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| Thread: Necropolis vs Fortress and Light Magic |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted August 21, 2009 02:17 PM |
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Quote:
jeez, I feel like im on trial here. Look, it is just my opinion. It has worked for me, that's all. For some reason it may not work for you, I dunno! Everybody has their own style, and this is mine, and it has always worked for me.
Chill out. I just wanted to point out some flaws, I'm not saying that you can't get away with your tack under certain circumstances (especially if your hero has more than five levels on his foe).
By the way, one should never underestimate the value of the Rune of Magic Control, as it can really turn the tide of a battle.
Fortress is powerful because runes can be used directly by creatures and runes do make up for their weaknesses.
Runes like Charge, Etheralness, Battle Rage, Resurrection and Magic Control are a real pain when facing the Fortress on a battle field.
Not to mention that a Runemage with Dark Magic can be a real nightmare for Inferno (and most factions, at least a Necro doesn't have to worry about Frenzy and Mass Confusion). I once won a hotseat game against a friend who had a huge Haven army (including 150 Champions)thanks to Runes and Dark Magic.
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13 Heroes
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Berny-Mac
Promising
Legendary Hero
Lord Vader
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posted August 21, 2009 02:22 PM |
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yeah, I think that runes should be purely hero abilities actually, and let it act as light magic would, except using resources instead of mana.
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shardik
Adventuring Hero
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posted August 22, 2009 02:47 PM |
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Edited by shardik at 14:47, 22 Aug 2009.
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Quote:
I'd say that to even the fight you could tell your brother that his Runemage can't have Light. No Dark, no Light. Then you can really see who wins.
Well, basically I agree with everything you said. But I'd like to clear up couple of a misunderstandings:
1) I played Fortress. He used Necro.
2) This is not entirely a discussion about town balance. It is primarily a debate about the importance of light and dark magic. He hates the fact that he is forced to pick dark magic when playing necro to stand a chance.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 22, 2009 02:53 PM |
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Then he should learn to engage you faster, summoning and destructive can be pretty good by midgame. Though the latter is risky. At any rate if you don't like dark why do you play a necromancer? 
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Berny-Mac
Promising
Legendary Hero
Lord Vader
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posted August 22, 2009 03:14 PM |
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he can try using light as necro, but it would be devilishly hard to get it, and he won't get many light spells at the necro mage guild.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 22, 2009 03:38 PM |
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Why? Do you by any chance believe that necro + light has any chances vs fortress + light + runes?
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Berny-Mac
Promising
Legendary Hero
Lord Vader
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posted August 22, 2009 03:41 PM |
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i dunno, just a thought. I've never actually tried it before, and it may get some pretty strange but cool results.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 22, 2009 03:59 PM |
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A clue would be that a fortress army is better in the long run. If you also consider that rune strength practically increases along with the army and is amplified by buffs you get the picture. And dwarves can of course steal buffs.
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Berny-Mac
Promising
Legendary Hero
Lord Vader
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posted August 22, 2009 04:00 PM |
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aha! but Necro has Bone Dragons! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
(Warning: Berny-Mac has been playing Homm 4 a lot recently)
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 22, 2009 04:04 PM |
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Loved those. Easy to build, crazy defense, fear - cast a vampirism and spread the terror  Nothing like that in H5..
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Berny-Mac
Promising
Legendary Hero
Lord Vader
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posted August 22, 2009 04:06 PM |
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I know, they made champions look like a silly joke!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted August 22, 2009 04:08 PM |
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I used to boost those through nobility  Some extra champions were nice to have.
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Berny-Mac
Promising
Legendary Hero
Lord Vader
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posted August 22, 2009 04:17 PM |
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yeah, but necro in Homm4 could easily get nobility. I actually think how cool it was to have an evil faction sort of allied with these seemingly good guys. Of course, in the end, no one was really good or bad, which was cool. Homm5 I think tried to do that, but miserably failed, ending up in a horrible storyline worth a single pellet of poo. Honestly, Homm4 would have been a great game, but it was just not put together that well. It certainly had the potential to become completely amazing, even better than Homm3, but the ideas weren't translated into a game properly, I think. I'm actually taking up Homm4 now and redoing the campaigns and I had forgotten just how much better the storyline texts were than Homm5's cartoonish cutscenes.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 22, 2009 05:08 PM |
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Haven't read through it all, but just want to chip in with a few objections. You can't talk about something like "Dwarves w. light" being overpowered when you force the restriction "no Dark Magic" onto the opponent.
Dwarves + Light Magic may be very powerful, but there is a deffinite counter which is Dark Magic. You may not be guaranteed a win with Dark Magic, but you'll be pretty much handing over yourself without.
That doesn't mean Dwarves + Light is overpowered, you can turn it the other way around and say: Necro with Dark is pretty tough to beat with Dwarves if you are not allowed to pick Light Magic (and/or Runes)!
But it's true that some factions rule early game and others late game, and Necro is deffinitely an early-game faction whereas Fortress is very much a late-game faction.
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rottenvenetic
Known Hero
Derusticated
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posted September 30, 2009 10:49 PM |
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It seems to me that after a certain point the Fortress army becomes just too tough in the defensive area. After that, while their troops grow in a linear fashion the army needed to defeat them grows exponentially.
If your early attack fails or it's not an option you absolutely need to grab foreign towns, and build up your dark energy.
If you do that, I believe that Necro can indeed have a great epic-late game (week 8+), but they need to take towns, since they are the only faction able to concentrate all those creatures into a single hero's army. Necromancy is little more than a preface to this power.
So, if you cannot use your early game advantage on his town and territory, make sure you use it on other towns, and that you outnumber his main force by a large enough amount that his quality advantage can be overcome. If you can grow that much faster than Fortress, you can beat their late game and Necro is actually the best bet.
Try to acquire Strongholds. Inferno is also quite passable (extra liches and, if like me you like them, zombies and generally not bad creature growth).
Academies, on the other hand, are rather bad because they have some units you can't use, even though you get extra liches, and Dungeon's units are expensive and few.
I believe that Necro is weakest around the time ordinary fast games appear to end (the second month) because their early advantage has faded out and they have not yet had the chance to develop their rather broken late-late game.
Still, even if the game drags into the fourth month somehow, do not count on the dwarves to go down easily, no matter how broken your numbers are. In addition, I don't have any proof that necro can even stop the dwarves from winning in the second month given a balanced map and equal player skill, and I don't know at which point Necro's towns advantage makes them superior to fortress (having any 7 towns against a Fortress player with 2 Fortresses and 5 unique other towns is certainly a done deal, but that will never happen).
So I'll stick with the Dwarves being kings of the late game, and the conventional wisdom that with necro it pays more to just rush them.
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soamazing
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 12, 2009 07:25 PM |
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Quote:
So basically you lose late game if you don't have light or dark magic?
Which factions do you consider as strong as fortress late game?
More or less
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HartZa
Known Hero
watchout graveyards!
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posted October 12, 2009 11:40 PM |
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1. Take a map with plenty of neutral towns.
2. Pick a light magic (if you plan for long game youŽll get all light spells)
3. Capture as many neutral town as possible
4. Convert every towns creatures to undead.
4. He surely suprises when the "final fight" comes and you have 3-4 times more troops .
Straight and clear eh?
Now go test it
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