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| Thread: Brain Mapping |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Mytical
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posted February 03, 2010 11:20 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 11:28, 03 Feb 2010.
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Brain Mapping
Ok I am supposed to write a paper on this subject, and I want to know what people KNOW about it, and what people think about it. Is it viable? Is it accurate? What are the ramifications? How do you PERSONALLY feel about it?
Sorry for those who may not know. Brain Mapping is supposedly the next 'ultimate truth detector' being used in some Airports to detect possible terrorist..to my knowledge it is still in the 'experimental' phase.
In theory it states that when a person such as a terrorist looks at a photo of say an explosion different areas of their brain 'activate' then what a non-terrorist would. Just as an image of a child might illicit different responses from a Pedophile then somebody who is not.
It uses fMRI Functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging to monitor the change of blood flow related to neural activity.
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Elvin
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posted February 03, 2010 11:29 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 11:31, 03 Feb 2010.
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Hey that actually sounds interesting, if you find any good bits be sure to post them.
Just don't try to make a map of an average vw spammer's brain. The results may scare whoever reads it 
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Mytical
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posted February 03, 2010 11:31 AM |
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Edited by Mytical at 11:36, 03 Feb 2010.
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Ah but I need both sides input for the paper. So in this instance, I want the facts as well as the opinions. I am REALLY hoping the likes of Corribus and such weigh in, however, as they will probably understand this better then I.
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JoonasTo
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posted February 03, 2010 11:39 AM |
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Works in theory but it will give a lot of wrong input too.
Would need quite specific information on different people's brains.
And here we come to the problem of judging innocent people.
They haven't done anything illegal. Might not be carrying anything now. Might be planning(in their heads) to blow up themselves on the flight back. That means you're cathcing innocent people. Not really the most ethical solution.
That was a fast one with lot of holes and even more mistakes. But there it is anyways.
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JollyJoker
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posted February 03, 2010 11:41 AM |
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What I know about it, isn't much, but I do know that the difficulties in recent research are the result of the realization that some brain functions are the result of more than one part of the brain acting together which makes the actual mapping quite a bit more complex.
Using this as the next step of lie-detection is pretty problematic. You'd need signals that would always stimulate different areas with perpetrators than with POTENTIAL perpetrators.
I mean, a person MIGHT find explosions as such interesting as a phenomenon, while a terrorist might find them horrible, but necessary. Moreover, just because you may find the idea to kill a certain person attractive at a specific day, being pissed like hell and imagining the person being roasted alive on small flame, chances are you come over it, laugh it off and forget it.
It might HELP, if their was suspicion already, it might one day SUPPORT finding the truth, but that needs a lor of research, imo.
Quote:
Ah but I need both sides input for the paper. So in this instance, I want the facts as well as the opinions. I am REALLY hoping the likes of Corribus and such weigh in, however, as they will probably understand this better then I.
Hey, what became of good old-fashioned research? 
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Mytical
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posted February 03, 2010 11:48 AM |
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I am doing that Jolly. However, the paper also calls for more then that. It asks for people's (not just my own) opinon on the matter. We are supposed to stop people and talk to them face to face on it, but I feel that this discussion will serve better.
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DagothGares
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posted February 03, 2010 01:19 PM |
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I wouldn't trust it.
To me it sounds like that ancient study where people tried to divine eachother's personalities by measuring the skull and studying the various dimensions of the brains.
Add to that that no brain is identical (even the structure can differ.) and we only have a very rudimentary sense of its workings and we have something rather fallacious. To me, it sounds rather peculiar.
And, while such a thing may be very interesting when you're creating a psych profile, I doubt it would have much use as airport security measures. For instance, an uncaring person could perhaps be screened as a potential terrorist and, though technically he may be a jerk (or he may as well not be, who knows?) that wouldn't be very just, now would it? By the way, it sounds distasteful. How would it work? Are you going to flash cards of mutilation and fiery death to gauge some reactions from the brains? Well, I won't be taking that airline no more.
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Elvin
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posted February 03, 2010 01:24 PM |
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I would similarly distrust the findings. While the majority may have similar tendencies who can really tell how the individual's brain works? And even if he reacted suspiciously towards a certain image how would you know if he is guilty or if his subconscious is playing games with him?
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Fauch
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posted February 03, 2010 08:28 PM |
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terrorists will always find ways to bypass security anyway
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ihor
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posted February 03, 2010 08:35 PM |
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I would also not trusted these tests. I don't know anything about this theory but different areas of brain during reviewing an explosion picture could activate by different reasons. What if object's father/mother/sister.. died in an explosion. I don't believe such a system will give good results, maybe in future.
In any way it would be very difficult to implement such things IMO.
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TheDeath
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posted February 03, 2010 08:40 PM |
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I see it more as statistics. If it is statistically shown that terrorists are more likely to have a response in certain brain areas when seeing certain images... then they can use that to enhance the "suspicion" of a given person. Not proof, but simply suspicion.
The alternative is to be completely blind to the whole situation: i.e suspect everyone equally. That's not very successful. The key is to tone down the list of possible suspects based on statistics.
Though if this scanning requires some things like what Dagoth said or invasion of privacy, that's a whole different matter.
Here is one example why statistics are different than a proof, and should be used just for probabilities. Suppose that 90% of all terrorists wear yellow clothes. Now, you could use this to suspect yellow-wearing citizens more than others. It doesn't say necessarily that yellow has anything to do with terrorism, it's simply not "being blind" to the situation.
If the majority of terrorists for example are muslims, then you suspect those more. Doesn't mean it's proof, it's simply not being "blind" to narrow down your list. Sure you may evade other non-muslim terrorists, but if statistically you can reduce the number of bombings or whatever, then it's a better way.
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ihor
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posted February 03, 2010 08:55 PM |
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Edited by ihor at 20:56, 03 Feb 2010.
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Spending so much money(I think so) for suspicion? And what then? You found a person who will probably make an explosion somewhere in future, and what?
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TheDeath
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posted February 03, 2010 09:02 PM |
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Like all suspects, it means you "keep an eye" on him more than others.
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Fauch
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posted February 03, 2010 09:06 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 21:08, 03 Feb 2010.
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and then, the terrorists will notice authorities are looking for people wearing yellow clothes, so they'll start wearing blue clothes instead.
they could even find ways to train their brain, so that they can bypass that brain mapping thing.
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TheDeath
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posted February 03, 2010 09:19 PM |
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No one said statistics aren't going to adapt 
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bort
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posted February 03, 2010 09:27 PM |
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You're just as likely to catch a terrorist with phrenology as you are with fMRI.
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Azagal
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posted February 03, 2010 10:00 PM |
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Quote:
Add to that that no brain is identical (even the structure can differ.) and we only have a very rudimentary sense of its workings and we have something rather fallacious.
SHAME ON YOU! You say you watch house?! Seriously though brains can be as individual as they want to but that doesn't mean the function differently, not biologicaly. Take your Limbic system for example, no matter what kind of freak you are this is where you brain processes emotion, behaviour, long term memory and other things. That doesn't change from human to human. Every brain works the same way. But the interpretation of what you see is another story that's where the human factor comes into play, but not where the biology is concerned.
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If the majority of terrorists for example are muslims, then you suspect those more. Doesn't mean it's proof, it's simply not being "blind" to narrow down your list.
Right Death it's called "Racial Profiling" and it's amongst the most stupid and ignorant things a educated person can do. A muslim isn't any more likely to be a terrorist than a budhist monk, a christian, a atheist, Dagoth, a communist and what-not. The problem with your logic is that humans aren't points in a statistic that draw some bigger curve for you. They're actual humans. There is no room for acting on hunches and suspicions.
And it'll be quite easy to circumvent this new mechanism. As Mytical said this test uses a very strong magnet to monitor your brain. The moment you have metal in your skull you won't be able to take the test since the consequences range from nauseia to death and obviously you can't forbid people with headsurgery or similar stuff to fly.
Apart from all the already mentioned reasons I can not believe stuff like this is even considered. It's an insult to morales and ethics... you can't just monitor peoples brains and put them in categories for their thoughts. It's perversion. What's next? People who have "dirty thoughts" will be banned from office life since they're viable for potential sexual harrasment? Give me a break you can't look into a persons head, especially not when you have no way to be certain in the meaning of what you find. The arrogance is disgusting...
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Binabik
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posted February 03, 2010 10:07 PM |
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It sounds like the ultimate invasion of privacy. If they don't have a warrant or don't have probably cause, then they can't do it. And if they do have either of those, then they don't need the technology, they can simply search the person or even arrest them.
People should not only fight against the use of this sort of thing, they should fight against the technology itself. The potential ramifications of such technology and the potential ability to see our very thoughts, even if crudely, is an intrusion that is totally unacceptable.
So sorry, you had a gay thought, you will be arrested. So sorry, you had thoughts against the emperor, you will be arrested. So sorry, you didn't recycle that plastic bottle cap last week, you will be arrested.
Sound ridiculous and extreme? Are you sure? If such technologies were available in the past I'm sure you can think of all kinds of similar ways it could, and likely would, have been used. Have we humans really progressed so far that history will never repeat itself?
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted February 03, 2010 10:07 PM |
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Ummm, I know tihs is completely off-topic.
But a bask, irish or muslim is more probably a terrorist than a norwegian.
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Fauch
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posted February 04, 2010 01:25 AM |
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Quote:
A muslim isn't any more likely to be a terrorist than a budhist monk, a christian, a atheist, Dagoth, a communist and what-not.
Dagoth is a terrorist!! 
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