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| Thread: On philosophy. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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antipaladin
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posted October 22, 2009 06:00 PM |
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On philosophy.
We have topics on politics,on religion,and on elodin,now i was thinking we can have a discussion or rather share each hes philosophy.
It's not place for jokes and giggles,but more of discussing meanings of sirouse philosophy. ill strat.
My phillosophy is simple. i Do not judge my frindes,nor when they couse someone else wrong,nor do i make it legit,i explain,and if i have to menipulate them often to the what i think is the right thing. imo Morallity drives me. I dont cry over spilled milk couse its useless and try my best to never regrat yet that soemtimes proves itself better said then done. I force myself to think outside of the box for original and cleaver ideas,and solutions and i want to think that ill be someone somebody becouse of this. Im driven by pleasures but i admit it. i also like to think each change is for the best. what about you guys?
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ohforfsake
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posted October 22, 2009 10:02 PM |
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If this is in the general context (your personal view on lots of different subjets (your thoughts)), then I think I could write very much, but as of right now, I'm not going out into any extremes, but I'll maybe edit the post as time goes.
I can start with, that I believe that every problem can be solved given the right amount of ressources (energy) invested and the proper technology, for making the solution possible, available.
Also, when I look at the world, I divide it into 3 categories:
Those that means something to me (i.e. people I'd offer my freedom for them to've an increased freedom)
Those who are living beings, unique existing entities (i.e. people I believe all should be free to do what they want, except limiting the freedom of others)
Finally, everything else, that's not an existing entity, or let's say have a consciousness, which for me doesn't matter.
Though I think I can order this post a bit better, I'll stop for now at laest. 
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antipaladin
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posted October 22, 2009 11:34 PM |
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thanks ohforsake. its intersting,but as i understood those who get into third class are of no value to you correct? based on what excally do you catagorise them?
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DagothGares
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posted October 23, 2009 12:22 AM |
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Throughout life, there are four basic stances a human can assume. Changing a stance is hard and needs to come through insight or is unchangeable:
I'm not okay, you're okay
I'm not okay, you're not okay
I'm okay, you're not okay
I'm okay, you're okay
Now, the first stance, I'm not okay, you're okay is the basic stance of every human being. It is the stance you assume when you are born. You yourself feel insignificant, you cannot take care of yourself, cannot feed yourself or cannot understand the world yourself. Everyone else does, though, so they're okay. They're wise and omnipotent giants, towering through your life as magnificent as they are. how this person grows out of this situation depends. This person also cannot get self-approval. this person can only feel (temporarily) good about themselves, through others. They need approval from others in order to feel good.
I'm not okay, you're not okay is the stance that depressed people assume after the initial stance. They feel that everyone around them is scum. He feels misunderstood and feels worthless himself. this person has fallen to despair, basically. There is a way to get relief from this that these people use. They create exceptions. They categorise some people as okay, but these people aren't regular humans anymore. they're just a little better than (him and other people) and he would like to be stroked by them. (everyone who feels not okay by himself needs to be stroked by someone else once in a while you see or they'll get depressed). A person who doesn't create these exceptions will occasionally resort to suicide. rarely it happens that these person come into a fully-functional stance.
I'm okay, you're not okay is a criminal stance. this person has learned from a very young age that the outside world wants to hurt him and that only himself is someone he ca rely on. This person has someone learned to stroke himself (stop snickcering, I'm teaching you basic psychology) and feel good when he does his own thing. This person usually has little self-restraint, since his inner parent didn't learn this from his biological parents (who either left him alone most of the time or beat him). this is the most dangerous stance and is mostly treated in criminal psychology. It is a rather exceptional stance and only occurs in special situations (lik when he was beaten as a child for instance)
I'm okay, you're okay is a fully-developped grown-up stance with which the individual can become a functioning member of society. He doesn't need to be stroked by others. He feels perfectly fine by himself and is perfectly okay with his environment and eeryone around him. This person has reached psychological nirvana and is normally achieved by most.
Oh, I'm the "I'm not okay, you're not okay"-person 
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Adrius
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posted October 23, 2009 01:03 AM |
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Edited by Adrius at 01:05, 23 Oct 2009.
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People find comfort in truths, it is human nature to seek explanations to everything, we fear what we do not understand. But a belief too strong easily turns into fanaticism, and suddenly you believe in an Absolute Truth, it might be god, it might be that god does not exist, it can be anything.
The arguments of others all sound ridiculous in comparison to your Absolute Truth, you have your arguments, and you can repeat them forever cuz you KNOW you're right.
And thus you begin to lack compassion because you cannot see beyond your truth and imagine the situation of others, and soon you might find yourself hurting others while protecting your absolute truth. Entire wars are created because of lack of understanding.
To escape this you must question. By questioning you develop mentally, your imagination grows, and you will find it easier to understand others, and you'll grow as a person. The sooner you realize that none of us really know anything the better.
Embrace everything, Question everything
Pretty much.
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TheDeath
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posted October 23, 2009 01:07 AM |
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@OhforfSake: there's no such thing as an isolated action. Everything is connected, so by using pure logic, one can say any action infringes upon the freedoms of others, including breathing (so do the others).
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Warmonger
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posted October 23, 2009 08:05 PM |
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^Taking absolutely no action may influence others as well, all you can do about it is to have good intent.
If there is finally a philosophical thread, I can't let it die 
Also, please notice subtle difference between philosophy, ethics, morality and value system. Philosophy is a science, ethics is its branch. Morality is subjective capability of taking right choices while value system determines what has priority over others.
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TheDeath
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posted October 23, 2009 08:07 PM |
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Quote:
^Taking absolutely no action may influence other as well
Inactions cannot carry guilt.
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Warmonger
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posted October 23, 2009 08:10 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
^Taking absolutely no action may influence other as well
Inactions cannot carry guilt.
The sin of negligence for example? How about being charged for not helping the victim of car crash?
Personally I think we were not born to do nothing, life is only one and we should make good use of it.
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DagothGares
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posted October 23, 2009 08:18 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
^Taking absolutely no action may influence other as well
Inactions cannot carry guilt.
Sure they can, when the person who commits the inactionhas an obligation
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TheDeath
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posted October 23, 2009 08:21 PM |
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If you promised something then yeah you can be guilty of not doing it, but in any other ways, LAW INCLUDED, it is a form of forced action. Inaction can never be guilty unless you are forced to do certain things.
Of course if you crash that person in the first place (accident) then you do have an obligation to help him/her...
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ohforfsake
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posted October 23, 2009 10:51 PM |
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Quote:
those who get into third class are of no value to you correct?
Yes that's true
Quote:
based on what excally do you catagorise them?
I don't think they actually are a uniquely defined existing entity.
I believe, that since we can experience the world, we must exist at some degree, but as we're the one who experience, we can only know for us self. (You can only know for you, I can only know for me, etc.).
I do however believe, that it's very likely, that all humans exists, and probably many animals too.
What defines this existance, is also most likely something that is derived through the brain, whatever it is, it takes presence in our consciousness.
Therefore, everything with a consciousness, I believe exist and is in either group 1 or group 2.
Everything I do not believe have a consciousness, like a rock, or some water, will I put in group 3, and that means, I really don't care if someone kicks to a rock, or anything like that.
I'd however never place a human in group 3, and I believe most animals as well should not be in group 3, where the limit goes is however very hard to tell, as we do not know what exactly defines consciousness.
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TheDeath
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posted October 24, 2009 12:26 AM |
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If we don't know what causes consciousness how can you just put things in groups then? And of course, you said you can only experience for yourself, which means you can't know if a rock is conscious or not, or if an animal is or not, or if the next human you see is conscious or not.
I realize you try to put them in groups to justify some actions but really, it is a bit premature to even do that, and you even admitted that you can only experience yourself. 
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ohforfsake
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posted October 24, 2009 01:26 PM |
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Quote:
If we don't know what causes consciousness how can you just put things in groups then?
Through what I find likely.
I find it likely that consciousness is derived through the brain, so it needs the same functionality as the brain.
As for what I know, this functionality is not common in non-living objects, I find it likely enough, to place these objects in group 3.
Quote:
And of course, you said you can only experience for yourself, which means you can't know if a rock is conscious or not, or if an animal is or not, or if the next human you see is conscious or not.
That's completely true, I make what I believe to be justified assumptions, but of course I'd most more prefer a method that could tell for "certain".
Quote:
I realize you try to put them in groups to justify some actions but really, it is a bit premature to even do that, and you even admitted that you can only experience yourself.
But what would you do in stead?
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TheDeath
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posted October 24, 2009 03:08 PM |
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Quote:
But what would you do in stead?
If I were to use your logic (that you can only experience for yourself) then I wouldn't try to 'justify' my actions at all
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ohforfsake
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posted October 24, 2009 04:39 PM |
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Quote:
@OhforfSake: there's no such thing as an isolated action. Everything is connected, so by using pure logic, one can say any action infringes upon the freedoms of others, including breathing (so do the others).
If you'd specify what you mean in general (what it's related to, and what it means exactly) and also come with some examples, it'd be easier for me to answer, otherwise I'd just be guessing.
Because by the laws of physics every action is somewhat connected, but the termal energy of said connection (i.e. the energy that ends up influencing the given individual) is so low that I'd never consider it a problem with the proper technology.
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TheDeath
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posted October 24, 2009 04:54 PM |
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Quote:
Because by the laws of physics every action is somewhat connected, but the termal energy of said connection (i.e. the energy that ends up influencing the given individual) is so low that I'd never consider it a problem with the proper technology.
I said that no action is isolated, not that you consider it a problem or not
Proper technology, yeah that's right. I mean we even have nukes to satisfy the bomb dudes. (point being, not everyone has the same goal)
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Shyranis
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posted October 24, 2009 11:38 PM |
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Edited by Shyranis at 02:54, 25 Oct 2009.
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A philosophy, the occupation of thinking about things an how they work or fit together while possibly waxing poetic. Philosophy is compatible with everything. There are those that follow philosophies of love, hate, fear, unity, division, and many other general subjects. Then there are those that blend them (most political parties across the world blend at least 4 of those ideas).
I'd talk about this more, but have little time.
edit:
Excerpt from Larry Gonnick's Cartoon History of the Universe
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ohforfsake
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posted October 26, 2009 12:38 PM |
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Quote:
I said that no action is isolated, not that you consider it a problem or not
That's true, but if I do not find it a problem with the idea presented, then I believe you should explain why it's relevant to what I write, as I don't get the point.
(If I got the point, I'd either understand the problem, or I believe you'd be countering my arguments).
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Moonlith
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posted November 02, 2009 02:22 PM |
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Quote:
I'm okay, you're not okay is a criminal stance. this person has learned from a very young age that the outside world wants to hurt him and that only himself is someone he ca rely on. This person has someone learned to stroke himself (stop snickcering, I'm teaching you basic psychology) and feel good when he does his own thing. This person usually has little self-restraint, since his inner parent didn't learn this from his biological parents (who either left him alone most of the time or beat him). this is the most dangerous stance and is mostly treated in criminal psychology. It is a rather exceptional stance and only occurs in special situations (lik when he was beaten as a child for instance)
Are you implying I'm a criminal and was beaten as a child just because I think humanity is scum and I'm better than most?
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