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| Thread: The Dictatorial Dictator's Dictatorship of North Korea |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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TheDeath
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posted April 05, 2009 11:46 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 23:47, 05 Apr 2009.
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The US used nukes and saved innocent lives. I'd hardly think that North Korea's nukes would do the same, though.
Will you stop with this "my word is law" bull****?
Ask the japanese in WW2 if the nukes were any good. Get your answer.
Why not ask the North Koreans now? Why the USA? The same dudes who highly suspected Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (hint: US boys, look into America continent for those  ).
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If you don't pick sides on US vs. Russia, you have no idea what you're talking about. As someone who's lived in both the US and Russia, I'd say that US is much better. And it never did as bad of things as Russia did.
Yeah, I pick sides. Whenever the sides are "live well" or "get nuked", the choice is clear.
If you pick sides, it's easier to become a hypocrite. And I don't pick sides. As long as USA has nukes it has no right to prevent others, if it doesn't want to become the "totalitarian police state of the world".
And frankly mvass, your opinion is no better than anyone who says North Korea is better, or Russia is better. I thought you were better than this at debating. Cause opinion-wars are pointless so I'll get out of this thread until that's over.
As for the genocide, I already mentioned what is in this context and completely unrelated. Why do I always have to repeat myself?
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blizzardboy
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posted April 05, 2009 11:49 PM |
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Depends what you mean by "bad", in this context, which is 'deviousness' and hypocrisy I would say it is similar.
It's not hypocrisy. There are two sides in conflict with one another in this case: North Korea and the United States. Both of these sides don't want the other side to have an advantage over them. Obviously the U.S. has a massive advantage, and it wants to keep it that way. That's how conflict works. Nations in conflict with one another aren't pen pals. I mean not only are the U.S. and N. Korea in conflict, but they're technically still at war; they're just in a ceasefire that has been going on for decades.
Should the U.S. back off? I believe so. But even if they don't, it's still not hypocrisy.
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Lexxan
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posted April 05, 2009 11:51 PM |
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The US never genocided seven million people. Or purged a greater amount. Or starved an even greater amount with bad policies.
Yes, but those were all traitors. Wouldn't it be a good cause to eliminate everyone who betrayed the wise Governement.
The above line is, as you would have realized, how they really though. What Blizzz meant was that the Soviet Union (it's not Russia) never saw it's own actions as bad or evil. The executed people where the bad guys; because they didn't support the glorious regime (and if you don't support it, then you're against it!).
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mvassilev
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posted April 05, 2009 11:52 PM |
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TheDeath:
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Ask the japanese in WW2 if the nukes were any good. Get your answer.
Ask the Japanese how much more death and destruction there would have been if they had been invaded instead of nuked.
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If you pick sides, it's easier to become a hypocrite. And I don't pick sides.
If you don't pick sides, you're a hypocrite. Because then you're saying that North Korea and the United States are equally bad - which is certainly not true.
Lexx:
Actually, many of the victims were never thought to be guilty in the first place. They were just crazy.
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TheDeath
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posted April 05, 2009 11:53 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 23:55, 05 Apr 2009.
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BUT THE USA IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A TOTALITARIAN STATE OR IT DOESN'T CLAIM THAT.
What's so hard to get?
Yes Stalin thought it was doing it for the good of it, via totalitarian means.
The USA doesn't advertise that image. That's why I have a problem with it. Period.
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Ask the Japanese how much more death and destruction there would have been if they had been invaded instead of nuked.
I did, in some past forums. Obviously it's opinionated. That's the whole point of it isn't it? You seem to have a problem bringing your opinion as truth though.
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If you don't pick sides, you're a hypocrite. Because then you're saying that North Korea and the United States are equally bad - which is certainly not true.
What happened to you mvass? You sound like you're using opinions and subjectivity to influence truth (true/false) or something measurable?
If that is so, prove it.
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mvassilev
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posted April 05, 2009 11:54 PM |
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BUT THE USA IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE A TOTALITARIAN STATE OR IT DOESN'T CLAIM THAT.
Claim what? That innocent people shouldn't be threatened or blown up for no reason?
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Yes Stalin thought it was doing it for the good of it, via totalitarian means.
Lol, yeah. Grandpa Stalin - always thinking of the good of the people.
Wake up.
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blizzardboy
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posted April 05, 2009 11:56 PM |
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Being a constitutional republic doesn't mean that the country has to be pacifist. IF the U.S. claimed that it was a pacifist carebear that only ever hugged people, then it would be hypocrisy. The U.S. has never made that claim.
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TheDeath
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posted April 05, 2009 11:57 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 23:57, 05 Apr 2009.
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Claim what? That innocent people shouldn't be threatened or blown up for no reason?
Nice job masking it, no it's about claiming that it is totalitarian.
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Lol, yeah. Grandpa Stalin - always thinking of the good of the people.
Wake up.
mvass, that's what blizzardboy said, that everyone thinks it's doing it for the good of it as an argument why USA is not a hypocrite. That's what I've been replying to it? Will you finally come down to your senses? 
@blizzardboy: No I was talking about totalitarianism, not pacifism.
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mvassilev
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posted April 05, 2009 11:58 PM |
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But the US isn't totalitarian.
As for Blizzardboy, I think if he literally means that, he's wrong. No one claims to be evil, of course. But not everyone is actually thinking of the good of the people.
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Lexxan
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posted April 06, 2009 12:00 AM |
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If you pick sides, it's easier to become a hypocrite. And I don't pick sides.
If you don't pick sides, you're a hypocrite.
How's that hypocrite? That's the same logic as with the Soviet Doctrine of "If you don't support us, you defy us". I think it's pretty possible that you would prefer not to stick your nose into this business or to take sides at all. China in particular needs both it's ties with the USA and with it's "brother" North Korea. Hypocrite? I wouldn't say so? Opportunistic and cowardly? Certainly so.
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Because then you're saying that North Korea and the United States are equally bad - which is certainly not true.
And where has he said that? Evenso, I clearly wish to state that North Korea is FAR a worse country than the USA. Bad or Evil? No, you have to explain to me how countries can be bad. They's just bordered pieces of land. The Government of North Korea is ideologically blinded, Megalomaniac, Arrogant, Neglective and Egocentric. That's just plain bad.
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TheDeath
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posted April 06, 2009 12:04 AM |
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But the US isn't totalitarian.
Sure it's not. Restricting them, threating them, etc... this isn't totalitarian, it's freedom!
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mvassilev
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posted April 06, 2009 12:05 AM |
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How's that hypocrite?
It's hypocritical to say that there is nothing to choose from between the US and North Korea, and then berate the US for being totalitarian.
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No, you have to explain to me how countries can be bad.
Standard of living, foreign policy, etc.
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Lexxan
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posted April 06, 2009 12:10 AM |
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But the US isn't totalitarian.
Sure it's not. Restricting them, threating them, etc... this isn't totalitarian, it's freedom!
Yes, and you know why? To keep the peace and order of the treaties that all countries had agreed upon. Even one country (or one individual for that matter) that defies, even ignores those rules, can cause mayhem to the whole world. If you would know what really was at stake, you would gladly tolerate the USA's overbearing attittude. Criticizing is so incredably easy.
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blizzardboy
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posted April 06, 2009 12:10 AM |
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Sure it's not. Restricting them, threating them, etc... this isn't totalitarian, it's freedom!
N. Korea is not a United States citizen, and even if it was, the U.S. would not grant them the power to wield nuclear weapons. If you think that's totalitarian, then fine.
I think this discussion is becoming pretty chaotic and the different messages people are sending are becoming muddied, so let me restate my position:
I believe the U.S. foreign policy is dangerous and bad, and I think the U.S. should back off and stop playing such a huge role throughout the world. I also believe that N. Korea is an economically corrupt and dangerous country, and I think they are a worse nation than the U.S.
Although I disagree with U.S. foreign policy, I do not think it's hypocritical that the U.S. is trying to corner N. Korea and prevent them from making nukes. The USA thinks N. Korea is bad, and N. Korea thinks the USA is bad. Both of these nations are in conflict with one another, and that's what happens in conflict.
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mvassilev
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posted April 06, 2009 12:13 AM |
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TheDeath
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posted April 06, 2009 12:24 AM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 00:26, 06 Apr 2009.
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Yes, and you know why? To keep the peace and order of the treaties that all countries had agreed upon. Even one country (or one individual for that matter) that defies, even ignores those rules, can cause mayhem to the whole world. If you would know what really was at stake, you would gladly tolerate the USA's overbearing attittude. Criticizing is so incredably easy.
You know, this is exactly what I was talking about. What rules? That North Korea doesn't have the right to ICBMs while USA swims in them? Of course USA and probably others will make the rules. Heck, if they were all nazis, they will also make the rule "All Jews don't have the right to breathe".
Unless God made those rules...
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Standard of living, foreign policy, etc.
This is exactly what I am afraid of: that people like you get to tell others how to live, what's "good" in their lives and what's bad, and why a certain nation deserves to have something while another doesn't. And you know what? I wouldn't have as much of a problem with this if you claimed you were a dictator. At least then I would understand.
I mean seriously can't you see what you're saying? How the hell is that different than something like this:
"I know exactly what's good for the world, standard of living and my ideas of freedom, which apparently, are that only those which agree with me are allowed to have certain, objects, or nukes as we call them. I know exactly what's good for the world and we're gonna purge the inpurities in the genes."
"Oh and the North Koreans are not allowed to have nukes like we do. Oh and Jews don't have the right to breathe like we do."
Again the rules are even more hypocritical when USA "breaks" them by having nukes. Also ANY rule stating a nation is biased and hypocritical. Saying "North Korea is not allowed to have nukes but USA is" is one example. If you don't want to be hypocritical, then stop pointing fingers. The words "USA" and "North Korea" in a rule are exactly that though.
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N. Korea is not a United States citizen
Thanks but Jews were not German Nazi citizens either!
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blizzardboy
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posted April 06, 2009 12:29 AM |
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So the people that resisted Nazi or Soviet control were totalitarians, because they were suppressing the Nazis and Soviets will to do what want, and ergo were telling them that their own way was superior? Wrong.
It's a pretty simple logic: the U.S. is more responsible with nukes than they believe N. Korea or Iran will be. That argument may or may not be flawed, but the premise of the argument makes sense. Are you saying if a genocidal serial killer made a nuke, that we shouldn't forcefully take it away from him?
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TheDeath
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posted April 06, 2009 12:36 AM |
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That's the difference, North Korea has done nothing yet that would do something which USA doesn't have. And last I checked it initiated no aggression either. So no, it's all just assumptions that it will use them. Why can't North Korea also assume USA will use them and consider it a threat? Huh? What makes USA's and its allies' assumptions more valid?
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blizzardboy
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posted April 06, 2009 12:42 AM |
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Why can't North Korea also assume USA will use them and consider it a threat?[
It can, and it does.
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Huh? What makes USA's and its allies' assumptions more valid?
Nothing. Although N. Korea is rather coy with S. Korea and Japan. A little history lesson: they started this fight.
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del_diablo
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posted April 06, 2009 01:05 AM |
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On the other hand, anticommunism is important.
Your not helping. A bit(i don't got the %)of Europa is already halfway there.
Another note: The question is when somebody will get tired of the US throwing bullsnow and entering wars and actually invade it or do a trade block(= war).
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