminer - This is a special machine that install mines under castle walls to cause a wide and devastating effect. It deals damage to up to three random buildings every turn.
Arcane Juggernaut - Unique to Academy: At the beginning of siege, this weapon can target a part of wall and destroy it immediately. And each turn after it will destroy a random section of wall or towers.
Skills and Perks
Here comes the Skills and Perks part, the War Machines Skill is upgraded to provide much more effects and extra perks are added to the collection to improve these weapons.
The War Machine skill has a series of effects now:
Basic War Machines: War Machines gain +15% hitpoints. Attack of Anti-Personnel weapons is increased by +3. Support machines gain one more shot. Passive machines have +1 defense. Portable Ram receives Large Shield ability.
Advance War Machines: War Machines gain +25% hitpoints. Attack of Anti-Personnel weapons is increased by +6. Support machines gain three more shots. Passive machines have +2 defense. Portable Ram receives Large Shield and Shield Others ability.
Expert War Machines: War Machines gain +40% hitpoints. Attack of Anti-Personnel weapons is increased by +10. Support machines gain five more shots. Passive machines have +3 defense. Portable Ram receives Large Shield, Shield Others and 50% Magic-Proof ability. Catapult gains one more shot.
Like magic schools, the War Machine skill also has some perks to improve a group of war machines. They are very useful and provide more specific upgrades to your machines. The perks do not target all machines in the same class, though, they have different classification:
Heavy Machineries
Requirements - None
Ballista, Cheiroballista and Catapult gain one more shot. Gives you manual control of these weapons. Portable Ram gains +1 speed and Bash ability.
Magic Machineries
Requirements - None
Hwacha's fire arrow receives the armour damaging effect (like Master of Fire). Magic Amplifier gives one more mana every turn and increases creature's spellpower by 50%. Trap Launcher creates three more snares while Underminer creates one more mine.
Reinforce Machineries
Requirements - None
First Aid Tent can resurrect creatures and heal more. Armoury casts Advance Edurance and has one more cast. Flag Wagon adds +1 luck as well as the morale bonus. Ammo Cart improves shooter's attack by +3.
Triple Ballista
Requirements - Heavy Machineries
Ballista and Cheiroballista gains one more shot. Accumulates with Heavy Machineries perk.
Fiery Explosions
Requirements - Magic Machineries
Catapult gains one more shot (up to 4 shots accumulating from Expert War Machines and Heavy Machineries). Trap Launcher and Underminer set three more snares and one more mine respectively.
War Machines Formation
Requirements - Reinforce Machineries and Triple Ballista
All war machines will now receive +2 attack and defense for every other war machines. Anti-Personnel class weapons will gain one more shot if Ammo Cart is present. Support class machines will gain 2 more actions if Magic Amplifier is present. Siege class weapons will receive +2 to initiative if Trap Launcher is present.
Ark of Elrath
Requirements - Reinforce Machineries and Benediction
Support class machines receive Lay Hand ability, thus can cleanse target of negative effects, they also take 20% damage from spells.
Wall of Urgash
Requirements - Magic Machineries and Mark of the Damned
Enemy creatures take fire damage (25*hero_level) when they attack war machines under the command of the hero.
Mark of Asha
Requirements - Magic Machineries and Mark of the Necromancer
An ability that improves Mark of the Necromancer. The target of this skill suffers poison damage equals to 10*hero_level as long as the Mark is effective. War machines receive Poisonous attack of 5 damage.
Sylanna's Blessing
Requirements - Reinforce Machineries and Elven Luck
Anti-Personnel class weapons receives +50% damage on luck rolls, in addition to the 25% from Elven Luck.
Arkath's Flame
Requirements - Heavy Machineries and Greater Rune
Flamethrower's active spellpower is increased by +5. Anti-personnel weapons inflict extra fire damage equals to 10% of damage dealt.
Rage of Malassa
Requirements - Heavy Machineries and Rage of the Elements
Elemental chain effects inflict triple damage. Elemental Cannon deals 5 times more damage and add +40% to Irresistable Magic.
Father Sky's Wrath
Requirements - Reinforce Machineries, Memory of Our Blood and Storm Wind
Enemy flyers suffer lightning damage every time they move (damage equal to 5*hero_level ). Anti-personnel weapons ingores 10 defense when shooting at flyers.
Mother Earth's Wisdom
Requirements - Father Sky's Wrath
Enemy shooters receive -1 initiative and walkers receive -1 speed penalty. Support class machines give 100 rage points in their actions.
Absolute Resistance
Requirements - Reinforce Machineries, Heavy Machineries, Magic Mirror
All creatures under hero's command are completely immune to magic as long as Mana Pool or Arcane Juggernaut is intact.
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted November 08, 2008 10:32 AM |
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Actually, Cho Ku Nu's were Chinese repeating crossbows, nothing comparable to ballista.
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Isabel
Known Hero
Dragonblessed
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posted November 08, 2008 10:35 AM |
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... Yeah I know, I am think of a big Chu Ko Nu that look likes a multi-layered ballista.
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted November 08, 2008 10:47 AM |
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Maybe Hwacha's?They were Korean Ballista types, exept they were filled with fireworks, now we could use something smiliar to gremlin magic ammo and not gunpowder 
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted November 08, 2008 11:20 AM |
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I like your ideas. And especially the unique war machines, but their should be one for each faction, then...or was this your plan, too?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 08, 2008 11:54 AM |
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Interesting concept, and one I've had myself before, but 12 engines is too many (12 includes the catapult). Also, some of these machines would double up or be redundant, although I'm somewhat supportive of the idea of unique war machines.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted November 08, 2008 12:44 PM |
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I say  to the idea of new War Machines, and the idea of a unique War Machine for each faction is quite refreshing. However, I don't think multi-shooting ballistas are the way forward, the skills (Double) Ballista and Tripple Ballista make those quite redundant.
The idea of having the First Aid Tent cast certain blessings on the units could work, though. I also like the idea of giving the Ballista the option to have some sort of area attack (Crossfire or Explosive Bolts).
The tent that makes all Inferno units invisible is a distinct no-no. Talk about abuse in creeping. 
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What will happen now?
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted November 08, 2008 01:06 PM |
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hmm, you say the healing tent would have shots...how 'bout if it would not use up shots when healing adjacent units. Just as an idea.
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Isabel
Known Hero
Dragonblessed
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posted November 08, 2008 01:16 PM |
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@DarkShadow: Chu Ko Nu is renamed into Hwacha
@Jiriki9: About the unique machines, I am thinking about them, maybe I will post more later.
@MattII: For each class you can only choose one machine, so you can only own up to four war machines (including catapult).
@alci: Removed Double Shoot from Hwacha, No Range Penalty is enough  . And about the tent, I have changed it into making Gating Spot invisible and let summon comes 20% faster.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted November 08, 2008 03:02 PM |
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Awesome ideas
I see you made some War Machines unique to some factions - how about making some more for others as well?
Like:
Plague Tent - Unique to Necro: Casts Weakness, Suffering and Decay on a target enemy creature (well you could set whatever mastery you like so as to prevent it being overpowered - you could also limit its number of shots, of course)
Nature's Healer - Unique to Sylvan: (A magical tree) As long as it is intact, all friendly living troops regenerate a percent of hit points at the start of their turn (like 10% - I don't know what number would be balanced of course)
Resistance Piercer - Unique to Dungeon: Makes a selected target more vulnerable to elemental damage spells, much like the effect of the Elemental Gargoyle, but of course a different number. It can be used multiple times on the same stack and it does stack (finally with this War Machine available maybe the skill would be more useful to Dungeon)
Magical Energy Machine - Unique to Academy: Each of its turn you get to choose either one of your own units to give mana to, or an enemy unit from which you'll drain some mana.
Rune Machine - Unique to Fortress: Refreshes Runes (like using the Refresh Rune ability) on your own creatures, but has a low initiative (and probably limited shots) so as to not be overpowered.
Totem - Unique to Stronghold: Gives some rage points each turn to all your creatures.
Well I know some names are silly though
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted November 08, 2008 03:12 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 15:14, 08 Nov 2008.
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Seeing as how they rip-offed the Dark Elves from Warhammer, they may as well add the Cauldron of Blood as their unique war machine...
Btw it's spelled anti-personnel
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted November 08, 2008 03:14 PM |
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How about battering Rams and Siege Towers?
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Isabel
Known Hero
Dragonblessed
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posted November 08, 2008 03:42 PM |
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@Asheera: Ouch! You have post everything before I do  ... Very good ideas, I think I will use some of them.
@Baklava: Hmm... Sorry for the mispell, I am a Chinese
@Lexxan: We have the same ideas! But I am thinking how they are going to work. If it is a war machine, it better stays at the back row. How is a battering ram going to strike from that distance If they are like normal creatures they take too much spaces...
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted November 08, 2008 04:40 PM |
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No problem, just trying to help Ideas always look better and more serious with good spelling.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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zamfir
Promising
Supreme Hero
Allez allez allez
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posted November 08, 2008 05:46 PM |
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Verry interesting ideas. Adding new war machines would make manadatory the adding of new perks (or even a new skill).
What I would really like to see is a special hero class, the Engineer/Alchemist etc. (as a might hero for Academy or Fortress), profficient with War Machines.
However, only one skill for 12 different War Machines in one game is too little IMO.
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5 Times TV
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted November 08, 2008 06:06 PM |
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How about Siege Towers?They could act as shield, any troops behind them take 20% less damage from ranged Attacks and 10% less from magic attacks, They could also be used for non fliers to get over walls, provided that the tower ever gets to the walls 
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 08, 2008 07:43 PM |
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Quote:
@MattII: For each class you can only choose one machine, so you can only own up to four war machines (including catapult).
That makes a lot more sense.
Quote:
Removed Double Shoot from Hwacha, No Range Penalty is enough .
Couldn't you change it to be more like the original Hwcha, ie, AoE damage rather than just make it another crossbow? Also, you ought to include the catapult, since they could twist the skill to allow it to fire in normal combat (hits a 2*2 space with normal accuracy, friendlies take damage if it hits them).
Also, some good ideas there Asheera.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted November 08, 2008 07:58 PM |
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Quote:
However, only one skill for 12 different War Machines in one game is too little IMO.
Why? You won't be able to have a lot of these War Machines at the same time, so it's like spells - do you consider too many Light (example) spells for only one skill as well?
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Skeleton_King
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted November 08, 2008 08:12 PM |
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It's not that, but each War Machine has it's own perk in HoMM V (meaning primary perk; no prerequisite required except the skill. With 12 War Machines, things can get nasty.
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted November 08, 2008 08:17 PM |
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You know, we're discussing changes here, who said it should be the same?
Perhaps make the following perks instead of the ones we have now:
Anti-Personnel
Support
Passive
And these perks will enhance all war machines in that category
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