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| Thread: Game Development and Fan Nostalgia: What makes a good sequel? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted August 21, 2010 04:12 PM |
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Edited by TDL at 16:15, 21 Aug 2010.
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Quote:
It's not about "for the sake of being different", the only thing where Heroes could be guilty of that is the creatures, because people expect new stuff so the developers HAVE to come up with new creatures, like they are doing it with Necropolis now, for the sake of bringing something new to the undead instead of repeating the usual line up.
And as for now I can tell this is a really good thing. Not straying far from the path of the undead like heroes 4 did but still bringing innovation to Necropolis is a commendable deed. Even more so, I tend to like the Sphinx (or Manticore, whatever that was) and the Spider-woman-medusa-whatever. Unique, but fitting to the fluorescent-green/gray Necropolis of Ashan.
This is one more reason why I liked H5 tote more than the original, even though I heard many complaints about balance, etc. It brought about LOTS of innovation which is what I as a fan expect to see in the game. Lots of choices (2 upgrades per critter, etc.) brought about lots of changes in strategy (even though there were exquisite cases where you would pick one over the other any day of the week), as did the revamp of Skill Tree and Stronghold's Rage.
This is NOT a sequel to a role-playing game or a sequel to a real-time strategy game. This is Heroes VI. It falls into its own heroic genre, despite the various similarities between HOMM and other games. With few and far between changes abound, the only HOMM players that will be satisfied will be those who are playing online multiplayer and conservative players. Me, as an ultimate role-play fanatic, I will embark on my own single-player journey (or a joint adventure with my hotseat colleague) and enjoy it regardless. If you say I am in the minority, you are wrong: the majority of people playing multiplayer are in the fora, whilst a BIG group of casual single-player HOMM fans do not even go to fora -- they just enjoy the game when they can, single- or multi-player. Giving them a SEQUEL and not a revamped new game would be like having them play the same game all over again. Instead, there is enough change to satisfy their growing needs. Too little? Now there is a problem, you cant force the game devs to redesign the game at moment's glance. Too much change? Chew on it and reconsider, you can make do with it (otherwise, you can go back to earlier HOMM versions).
Just like the quote from Blind Guardian's new album's song:
"There's no end, wheel of time, it keeps on spinning..."
Life goes on and things change. You either adapt or stay in the past.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 21, 2010 04:21 PM |
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As a casual player who has played all HoMM titles and never even ventured into the multiplayer zone, I can say that you are generalizing things too much. I for one would not like too much change. Sure some things that bring innovation and new strategic possibilities, such as alternative upgrades or skill tree or initiative system is great, but for me there's still such a thing as too much change and while I would still check the game out there's a high possibility that I would not like it as much as the previous installments.
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CrimsonVenom
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 21, 2010 04:45 PM |
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Quote:
As a casual player who has played all HoMM titles and never even ventured into the multiplayer zone, I can say that you are generalizing things too much. I for one would not like too much change.
I think he makes precisely the same point as I. As such, my guess is he'd agree that the step which would turn the game from innovating to "is this actually Heroes?" shouldn't be taken. He just didn't bring that up, because, just as I did, he thought that much was obvious.
Is it me, or is this topic going in circles already?
By the way, alcibiades, you misspelled development in the title.
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Geny
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted August 21, 2010 05:35 PM |
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Edited by Geny at 17:35, 21 Aug 2010.
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Quote:
Giving them a SEQUEL and not a revamped new game would be like having them play the same game all over again.
This is the main thing I was addressing. If I misread TDL's intention I apologize.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted August 21, 2010 05:42 PM |
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Thanx for pointing out the typo. And yeah, maybe we're talking slightly in circles, either way this is not so much something that can reach a final agreement as something I would like to see people's oppinion on.
@TDL:
Quote:
Me, as an ultimate role-play fanatic, I will embark on my own single-player journey (or a joint adventure with my hotseat colleague) and enjoy it regardless. If you say I am in the minority, you are wrong: the majority of people playing multiplayer are in the fora, whilst a BIG group of casual single-player HOMM fans do not even go to fora -- they just enjoy the game when they can, single- or multi-player. Giving them a SEQUEL and not a revamped new game would be like having them play the same game all over again. Instead, there is enough change to satisfy their growing needs.
With all due respect, one can claim that expecting Heroes to fulfill your roleplaying needs - or critisizing it for not changing enough to due that - shouldn't be top priority, as Heroes is a strategy game rather than a roleplaying game. I myself loved some of the huge, epic-styled maps of Heroes 3 (and was dissapointed that Heroes 5 didn't favor that kind of playing), but being a strategy game, I think that is the element that should have top priority - even if continuity in that part means the roleplaying aspects of the game will be recuring.
Edit > But of course it does go very well to prove the problem that comes of us all having very different uses of the game - multiplayer duel, multiplayer matchup, singleplayer tactical, singleplayer epic, campaign focus, etc.
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What will happen now?
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted August 21, 2010 06:18 PM |
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Edited by TDL at 18:19, 21 Aug 2010.
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Hmmm... A few cents:
@ Geny and Crimson.
Crimson was right to the point, yes.
By SEQUEL and revamp, I should have used a comparison at first  . Take Mass Effect series - a RP game and unrelated but there is just very little change between the first and second part. Ofc the second perfected the series, but the change between the two is relative. Hence, it is rightfully called a sequel. However, in terms of heroes of might and magic, having very little change between two consecutive parts is like making the new part of heroes an overhaul mod or expansion and I do not want that. I like that each part gives different aspects of the game series to explore; which is why I liked all Homm parts almost equally, while disliking some sets of features of each.
However, a revamp requires you to improve the game in a lot of areas to let it be considered a new part. Of course too much change is dangerous! But if you manage to fulfill your goals, then the change that was brought about will prove to be worthy.
@ Alci
Another case of misunderstanding and misconception. I did not mean Heroes has to change into a RP because I want it. I do not actually want it to become a RP. But if it does improve in the area it was promised to (role-playing game-like hero progression), I will be 80% glad with whatever change is abound.
Strategy is always the number 1 element of any heroes game. But role-playing features can only improve the strategic build if applied correctly. Many may disagree, because ZOMG we like heroes how it was 10 years ago!!!111!one!!! But I, like I am sure many fans, dont like the game to be virtually stagnant. It has to change! It has to evolve! Classics are classics; let them rust in the past, time for something new to come. If this is what the devs decide to add, we have to accept it and try to help them improve in the area and NOOOT make them scrap all the work they'd done.
Addit:
Also, another funny thing I noticed. Worms franchise, another popular hotseat TBS game which works completely differently from HOMM, suffered from too many changes (the major of which was the 3D overhaul which destroyed the game). In the end, Team 17 decided to publish a reverted version of the old 2D styled worms (Worms:reloaded, coming out in a week). It features much of the old stuff, but it also adds something new that will improve the game and not cause a major fuss. Then again, however, if you take a look at the execution of the revamp, it is worthily called "RELOADED" and not "WORMS 4" I may be contradicting myself with this short paragraph, but if summed up correctly, it should say: too much change in TBS wreaks havoc, too little change does not make the game "stand out" like a new X-th part; HOMM needs change.
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thundertitan
Tavern Dweller
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posted August 24, 2010 09:11 AM |
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Last time the game changed (h4) everyone hated it... now you want it... bah, humbug.
But sequels are better off just adding new stuff, and giving some new twists to old stuff, not replacing stuff outright as if you're making a whole different game. That's what spin-offs are for...
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