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| Thread: The long journey of novice map maper... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Archy
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 21, 2009 07:10 AM |
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Edited by Archy at 20:10, 22 Feb 2009.
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The long journey of a novice map maker...
Hello members. 
I created a lot of maps many years ago while I was a lot younger. I've picked up Heroes 3 again and want to create a map. I think I will ask some questions during that time, and hopefully receive some feedback/testing if I ever finish it. (And I think I will.)
Questions:
- None at the moment...
I want to create a map that: (Utdated)
- Is challenging for all kinds of players
- Has a lot of hidden passages, secret places, artifacts
- Is good balanced
- Created for a single human versus computer
- Has a great/good storyline. (Hoping for some english improvement at later stages)
- Makes it possible to gather huge stacks of creatures if you want to
- Is based an island and big areas with small island scattered across the map.
- Is extra large with upper/lower level (New)
- Something you wanna add?
Map 0.1
[url=http://bildr.no/view/351799] [/url]
Passability: (Spoiler allert!)
[url=http://bildr.no/view/351882] [/url]
Please make suggestions. I think of a storyline like this:
- You are The Dragon Rider, sent to a lonely island by magic from the cruel wizard, Solmyr. You will have to get back to your allies and gather a lot of troops to beat the computer/take dwellings. I will also include a storyline based on friendship, reuniting old friends, finding well-hidden magicians that will give you something spescial, and possible some other things like love and such, but not too cheese of course.
Well. Tell me what YOU like about a map, and what you would love to see in mine. Why do you continue to play a map, and how what should I keep in mind as a noob map maker? Do you have a great idea for map name or for the plot?
Hoping for some feedback here! Not especially on the start of the map, but more for the ideas, plot and other things I've asked you about. THEN you can tell me how to improve my small start of the map. 
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 21, 2009 10:32 AM |
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This looks like a great layout start. You should use Sergroj object.exe editor (it works with all HoMM versions) to enhance your passability and aspect. With it, you can hide those vulcanos UNDER the trees so you will see only smoke, which is a better visual effect. The trees can't be green near a volcano. If you don't hide the vulcano, use dead trees nearby and use lava flow under them to make different terrains overlap looking natural.
You will be amazed what this editor allows for mapmaker. It is a must to have.
Then if you want a great story, be careful with the objects choices from the editor. If you start your story with an awaken hero from a long sleep, you may want to use another object than a market and a sanctuary nearby. Was him imprisoned by Solmyr, use a prison somewhere. Was he magically asleep, use maybe a warrior tomb?
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Era II mods and utilities
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Archy
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 21, 2009 05:04 PM |
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Edited by Archy at 18:07, 21 Feb 2009.
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Thanks for a great reply! This is just the sort of replies I want you to give me. It is important for me to make a good history line because I think that make maps very much enjoyable. I've recently played The Empire of the World II, and even though the history is not that great, it feels really good to play as Maximus. I also like all the secret passages he has built in as it allows you to be amazed by all the secrets along the path.
I'll download that editor right away! Hoping for several more replies, ecspesially about the story. Which castle is the most proper one? Which creatures should be his allies? Which should be the foes? As I enjoy magic a lot, I'm thinking about elfes, but what would be their arch-enemies? If I stick with pikemen, what are theirs? I feel that pikemen has a less distinct emeny. It's also important that the arch-enemy is possible to beat for the human player, so they can't be to powerfull of course. I would need your expertice to make this map nice and balanced.
Which creatures should be suitable for watching dwellings, along with artifacts, castles and the underground? I'm thinking about the elfes going underground for the help of the dwarfes and a hidden elf forest which will give you very much needed creatures. (I've recently read the latest eragon book.  )
Thanks for input, and hoping for more. They don't have to be long. Just tell me if you think something looks wrong, the storyline could be slightly improved or other things that might spring to mind!
Regards, Thomas!
Edit: I've gone through the FAQs and such at this forum looking for the editor you are talking about, but I just can't find it. I've also tried searching for it by google, but no luck there neithter. Could anyone direct me?
Thanks.
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Ednaguy
Supreme Hero
My water just broke! No, wait.
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posted February 21, 2009 06:26 PM |
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Edited by Ednaguy at 18:27, 21 Feb 2009.
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Quote:
Which castle is the most proper one? Which creatures should be his allies? Which should be the foes?
How about doing something a little original, and let one of the "good" towns (Castle, Rampart, Tower) be the evil one? And maybe your allies should be "evil"?
Quote:
I'm thinking about the elfes going underground for the help of the dwarfes and a hidden elf forest which will give you very much needed creatures.
Sounds cool, just don't overdo it.
Quote:
Thanks for input, and hoping for more. They don't have to be long. Just tell me if you think something looks wrong, the storyline could be slightly improved or other things that might spring to mind!
I just wonder how the hero is going to get from the island. There is neither any boat or shipyard.
Quote:
Which creatures should be suitable for watching dwellings, along with artifacts, castles and the underground?
Most likely creatures which are allied to Solmyr, as he is the one responsible for capturing you.
Quote:
Edit: I've gone through the FAQs and such at this forum looking for the editor you are talking about, but I just can't find it. I've also tried searching for it by google, but no luck there neithter. Could anyone direct me?
I don't know where you can download only the editor, but I got the editor together with other stuff here.
I hope this post is to any help
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"Edna, there's a special, tiny, tiny place in hell, waiting just for you... "
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Archy
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 21, 2009 07:09 PM |
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Quote:
How about doing something a little original, and let one of the "good" towns (Castle, Rampart, Tower) be the evil one? And maybe your allies should be "evil"?
Is there any way to get the allies to turn against you? That would be a very nice plot I think. You should beat Solmyr the Wizard and he's army of genius and you have an allied. Suddently the allied turns into a foe and you have to beat him as well!
Quote:
Quote:
I'm thinking about the elfes going underground(...)
Sounds cool, just don't overdo it.
I won't, but as the goal is to beat a lot of genius, or titans, you would need a quite large army. Maybe I'll introduce even more from Eragon as you can find a veeeery well hidden place with a dragon ridero and his single dragon. That would help you to go first in the great battle with higher level creatures you have to beat at the end.
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I just wonder how the hero is going to get from the island. There is neither any boat or shipyard.
Looks like I hid the monk properly enough. At the start you are told by an old man that there's a monk which can teach you great things, but he won't be easy to find. (Look at the south-western side of the island. There's a monk hidden behind the trees that learns you Summon Boat.
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Most likely creatures which are allied to Solmyr, as he is the one responsible for capturing you.
Agreed. I'm thinking eighter genius or titans.
Quote:
I don't know where you can download only the editor, but I got the editor together with other stuff [url=http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=29026]here[/url]
Thank you very much! I allready have Wog installed here, but I don't like it yet. Probably because I'm not into it yet. The editor H3WMapped is the same as the one you link to above?
Quote:
I hope this post is to any help
Extremly helpful! I hope you will keep an eye to my project and help me along the way. I'm not an experienced H3-player, but I learn every day. Your input on balance, resources, artifacts, monsters, spells and map apperence will be vital to me! Hope I'll see you here everytime I post something important and that more of you like this idea. I think we can trully create a beutiful and good map together.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 21, 2009 09:21 PM |
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Don't touch the link from Ednaguy, it links to a patch WoG related.
Use this for a SoD version:
Sergroj object editor
Check the box WoG, Sod; it works for both.
Be careful, not everything is possible.You can change flowers/trees/many objects to look different but some are hardcoded, like seer huts, towns, and a few others. The editor will crash if you try to make a town look as a creature. Just test, there are endless options.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Archy
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 21, 2009 11:20 PM |
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Edited by Archy at 01:17, 22 Feb 2009.
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Just gotta say...
WOOOOOOOOW! I can cover my paths with bare forest, and they are still possible to walk on! I can clearly see that this can't be done for the whole map as I need to give the player a chance, but for the forest you will find the dragon... Impossible to discover!
Hoping for more hints and tips everyone. I will work on the map a several hours and give you some more screenshots.
Edit: This kind of s***s. I used the h3wcmped-editor from WOG and now I can't open the map in the normal editor anymore. I get this message: "Invalid map file version. File version = 51. Current version = 28".
Anyone now how to solve this? I don't want this map to be WOGified and I can't open it with standard H3.
Eighter way... I will continue even if I have to start all over.
Edit 2: Do any of you have msn? Could be fun to talk with others that enjoy heroes. My email is on my profile.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 22, 2009 01:28 AM |
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Your map is lost. Use always a backup after each work session. I told you to not touch at WoG if you want to make a SoD map. Editors are not compatible.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Archy
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 22, 2009 01:49 AM |
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Thanks. I will pay better attention next time. I've learned a lot about the editor while making this map, so it won't be a problem to create another one.
I'll keep you updated as I proced with the new development.
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted February 22, 2009 01:51 AM |
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Bah, go on and make it a WoG map - the possibilities are endless and the fan base is dedicated (if not large  ).
Backups are a must; I often mail different versions of my maps to myself - just in case my computer drops dead.
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Archy
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 22, 2009 02:13 AM |
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I just think WOG is a completly new game, and I play Heroes 3 because of the great memories and funny gameplay. Probably the worst thing for me is that the graphic is boring in WOG, or to colorfull. I just can't stand the new creatures in powerfull colors, and when I go to a treadmill, I want it to give me recourses. I just don't know when playing WOG. (And that's just an example.)
Shouldn't be a problem to open it in WOG-editor and save it in WOG once I've built the map though. Then someone can add Wog-things, or just let the game Wogfify it.
I'll start right now, and maybe I'll post some images before I go to bed.
Thanks
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KaiserYoshi
Hired Hero
It's clobberin' time!
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posted February 22, 2009 02:31 AM |
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Quote:
I HAVE BEEN LOOKING SO HARD FOR THIS
/me wants to hug you, but that would be awkward
Anyway, tips...
I notice you have a ton of trees on that island and not a whole lot of other stuff. Intersperse stuff like mountains, lakes, the "hills" scenery, etc. to keep the map from looking bland. If you're running out of ideas, dig around in other scenery categories (for example, most of the swamp scenery also looks good on grass, try the underground craters and lava on rough, and so on).
And if you like hidden passages (which it seems you do), remember: Rouge Caverns are amazing.
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Archy
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 22, 2009 03:56 PM |
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Thank you very much KaiserYoshi! When I started again yesterday, I deceided to make it a XL-map instead of a large map. I know it'll take forever to get it done, but If it gets too large for me, I can always just make a large desert/hills/anything were I want the map to end.
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Ednaguy
Supreme Hero
My water just broke! No, wait.
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posted February 22, 2009 04:31 PM |
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I won't, but as the goal is to beat a lot of genius, or titans, you would need a quite large army.
Just don't let every battle be against Genies/Titans
Quote:
Maybe I'll introduce even more from Eragon as you can find a veeeery well hidden place with a dragon ridero and his single dragon. That would help you to go first in the great battle with higher level creatures you have to beat at the end.
How about letting the hero be a dragon rider, and start with a dragon as main creature?
Quote:
Quote:
I just wonder how the hero is going to get from the island. There is neither any boat or shipyard.
Looks like I hid the monk properly enough. At the start you are told by an old man that there's a monk which can teach you great things, but he won't be easy to find. (Look at the south-western side of the island. There's a monk hidden behind the trees that learns you Summon Boat.
How could I know that the monk teached you summon boat?
Quote:
Extremly helpful! I hope you will keep an eye to my project and help me along the way. I'm not an experienced H3-player, but I learn every day. Your input on balance, resources, artifacts, monsters, spells and map apperence will be vital to me! Hope I'll see you here everytime I post something important and that more of you like this idea. I think we can trully create a beutiful and good map together.
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"Edna, there's a special, tiny, tiny place in hell, waiting just for you... "
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted February 22, 2009 04:44 PM |
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Well, I don't want to be devil's lawyer, but if you use WoG and have only very basic knowledge of ERM (or copy/paste scripts already done) you can construct a bridge, set a nice sound effect when it appears, then walk elsewhere.
Learning summon boat when level 1 can stuck you forever in that land, as you need:
Magic book
Expert water( if not have, then the summon spell may fail and run fast out of mana points)
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Era II mods and utilities
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Ednaguy
Supreme Hero
My water just broke! No, wait.
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posted February 22, 2009 04:50 PM |
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Or you can just give him the Sea Captain's hat which is even easier
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"Edna, there's a special, tiny, tiny place in hell, waiting just for you... "
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Archy
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 22, 2009 06:18 PM |
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Edited by Archy at 20:03, 22 Feb 2009.
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The hero starts out with a spell book and there is a well were you can get spell points. I diden't realised you needed Expert water magic to summon a boat, but that's why I got you guys.
Sea captain's hat. I will introduce it right now.
I'm also giving the player a lot of hints and tips. I will post a screen shot of the new map and explain a little:
[url=http://bildr.no/view/351799][/url]
SPOILERS: (If you want to play the map later on without knowing it's secrets)
Passability: (Edit: Wrong map last time)
[url=http://bildr.no/view/351882][/url]
There's a small passage to the left right after you start the map. I'll put a minor artifact there you may trade for something later on. I want this map to be possible to play fast if you want, but with lot to discover for those who want that.
An event at the lake tells you to look for something to summon a boat. The one halfling to the left is suposed to be a little boy who is a really god digger. He tells you he dug several holes up north, and you are told it could even fit you and your horse. He ask to join you because he wants to be a worrier, and if you let him, the seer's hut will give you a reward if you bring him. (+1 defense artifact)
The event in front of the obelisk ask you "Gone fishing? and you get a -1 morale because your troops thinks you are wasting time. That's just to distract you from discovering the hole right up which is a "tunel" to the other hole with the sea captain's hat. Kind of need a way to give you a feeling of entering a tunnel, because the flag on the horse is going through the woods right now. Any ideas?
At the forest to the left with the skeleton hides a clover of fortune. You pick it up for good luck because you feel lost in the forest. The remains of a man next to you tells you he wasen't that lucky finding out of there.
In most southern forest, you are attacked by a single tree because you are entering the forest. If you win, you get an axe and chop down some woods as a revenge.
There is a magical field behind the fire to the west of the island. You will get View air there so you can discover the hidden artifacts location.
That's all the hidden places in the island till now. I don't know if I'll add more, what do you think? You think that is suitable and short stories that gives the map something extra?
Hoping for suggestions.
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Ednaguy
Supreme Hero
My water just broke! No, wait.
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posted February 22, 2009 06:27 PM |
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Quote:
I diden't realised you needed Expert water magic to summon a boat, but that's why I got you guys.
You don't, it's just that if you have no mastery you only have a 50% chance to summon a boat, and there has to be an unoccupied boat nearby. But with Sea Captain's hat, you will always get a boat, even if there is no free boat on the map.
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"Edna, there's a special, tiny, tiny place in hell, waiting just for you... "
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Archy
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 22, 2009 07:27 PM |
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Last post's updated with images and spoilers for the new map start.
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ByteBandit
Promising
Famous Hero
Soul Merchant
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posted February 23, 2009 06:52 AM |
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I'm with Vlaad here. C'mon..... make it a WoG map. Better yet, make an SoD and a WoG version! :-)
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