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| Thread: Official Monster Strength Rankings List |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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dragonsister
Hero of Order
MapHaven administrator
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posted January 14, 2002 06:56 AM |
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I don't know why the tavern rankings of creatures differ from what *we'd* give, but ...
The latest HOMM4 interview mentioned adjustment of creature stats during playtesting. This is something that will also have happened for HOMM3. So the creatures won't always have had the ranking order that they currently have ...
Could the tavern rankings have been determined *before* the creature stats were fixed? They'd then be roughly right, but not perfectly. And fixing that wouldn't be a high-priority task.
DragonSister
http://heroes.mycomport.com/
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zanshin
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 17, 2002 12:20 AM |
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how much????
Zaronij has done a lot of work here - full credit for that.
Idle thought - does the list equate to the ascending gp cost of units?
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Rhyanna
Adventuring Hero
Queen of the Harpies!
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posted December 16, 2004 11:34 PM |
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Quote:
Could the tavern rankings have been determined *before* the creature stats were fixed? They'd then be roughly right, but not perfectly. And fixing that wouldn't be a high-priority task.
great theory Dragonsister  seems the best one for this...
Theres the possibility that when they made the game though, they wanted the tavern to be a touch unreliable?
For example... isn't a bartender more afraid of a devil than an angel?
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I can resist anything but temptation
- Oscar Wilde
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted December 17, 2004 03:29 AM |
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not if its a satanic tavern 
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Rhyanna
Adventuring Hero
Queen of the Harpies!
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posted December 17, 2004 03:39 AM |
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Quote:
not if its a satanic tavern
damned communistic satanists.
then again, if i was protected by familiars...
i'd be afraid of hydras
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I can resist anything but temptation
- Oscar Wilde
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GabyStan
Known Hero
Seeking Wisdom
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posted November 06, 2005 03:03 PM |
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Quote:
Idle thought - does the list equate to the ascending gp cost of units?
No, obviously not. Plus, a creature varies in efficacy depending on the situation, that's why it is impossible to tell which creature is best overall.
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Your worst enemy is... yourself.
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Evil_Warrior
Famous Hero
Duke of Demon
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posted January 18, 2006 04:14 PM |
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Quote:
I apologize if this has already been posted before, but I'm not sure if someone else would actually do what I did and spend time getting this info. I don't have a life and like making all sorts of weird lists  Right now, I'm working on a Lufia 2 list...I'm organizing everything in the game by lowest-highest xp. The following *is* official even though it looks really strange (well it does to me).
Peasant (n)
Gremlin (1)
Imp (1)
Pixie (1)
Gnoll (1)
Troglodyte (1)
Familiar (1u)
Goblin (1)
Skeleton (1)
Master Gremlin (1u)
Halfling (n)
Hobgoblin (1u)
Pikeman (1)
Infernal Troglodyte (1u)
Skeleton Warrior (1u)
Gnoll Marauder (1u)
Sprite (1u)
Walking Dead (2)
Centaur (1)
Halberdier (1u)
Lizardman (2)
Archer (2)
Zombie (2u)
Wolf Rider (2)
Rogue (n)
Centaur Captain (1u)
Dwarf (2)
Boar (n)
Harpy (2)
Lizard Warrior (2u)
Gog (2)
Stone Gargoyle (2)
Marksman (2u)
Orc (3)
Obsidian Gargoyle (2u)
Wolf Raider (2u)
Battle Dwarf (2u)
Wood Elf (3)
Harpy Hag (2u)
Orc Chieftain (3u)
Magog (2u)
Stone Golem (3)
Wight (3)
Serpent Fly (3)
Mummy (n)
Dragon Fly (3u)
Wraith (3u)
Water Elemental (3)
Earth Elemental (5)
Grand Elf (3u)
Beholder (3)
Nomad (n)
Fire Elemental (3)
Griffin (3)
Air Elemental (2)
Hellhound (3)
Evil Eye (3u)
Ice Elemental (3u)
Cerberus (3u)
Iron Golem (3u)
Ogre (4)
Demon (4)
Swordsman (4)
Royal Griffin (3u)
Energy Elemental (4u)
Horned Demon (4u)
Monk (5)
Storm Elemental (2u)
Magma Elemental (5u)
Medusa (4)
Dendroid Guard (5)
Pegasi (4)
Silver Pegasi (4u)
Basilisk (4)
Vampire (4)
Magi (4)
Medusa Queen (4u)
Sharpshooter (n)
Crusader (4u)
Gold Golem (n)
Ogre Magi (4u)
Archmagi (4u)
Greater Basilisk (4u)
Zealot (5u)
Pit Fiend (5)
Diamond Golem (n)
Vampire Lord (4u)
Dendroid Soldier (5u)
Minotaur (5)
Lich (5)
Genie (5)
Gorgon (5)
Master Genie (5u)
Troll (n)
Roc (5)
Mighty Gorgon (5u)
Minotaur King (5u)
Power Lich (5u)
Thunderbird (5u)
Enchanter (n)
Pit Lord (5u)
Cyclops (6)
Wyvern (6)
Cyclops King (6u)
Wyvern Monarch (6u)
Manticore (6)
Scorpicore (6u)
Psychic Elemental (6)
Efreet (6)
Unicorn (6)
Efreet Sultan (6u)
Cavalier (6)
Magic Elemental (6u)
Naga (6)
War Unicorn (6u)
Black Knight (6)
Champion (6u)
Dread Knight (6u)
Naga Queen (6u)
Behemoth (7)
Bone Dragon (7)
Giant (7)
Hydra (7)
Firebird (7)
Ghost Dragon (7u)
Red Dragon (7)
Green Dragon (7)
Angel (7)
Devil (7)
Chaos Hydra (7u)
Ancient Behemoth (7u)
Phoenix (7u)
Archdevil (7u)
Titan (7u)
Gold Dragon (7u)
Black Dragon (7u)
Archangel (7u)
Faerie Dragon (n)
Rust Dragon (n)
Crystal Dragon (n)
Azure Dragon (n)
Things like
Energy Elemental (4u)
Horned Demon (4u)
Monk (5)
Storm Elemental (2u)
Magma Elemental (5u)
really amaze me personally. As does
Dendroid Guard (5)
Pegasi (4)
and
Earth Elemental (5)
Grand Elf (3u)
Beholder (3)
The following doesn't seem to be too balanced by itself
Ghost Dragon (7u)
Red Dragon (7)
Green Dragon (7)
Angel (7)
Devil (7)
Edit: revived!@
I think :
Mighty Gorgon is stronger than Minotaur King
Dread Knight is stronger than Naga Queen
Titan is Stronger than Black and Gold Dragon
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rainalcar
Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
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posted November 14, 2008 04:52 PM |
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I never saw this thread before. Zaronji was right with his table, but it seems he never discovered numerical values for each creature. Also, I've never seen anyone else solving this problem.
What I can say is that the list Zaronji posted is identical to the list of creatures based on experience gained on the Altar of Sacrifice. Here it is:
Azure Dragon 9855
Crystal Dragon 4915
Rust Dragon 3300
Fairy Dragon 2445
Archangel 1095
Black Dragon 1090
Gold Dragon 1075
Titan 935
Archdevil 885
Phoenix 840
Ancient Behemoth 770
Chaos Hydra 740
Devil 635
Angel 625
Green Dragon 605
Ghost Dragon 585
Red Dragon 585
Firebird 565
Hydra 515
Giant 460
Bone Dragon 420
Behemoth 395
Naga Queen 355
Dread Knight 295
Champion 260
Black Knight 260
War Unicorn 250
Naga 250
Magic Elemental 250
Cavalier 240
Efreet Sultan 230
Unicorn 225
Efreet 205
Psychic Elemental 205
Scorpicore 195
Manticore 190
Wyvern Monarch 185
Cyclops King 180
Wyvern 165
Cyclops 155
Pit Lord 150
Enchanter 150
Thunderbird 135
Power Lich 130
Minotaur King 130
Roc 125
Mighty Gorgon 125
Troll 125
Master Genie 115
Genie 110
Gorgon 110
Lich 105
Dendroid Soldier 100
Minotaur 100
Pit Fiend 95
Vampire Lord 95
Diamond Golem 95
Zealot 90
Archmage 85
Greater Basilisk 85
Ogre Mage 80
Gold Golem 75
Crusader 70
Mage 70
Medusa Queen 70
Sharpshooter 70
Silver Pegasi 65
Vampire 65
Basilisk 65
Monk 60
Pegasi 60
Dendroid Guard 60
Horned Demon 60
Medusa 60
Storm Elemental 60
Magma Elemental 60
Royal Griffin 55
Swordsman 55
Demon 55
Energy Elemental 55
Iron Golem 50
Ogre 50
Cerberi 45
Evil Eye 45
Ice Elemental 45
Griffin 40
Grand Elf 40
Hell Hound 40
Beholder 40
Air Elemental 40
Fire Elemental 40
Earth Elemental 40
Nomad 40
Wraith 35
Dragon Fly 35
Water Elemental 35
Stone Golem 30
Magog 30
Wight 30
Orc Chieftain 30
Serpent Fly 30
Mummy 30
Battle Dwarf 25
Wood Elf 25
Obsidian Gargoyle 25
Harpy Hag 25
Wolf Raider 25
Marksman 20
Stone gargoyle 20
Orc 20
Archer 15
Centaur Captain 15
Dwarf 15
Gog 15
Zombie 15
Harpy 15
Wolf Rider 15
Lizardman 15
Lizard Warrior 15
Rogue 15
Boar Rider 15
Pikeman 10
Halberdier 10
Centaur 10
Skeleton Warrior 10
Walking Dead 10
Infernal Troglodyte 10
Gnoll Marauder 10
Sprite 10
Gremlin 5
Master Gremlin 5
Imp 5
Familiar 5
Skeleton 5
Troglodyte 5
Goblin 5
Hobgoblin 5
Gnoll 5
Pixie 5
Halfling 5
Peasant 0
A few remarks:
Peasant value of 0 truly means that even if you sacrifice 10000 Peasants on the Altar - you will gain 0 experience. This is because of rounding down for each creature.
The importance of the list I posted is not only with regards to Altar of Sacrifice - more so, it is an empirical way to determine the number of stack you will face in the battle (with some restrictions):
Army’s strength compared to enemy / Enemy stacks in battle based on tile type
0 – 50% 7 7 6
50 – 67% 7 6 5
67 – 100% 6 5 4
100 – 150% 5 4 3
150 – 200% 4 3 2
> 200% 3 2 1
This info is already included in the revision of my strategy manual from Tribute to Strategists thread (which has grown considerably), and will be posted soon.
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tyraxor
Adventuring Hero
Ruler of the burning Desert
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posted November 23, 2008 09:10 PM |
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All these rankings doesn't matter anyway. A good fighting mentality, a healthy potion of bloodthirst, fur underwear, a spiked mace and lots of screaming is all you need to win a fight!Well okay, it depends on your enemy to,,
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rainalcar
Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
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posted November 23, 2008 10:17 PM |
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It would matter if the correct formula for "strength" was known. Then it would help in calculating joins and stack numbers. However, it is not known, A/D (of hero too) certainly affect it, HP too.
But most of all, its the urge to know
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BAD
Promising
Known Hero
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posted November 24, 2008 03:54 AM |
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Edited by BAD at 03:54, 24 Nov 2008.
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Well, my tests that I did long ago are based on fight between each other, not using experience value or something else.
I've finished the tests and these are my conclusions(the test have been finished without the hourglass of evil and spirit of opression)
Those tests have been made by units speed and by attacker unit will move first even if its speed its less that defender's speed.Normaly the tests should be made only by unit speed.That's why Arch Devil is more closer to Arch Angel.:
Rating (10 rounds)
N Creature Rating
1 Arch Angel +123,10
2 Arch Devil +121,42
3 Titan +118,46
4 Black Dragon +117,09
5 Ancient Behemoth +116,87
6 Gold Dragon +115,96
7 Angel +109,48
8 Chaos Hydra +108,36
9 Devil +107,08
10 Ghost Dragon +106,36
11 Red Dragon +103,92
12 Phoenix +103,60
13 Green Dragon +100,27
14 Giant +96,00
15 Behemoth +94,46
16 Firebird +94,42
17 Hydra +93,28
18 Bone Dragon +91,04
19 Dread Knight +86,73
20 Naga Queen +84,34
21 Champion +80,58
22 Black Knight +79,01
23 War Unicorn +76,10
24 Efreet Sultan +75,39
25 Magic Elemental +74,52
26 Naga +73,46
27 Cavalier +71,14
28 Scorpicore +69,84
29 Efreet +68,32
30 Unicorn +65,99
31 Wyvern Monarch +64,73
32 Cyclop King +64,56
33 Psychic Elemental +60,01
34 Cyclop +57,98
35 Manticore +56,08
36 Mighty Gorgon +55,77
37 Wyvern +51,85
38 Thunderbird +48,08
39 Minotaur King +47,79
40 Vampire Lord +44,06
41 Power Lich +42,35
42 Gorgon +40,81
43 Roc +38,42
44 Pit Lord +36,81
45 Zealot +35,94
46 Master Genie +35,41
47 Minotaur +34,45
48 Lich +31,53
49 Genie +29,19
50 Pit Fiend +27,47
51 Dendroid Soldier +23,83
52 Arch Mage +22,10
53 Monk +21,59
54 Greater Basilisk +17,43
55 Dendroid Guard +13,73
56 Ogre Mage +13,50
57 Mage +11,58
58 Crusader +10,54
59 Magma Elemental +4,76
60 Horned Demon +3,01
61 Vampire +2,89
62 Medusa Queen +2,54
63 Silver Pegasus -0,09
64 Basilisk -1,72
65 Ogre -5,47
66 Swordsman -6,81
67 Demon -7,38
68 Cerberus -10,86
69 Medusa -11,63
70 Pegasus -13,49
71 Energy Elemental -13,50
72 Earth Elemental -15,17
73 Ice Elemental -20,17
74 Storm Elemental -20,91
75 Fire Elemental -21,29
76 Evil Eye -23,11
77 Iron Golem -24,81
78 Grand Elf -26,01
79 Air Elemental -28,85
80 Water Elemental -30,32
81 Beholder -31,16
82 Royal Griffin -31,29
83 Hell Hound -37,80
84 Dragon Fly -38,61
85 Griffin -38,76
86 Stone Golem -38,97
87 Serpent Fly -46,88
88 Elf -47,47
89 Orc Chieftan -50,17
90 Wraith -50,81
91 Harpy Hag -51,79
92 Lizard Warrior -55,76
93 Marksman -57,67
94 Wight -59,30
95 Orc -60,06
96 Battle Dwarf -62,98
97 Magog -64,16
98 Wolf Raider -65,45
99 Obsidian Gargoyle -65,91
100 Gog -69,36
101 Dwarf -72,41
102 Lizard -74,24
103 Zombie -76,57
104 Stone Gargoyle -77,41
105 Wolf Rider -82,00
106 Archer -82,50
107 Harpy -82,76
108 Walking Dead -87,08
109 Centaur Captain -87,52
110 Halberdier -91,51
111 Centaur -95,38
112 Sprite -96,61
113 Pikeman -97,56
114 Master Gremlin -99,84
115 Gnoll Marauder -100,02
116 Infernal Troglodyte -103,86
117 Skeleton Warrior -103,98
118 Gnoll -107,30
119 Skeleton -110,16
120 Hobgoblin -110,91
121 Troglodyte -114,31
122 Familiar -114,80
123 Goblin -116,52
124 Imp -119,84
125 Pixie -120,89
126 Gremlin -121,88
P.S I can post more tests and can explain more when will have more time.
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tyraxor
Adventuring Hero
Ruler of the burning Desert
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posted November 25, 2008 04:41 PM |
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Isn't this topic unnecessary? Even if the Archangel is the strongest creature, I never ever will choose Castle to play with! My opinion is that Castle (Or Haven) is boring. Most of the people have a favorite country and won't ask themselves wich ranking their creatures have on one of these lists
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Hell_Wizard
Famous Hero
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posted November 25, 2008 05:11 PM |
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Yeah. IMO, it's Tower.
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Hellburn
Famous Hero
The efreet
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posted November 26, 2008 03:42 PM |
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Edited by Hellburn at 13:08, 27 Nov 2008.
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I have done some similar tests too (Long ago it was...).
Rules:
1. Neutral morale, luck.
2. 0 attack, 0 defense heroes.
3. No starting bonus - artifacts, neutral terrain.
4. Hero specs don't affect cratures (ex. logistics).
5. No spell casting.
6. Number of fighting creatures = population * n.
7. Each of creature stack fights 8 battles on same lvl (all vs all) for 10 rounds (5 rounds for 1st creature attacking/moving and 5 rounds for the 2nd creature). Moving only when melee vs. shooting.
8. When creature wins a round it gains 1 point, if loses, lose 1 point.
10. Score from rounds won - Lost rounds = Final score.
11. To eliminate negative values all creatures gain as much points as negative score has the last creature (Hope you understand this, sorry for my english ;P).
Lvl 1
1. Halabardier - (75 - 5) + 70 = 140 pkt
2. Centaur Captain - (65 - 15) + 70 = 120 pkt
3. Sprite - (55 - 25) + 70 = 100 pkt '
4. Gnoll Marauder - (45 - 35) + 70 = 80 pkt
5. Infernal Troglodyte - (30 - 39) + 70 = 61 pkt ''
6. Skeleton Warrior - (31 - 49) + 70 = 52 pkt ''
7. Hobgoblin/Master Gremlin - (20 - 60) + 70 = 30 pkt
8. Familiar - (5 - 75) + 70 = 0 pkt '''
Lvl 2
1. Storm Elemental - (75 - 5) + 80 = 150 pkt. '
2. Battle Dwarf - (70 - 10) + 80 = 140 pkt
3. Obsidian Gargoyle - (65 - 15) + 80 = 130 pkt ''
4. Reptilion - (50 - 30) + 80 = 100 pkt
5. Wolf Knight/Harpy Hag/Marksman - (30 - 50) + 80 = 60 pkt '''
6. Magog - (10 - 70) + 80 = 20 pkt
7. Zombie - (-80) + 80 = 0 pkt. ''''
Lvl 3
1. Royal Griffin/Cerber - 150 pkt '
2. Dragon Fly - 90 pkt ''
3. Iron Golem/Evil Eye/Ice Elemental - 80 pkt '''
4. Grand Elf - 70 pkt
5. Wraith - 20 pkt
6. Orc Chieftain - 0 pkt
Lvl 4
1. Vampire Lord - 80 + 80 = 160 pkt '
2. Ogre shaman - (60 - 20) + 80 = 120 pkt
3. Crusader - (55 - 25) + 80 = 110 pkt ''
4. Archmagi - (50 - 30) + 80 = 100 pkt
5. Greater Bazsilisk - (45 - 35) + 80 = 90 pkt
6. Silver Pegassi - (35 - 45) + 80 = 70 pkt
7. Medusa Queen - (20 - 60) + 80 = 40 pkt
8. Horned Deamon - (15- 65) + 80 = 30 pkt
9. Energy Elemental - (-80) + 80 = 0 pkt
Lvl 5
1. Mighty Gorgons - 80 + 80 = 160 pkt
2. Drenoid Soldier - (70 - 10) + 80 = 140 pkt '
3. Minotaur King - (58 - 22) + 80 = 116 pkt ''
4. Thunderbird - (52 - 2 + 80 = 104 pkt ''
5. Pit Lord - (40 - 40) + 80 = 80 pkt
6. Archlich - (25- 55) + 80 = 50 pkt
7. Master Genie - (20 - 60) + 80 = 40 pkt
8. Zealot - (15 - 65) + 80 = 30 pkt ''''
9. Magma Elemental - (-80) + 80 = 0 pkt
Lvl 6
1. Naga Queen - 80 + 70 = 150 pkt
2. Dread Knight - 60 + 70 = 130 pkt '
3. Champion - (55 - 25) + 70 = 100 pkt ''
4. Magic Elemental - (45 - 35) + 70 = 80
5. War Unicorn - (40 - 40) + 70 = 70 pkt
6. Efreet Sultan - (39 - 41) + 70 = 68 pkt '''
7. Scorpicore (też nie lubię tego tłumaczenia...) - (16 - 64) + 70 = 22 pkt ''''
8. Wyvern Monarch - (6 - 74) + 70 = 2 pkt (^^) ''''
9. Cyclops Kings - (5 - 75) + 70 = 0 pkt
Lvl 7
1. Phoenix - 80 + 80 = 160 pkt '
2. Archangel - (65 - 15) + 80 = 130 pkt
3. Ancient Behemoth/Titan - (50 - 30) + 80 = 100 pkt ''
4. Archdevil/Black Dragon - (40 - 40) + 80 = 80 pkt
5. Gold Dragon - (25 - 55) + 80 = 50 pkt
6. Chaos Hydra - (10 - 70) + 80 = 20 pkt
7. Ghost Dragon - (-80) + 80 = 0 pkt
Conclusion:
Castle: 2x 1st, 1x 2nd, 2x 3rd, 1x 8th.
Rampart: 2x 2nd, 1x 4th, 2x 5th,1x 6th.
Tower: 1x 1st, 3x 3rd, 1x 4th, 2x 7th.
Inferno: 1x 1st, 1x 4th, 1x 5th, 2x 6th, 2x 8th.
Necropolis: 1x 1st, 1x 2nd, 1x 5th, 2x 6th, 2x 7th.
Dungeon: 2x 3rd, 1x 4th, 2x 5th, 2x 7th.
Stronghold: 1x 2nd, 1x 3rd, 1x 4th, 1x 5th, 1x 6th, 1x 7th, 1x 9th.
Fortess: 1x 1st, 1x 2nd, 2x 4th, 1x 5th, 1x 6th, 1x 8th.
Conflux: 2x 1st, 2x 3rd, 1x 4th, 2x 9th.
Original Topic
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Hell_Wizard
Famous Hero
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posted November 26, 2008 06:38 PM |
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Here is the best ranking:
First: Azure Dragon
(...)
Last: Peasant
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tyraxor
Adventuring Hero
Ruler of the burning Desert
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posted November 26, 2008 10:21 PM |
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a bit easy, but manageable. i like it
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Nikita
Famous Hero
Meepo is underrated
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posted November 26, 2008 10:47 PM |
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it doesnt matter what rank creature is or how much dmg it does,ex:halbardiers are stronger then sprites,but sprites have no retaliation and can wait,att,fly back.or Hydras which are considered not that great can hit multiple targets with no retaliations which can be 3x or more dmg done then by others creatures.
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Hellburn
Famous Hero
The efreet
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posted November 27, 2008 01:06 PM |
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Yes, yes, I know that. But that was strictly 'physicall' test
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Nikita
Famous Hero
Meepo is underrated
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posted November 28, 2008 01:15 AM |
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the test was great,thxs for doing it,i was just saying my opinio on the whole thing.
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peterpeter
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 29, 2008 02:09 AM |
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Quote:
Dont want to argue with you Camel
I said I think Devils are better than Angels imo. I dont want to proove anything to anyone, this is just my opinion. I find devils to be very usefull and their no retail special keeps them alive well if you use them with caution. There are battles where you can win with very few devils instead of many more other level 7 units. Also certain spells are custom made for Devils, like forcefield and frenzy. 160 hp is ok with me, especially when it comes to ressurection or sacrifice. I think red drags are also top contender for best level 7 mainly because of magic imunity.
I tried to fight with archangels against archdevils - you hardly see a difference.
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