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| Thread: [MOD] building costs.... | |
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fiur
Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
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posted April 11, 2009 05:03 PM |
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Edited by fiur at 23:19, 13 Apr 2009.
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[MOD] building costs....
Update 13. April
Treant Arches 6 4000 15 5 3 5 Removed
Treant Arches 6 4000 5 2 2 2
1.1
download 1.1
well I guess this is like throwing petrol onto the fire but I'll doit anyway.....
after close to 450 games played and making a few maps...
I got sick and tired of some of the building costs for heroes V
so I dived deep into the costs sheets and came up with this:
building costs microsoft excel
building costs changes
Building costs mod heroes V
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 11, 2009 05:22 PM |
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You have my vote of confidence, besides Nival's way of balancing the game through resource costs is obviously flawed. Badly so.
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Clay_Man
Known Hero
TOH gamer
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posted April 11, 2009 08:35 PM |
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Well though-over mod 
If anyone wanna use it vs me, feel free to ask, maybe once in a lifetime I'll see ghost dragons in action... 
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted April 11, 2009 08:57 PM |
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Hmm, in-depth analysis is evident. Great job again, Fiur  I don't know the details about balancing but it should look better than original version... Maybe some experienced heroes economist can comment on the amendments?
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 11, 2009 09:48 PM |
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Instead of fixing the Arcane Archer you make the building a lot more expensive? Worst fix ever, no offense.
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No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 11, 2009 09:54 PM |
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Don't mind death, his posts tend to miss the whole point.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 11, 2009 09:59 PM |
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Give me the whole point then.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 11, 2009 10:23 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 22:24, 11 Apr 2009.
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My sincerest apologies, apparently it was me that did not read your post carefully. I thought you were complaining about the mod making structures more expensive which sounded weird to say the least.
Either way ore and mercury are sylvan's least problem and as for crystal you will notice that it has been reduced in treant arches, stone circle and dragon shrine. In fact you spend less in early weeks which gives this faction a sigh of relief. To compensate the dragon upgrade is harder to obtain as it should be.
@strider
I am an aspiring economist, will that do?  Have not checked the chart carefully, will post specifics a little later.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 11, 2009 10:24 PM |
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No problem, and no I haven't analyzed it on the whole, that "Town Level 9" grabbed my attention to look at that one, that's why I only commented on that
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted April 11, 2009 10:48 PM |
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Fiur's plan was to make early town development easier and move part of the resource costs to upgrading instead. Overall the requirements have been lowered so it should be more multiplayer friendly, after all many of the initial costs were uneven or downright preposterous.
Stronghold.
A little less wood/ore/mercury and wyvern upgrade cheaper, I suppose we can all agree that it was needed. Ore and mercury demand was too high.
Academy.
Less sulfur for mages, I hated paying 10 for a basic dwelling. Less gems for rakshasas, also nice and slightly reduced cost for colossi.
Dungeon.
Trade guild's price increased but it was too cheap in the first place. Blackies now require less sulfur/crystal, seems reasonable. Some gold costs slightly increased, can't say that I mind. Dungeon's early economy was never demanding since you don't need to recruit army.
Haven.
Generous wood/ore reduction, I suppose it was needed. I never built much less upgraded footmen with those resource costs. Now haven can afford bringing squires in early fights.
Inferno.
Thank goodness a lot less wood for hellhounds. Minor gold tweaks, sacrificial pit less resource intensive and overall significant sulfur reduction, just what the faction needed.
Necro.
A little more expensive but it makes perfect sense if you check the prices for other towns. Not to mention how you get free troops. Significantly less mercury/wood/ore and a little less sulfur. very nice.
Sylvan.
Slightly increased costs as expected, too cheap dwellings. Less wood and basically what I said above.
Fortress.
Someone heard my prayers, thanes finally require 10 crystals to build And upgrade a little more, wonder why Nival never thought of that.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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fiur
Promising
Supreme Hero
Map Creator
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posted April 12, 2009 12:04 AM |
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ty Elvin for your analysis...
I'll try to explain the Hunters Lodge costs once for all
well Elvin explanied the mecrury/sulfur part (thats not needed for sylvan so not that hard to get)
Why you need town lvl.9 (should be obvious) no early game abuse of arcane arcers...(I was actually planning to make it aquire lvl.12)
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted April 12, 2009 12:16 AM |
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Quote:
Why you need town lvl.9 (should be obvious) no early game abuse of arcane arcers...(I was actually planning to make it aquire lvl.12)
This breaks the balance with other factions. Why don't you instead nerf the AA?
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted April 12, 2009 08:14 AM |
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Quote:
Why you need town lvl.9 (should be obvious) no early game abuse of arcane arcers...(I was actually planning to make it aquire lvl.12)
Yes, this breaks the balance with other factions. On 2m Will Hagash come to my town middle week 2 ! With what army i must fight back orcs ? I need early zone breach too...
Quote:
Haven.
Generous wood/ore reduction, I suppose it was needed. I never built much less upgraded footmen with those resource costs. Now haven can afford bringing squires in early fights.
Strange, on 2m my first dwelling for haven is footman dwelling and next turn upgrade coming ...
But i don't care match, i not use any mods anyway ... GL @ HF
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted April 12, 2009 09:40 AM |
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Good explanation, aspiring economist 
And what do you and others think about EXACT cost values? I mean, even amount of 1-2 resources could decide yes/no for building decision in average game.
Perhaps the best would be just to test the mod in action!
Also, i'm sure that Fiur has made changes considering the "general" map played on TOH. And still, in last Caesars game on quite meager Twilight i was able to build castle, dragons and thanes on week 2 (not that it helped me much hehe). In other words, what is this average resource income of "general" TOH map in week1 (critical) and week2?
For instance, if it is easier for sylvan to build basic dwellings then that is all they need - guaranteed population for later upgrade. In this sense their power has been increased (except for arcanes). Btw, same goes for sturdy dwarfs as well... I hope you see the nature of my contemplations as such changes dramatically influence balance of opening game (creeping, army size in final). What do you think about this?
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Clay_Man
Known Hero
TOH gamer
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posted April 12, 2009 10:18 AM |
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Edited by Clay_Man at 10:18, 12 Apr 2009.
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I don't think it will alter the gameplay too much. Even with reduced cost, usually you won't build, for instance, wyverns week 2 or footmen on week 2. This mod imo makes easier to build troops on week 3 that you usually skip on week 2. Not to mention irritating things like wasting 15 rare res. to build sacrificial pit  , needed some balancing.
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