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| Thread: A complete Skill Proposal |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 31, 2010 02:48 PM |
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Edited by Jiriki9 at 15:04, 12 Dec 2010.
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A complete Skill Proposal
Hey Guys
Here is a complete skill wish/proposal
For the mechanics, it's a mix between H5 & H4. Generally you have the H5 system with skills & Perks, inter-skill correspondences & maybe racials (though those I won't really mention here). BUT you have not 3, but 5 skill levels & can therefore choose not 3, but 5 total perks for each skill. Also, there will be some "new" skills, but I mentioned at elast soem of them before (like battle lore) and most are ripped from somewhere else in the HoMM history^^ (like Nobility).
The 5 skill levels are:
Basic, Advanced, Expert, Master, Legend
Additional to having fulfilled the conditions, most skill levels also have a level requirement, which can differ for the skill.
You can have 7 skills total (+racial). From these skills, you can reach master level in up to 2 and Legend level in up to 1 skills. The other 4 skills will remain in expert level at most.
Perks also have "levels" soemtimes, which still take another perks place. So from "Diplomacy" you could go on to "Advanced Diplomacy" and "Expert Diplomacy", getting great in that aspect, but sacrificing the chance to improve in others.
when leveling up, you can now choose from a certain choice range, usually: One basic Skill, one advanced skill, onebasic perk & one advanced perk, if possible.
You also have now the chance to DISMISS THE CHOICE if you don't want to take any of those skills. The hero then looses so much experience points he si exactly 1 before the level up he managed again (and also the stat bonus than doesn't apply) and you get a chance for difference with the new lvl up.
Both Skills & Perks are sometimes excludive. This means if your hero has one skill, another is forbidden for him. Examples are "Anti Magic" (you may not learn ANY magical skill then), Governing&Enlightenment or the oppositive magical skills (without the preventing perks).
Heroes, in this idea, are much like in H5, but, like in alcis idea, stand on the battlefield nevertheless, can move & have a range (for btoh ranged atttacks as movement range. They can, however, not be attacked, nor block your creatures (when they would block a space where an enemy wants to walk, they step aside as far as necessary, prefering the closest space).
The skills are for this thread ordered in 5 groups:
-Commandment means the most traditional skills of heroes enhancing the stats of their troops. Also, logistics & such fall under this
-Rule-Skills are AM skills which mostly have effect on towns & AM-buildings, some on ressources
-Battle Skills are those skills providing your hero with Might-Options of Fighting
-Magic Skills are quite obviously all those skills in which the hero masters in practicing magic.
-Adventure Skills are all which don't fit in the other categories, from the old skills, f.e. enlightenment is here.
Commandment:
Leadership:
Leadership gives your troops a moral boost of +1/+2/+3/+4/+5.
-Valor: Inspired by your hero's valor, your troops can never have negative moral. (=ability Bravery) Excludes "Cruel Leader"
-Heroic Valor: Inspired by your hero's valor, your troops have an additional chance of 50% of resisting any fear-based effects. Needs Valor.
-Advanced Heroic Valor: Inspired by your hero's valor, your troops are immune to any fear-based effects. Needs Heroic Valor.
-Encourage: Gives the Leader the ability to encourage his troops for a short while, making their turns come faster. Has three levels, determining the duration and effect of the encouragement.
-Cruel Leader: Negates the moral bonus of leadership and turns it into a moral malus for your enemies.. Excludes Valor and Kind Leader. Replaces Heroic Valor by the "Fearfull Leader" perk, with same effect but no prerequesites except CL. FL advances to "Terrifying Leader" which is equivalent to AHV.
-Blood Sports: Needs "Cruel Leader". Increases your troops' moral by 1/perk level, but decreases your troops' health by 10/5/0%. Has 3 Levels.
-Severe Punishments: Needs Cruel leader. On day 7 of each week, your hero kills a small percentage of your troops as punishment. All your troops gain a bonus on their attack & defense.
-Kind Leader: Your units love their leader and get a bonus on starting initiative.
-Comradship: Needs Kind Leader. When fighting next to your hero in melee, all your troops have a 50/75/100% chance to deliver an additional bow. Has 3 levels.
-Empathy: Needs Kind Leader. Similar to H5 perk. Has 3 level with increasing %chances.
-Extraordinary Leader: Needs Master Leadership. Gives your troops a chance of positive moral to trigger two times in a row.
Offence:
Offence increases your troops' melee attack by 1/2/3/4/5 * Tier.
-Offensive Tactics: Increases the radius in which you can place your troop by 1 line/perk level when you have attacked. 3 levels.
-Frenzy: Increases the attack of your Creatures by 10/20/30% while lowering the defense by 15/20/25%. Has 3 Levels.
-Assault: Gives your units a chance of 15/30/50% for an additional melee strike when attacking. Bonus is cumultative with unit bonuses. Units with double strike receive an attack bonus for both strikes. Has 3 Levels.
-Combined Attack: The hero can declare two of his unit stacks to do combined attacks this battle, meaning when one of the units attacks an enemy in melee, and the other is in range, it will attack that enemy, too. EACH attack uses up retaliations as usual. Needs Advanced Offensive Tactics.
-Preparation: When your units defend, they gain no defense. When your units wait or defend, they get an attack bonus, which is a bit higher for "defending". The bonus lasts 3 turns and is cumultative. Needs Offensive Tactics.
-Flanking: Your units receive a damage bonus when attacking an enemy unit from a side. Needs Offensive Tactics & Rush.
-Break Defense: Your units ignore 25% of the enemy defense when they attack them in melee. Needs Frenzy.
-Blood Lust: When your troops kill one or more enemy creature(s) of their own tier or higher in Melee, they recieve a melee damage bonus for 3 turns (10%, cumultative). Needs Frenzy.
-Rage Strike: Activated Unit Ability. your units learn the Rage Strike, which takes up two turns instead of one, and halves their defense for that time, but hits every unit around. Needs Advanced Frenzy.
-Press Forward: When attacking, your units have a chance to push the enemy away, making them unable to retaliate and changing their position. Needs Assault.
-Haste to Battle: When attacking in melee, your creatures speed is, for the purpose of that attack, increased by 1/Perk Level. Has 3 Levels. Needs Basic/Advanced/Expert Rush.
-Last Assault: When one of your units is delivered a final melee strike (killing the stack completely), they do a final retaliation afterwards, with the stack size being considered as big as before the final blow. Needs Expert Assault and Expert Counterstrike. Can be chosen as Offense OR as Defense perk!!!
-No Mercy: Gives your troops a damage boost when they attack a stack which is considerably weaker than them. Decreases both your troops & your enemy's moral by 1.
Defence:
Defence increases your troops' defense by 1/2/3/4/5 * Tier.
-Defensive Tactics: Increases the radius in which you can place your troop by 1 line/perk level when you are attacked. 3 levels.
-Counterstrike: Your units' retaliations deal +15/50/75% damage. 3 levels.
-Defensive Stance: Waiting gives 50/100/200% of the defense bonsu normally applied through defense. Defending gives 150/200/300% of that bonus. 3 Levels.
-Defense Line: Your units gain a bonus on defense for every friendly unti next to them (but not directly in front of them or directly behind them). Bonus is cumultative! Needs Defensive Tactics.
-Strike Back: Your units gain 1 additional retaliation in battle. Needs Counterstrike.
-Preparation: Like H5. needs Expert Counterstrike
-Hold Position: The enemy is unable to move your units from their position in battle, disregarding by what manners he tries (spell, ability, perk, artifact or whatever...) This only applies to effects directly counting on a unit of yours! Needs Defensive Stance.
-Last Assault: When one of your units is delivered a final melee strike (killing the stack completely), they do a final retaliation afterwards, with the stack size being considered as big as before the final blow. Needs Expert Assault and Expert Counterstrike. Can be chosen as Offense OR as Defense perk!!!
Archery:
Ranged attack of your troops is increased by 1/2/3/4/5 * Tier.
-Readiness: Allows your troops 1/2/3 Ranged Retaliations. Has 3 levels.
-Aiming: Reduces the Range Penalty. Has 3 Levels.
-?: Reduces the Melee Penalty. Has 3 Levels.
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Rush:
Rush increases your troops' initiative by 1/2/3/4/5 and gives them a bonus of 10/20/30/40/50% on starting initiative.
Battle Lore:
The hero knows how to fight certain TYPES of creatures. Hero may choose 1/2/3/4/5 types of creatures to be strong against. Against those, he and his troops will become a damage bonus of 10/20/30/40/50 percent.
Types of creatures are: Demonic, Humanoid, Beast, Mechanical, Undead, Elemental, Half-Blood.
Diplomacy:
The hero has a hand for diplomatic actions, thus allowing him to have 3/4/5/6/7 different factions in his army without morale penaltys.
-Negotiate: Increases the chance that creatures will leave the enemy party before battle, to join with the hero's troops. Has 3 Levels.
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War Machines:
Gives you control over Catapult & Ballista. Their effect is a bit strengthened, the higher your skill the more. Also increases the amount of ammo carriable by your ammo cart & the effect of rams.
-Catapult: Further increases the damage and the precision of your catapult. on level 2, catapult gets an additional shot. On level 3, the catapult can attack units, too (with decreased precision, though). Has 3 levels
-Ballista: Your ballista gains +1/2/3 shots. Each shot does less damage than that before. Has 3 levels.
-Rain of Stone: Your catapult's hits gain an area effect, so they deal damage not only to the wall segment or creature you targeted, but also on anyone on the surrounding fields (50% damage for the area). Needs Catapult.
-Piercing Ballista: Hits of your Ballista work the same way as breath attacks - hitting also enemies behind the target, but dealing only 50% damage to those. Needs Ballista.
Healing:
Gives you control over the Healing tent & strengthens it. Might Hero can learn Might-Heal abilities in the "Houses of Healing" or "Hospital" town/AM buildings. (Note: might heal abilities are weaker than spells and need money (resembling the hero needs to buy new healing herbs^^))
Siege Defense:
Gives you control over the city towers & other defensive devices like boiling oil, portcullis etc. & strengthens the defense of your city.
Rule:
Nobility:
Nobility increases the weekly growth of your creatures up to level 2/4/5/6/7 by a small amount per level, the amount also based on the tier.
-Estates: The hero grants you a fixed income of 250/500/1000 per day. Has 3 Levels.
-Fame: At the beginning of every week, a small number of Lvl one Creatures of the hero's faction join the hero for free. Has 3 Levels.
-Heritage: The hero immediately gains a medium artifact when choosing this perk. Needs Advanced Estates.
-Personal Banner: In battle, the hero carries his or her personal banner, increasing the morale of the surrounding troops, depending on the hero's Fame level. Needs Fame.
Stewardship:
Increases the income of any town the hero is in at the moment of income calculation by 20/35/50/75/100%
-Architecture: Decreases the Gold cost of your buildings by 20/35/50% Has 3 levels.
-Barter: Betters your rate of ressource trading when the hero is present by 1/2/3 (as if you had that more markets). Has 3 Levels.
Training:
Decreases the gold cost for creatures when the hero is present by 5/10/20/35/50%.
-Fight Trainer: Allows your hero to upgrade troops, of any faction, up to tier 2/4/6 to their upgraded form. Creatures of other factions and neutral units cost +100/75/50/25/0% upgrade costs, depending on your "training" skill level. Has 3 levels.
-Supreme Fight Trainer: Allows your hero to upgrade tier 7 troops of any faction to their upgrded form with "fight trainer". Needs Master Training and Expert Fight Trainer.
Governing:
The hero gains exp for every building built in a town he is in. He can only gain exp for one building/day. The exp gain is the converted cost (gold cost + ore/wood cost *50, Gem/sulfur/crystal/mercury cost *100) * 0.1/0.25/0.5/1/2. Excludes Enlightenment.
Battle:
Note: For the battle skill it's important that heroes can choose the weapon/s they want to fight with in battle (in the hero screen). Most skills here specify on weapon. A hero can choose melee&ranged weapons & shield, but has to remember he has only 2 hands, ranged weapon excluded (means: 2 melee weapons or 2handed weapon or weapon + shield) Some artifacts are weapons of a certain type.
Art of Battle:
Increases the damage dealt by hero melee attacks.
Stealth:
Allows hero to hide from the enemy during battle, with decreasing chance for the enemy to fidn the ehro with increasing skill level. A hidden hero is invisible for the enemy until he attacks an enemy unit, or casts a spell. With Stealth higher than Advanced, the hero can cast spells without being discover. With Legend Stealth, the hero even stays invisible after an attack.
-Backstab: When attackign from stealth, the hero deals +25/50/100% damage. Has 3 levels.
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Shooting:
The hero gains a ranged attack, which is strengthened with increasing level.
Protection:
With this skill the hero gets retaliation/s, working in the way that the hero strikes back when close to him one of his units is attacked in melee - disregarding wether this unit has also retaliated! With increasing skill level, the number of retaliations & the range in which the hero runs forth to strike (his retaliation is ALWAYS melee!): 1/2/3/4/unlimited "retaliations" working with creatures which are: next to the hero/within 25%/50%/75%/100% movement rate.
Magic:
For MAgic, there are 5 basic Spell schools. Each hero can learn all level 1 spells. For higher spells, you must have the respective level of the school. Taht means Basic for level 2, Advanced, for level 3, etc. All levels of teh school below this level aare strengthed a bit. Legend XYZ magic strengthens all spells of XYZ school.
However the skill itself gives access to the spells, they are basically cast with only 50% power and without secondary effects. To achieve Higher Powers, the Perk of the respective Inner Spell school must be studied. For example, Fire Magic is an inner spell school of elemental magic, or death magic is an inner magic of Dark Magic. 150% power in that case can often mean an additional effect instead of just powering up the spell effect
Elemental Magic: Allows to learn Elemental Spells.
-Air Magic: Air Spells are cast with 75/100/150%power, while Earth Spells are cast with 25% Power. Has 3 levels. Excludes Earth Magic.
-Earth Magic: Earth Spells are cast with 75/100/150%power, while Air Spells are cast with 25% Power. Has 3 levels. Excludes Air Magic.
-Fire Magic: Fire Spells are cast with 75/100/150%power, while Water Spells are cast with 25% Power. Has 3 levels. Excludes Water Magic.
-Water Magic: Water Spells are cast with 75/100/150%power, while Fire Spells are cast with 25% Power. Has 3 levels. Excludes Fire Magic.
Master of the Elements: Needs 2 Advanced Elemental Magic Perks (Fire, Air, Water or Earth) and Master Elemental Magic. Negates the elemental exclusions and increases all those Element Perks by 1.
Black Magic:
-Death Magic: Death Spells are cast with 75/100/150%power. Has 3 levels.
-Blood Magic: Blood Spells are cast with 75/100/150%power. Has 3 levels.
-Voodoo Magic: Voodoo Spells are cast with 75/100/150%power. Has 3 levels.
White Magic:
-Nature Magic: Nature Spells are cast with 75/100/150%power. Has 3 levels.
-Divine Magic: Divine Spells are cast with 75/100/150%power. Has 3 levels.
-Light Magic: Light Spells are cast with 75/100/150%power. Has 3 levels.
Arcane Magic:
-Metamagic: Metamagic Spells are cast with 75/100/150%power. Has 3 levels.
-Illusion: llusion Spells are cast with 75/100/150%power. Has 3 levels.
Metamagic Spells: Dispel, Magic Shield, Antimagic, Spell Ward,
Primal Magic:
-Nature Magic: Nature Spells are cast with 75/100/150%power. Has 3 levels.
Sorcery:
Like H5?
Mysticism:
Increases the daily regeneration of spell points by 1/2/3/4/5 for each 2 completed levels of the hero.
-Ritual of Pureness: Allows the hero to use one day to completely restore their mana.
Summoning:
Allows the permanent summon of creatures summoned through spells of level 1/2/3/4/5. The costs of the spells are increased and they also cost movement posts as time spent for incarnations, while the number of creatures is reduced.
Adventure:
Enlightenment:
Like H5^^
-Daily Training: gives The hero +1 in one chosen Stat every 5/4/3 levels. Has 3 levels. No reverse given points.
Anti Magic:
The hero learns the secret art of declining magic. He and units in an area (depending on his skill level) around him have a magical resistance of 15/30/50/75/100%. All the creatures effected by this skill are NOT CAPABLE OF CASTING. THe hero may not learn any magic skill and CAN NOT CAST SPELLS. This skill can not be chosen if the hero allready has a magic skill.
-Cleanse: All physical attacks by the hero have a chance of 20/35/50% to clear all spells from the target. Has 3 Levels.
-Magic Mirror: IF magical resistance triggers with your troops, there is a chance of 10/20/35% that the spell is thrown back to the enemy. Has 3 levels.
-Anti-Magical Aura: Inside the area of Anti Magic, enemy creatures have a chanc of 25/50/75% for their spells to fail totally. (so they can't even bless their own troops). If the hero stands close enough to the enemy hero, it of course also applies to them.
Logistics:
Increases the army movement on "solid" ground (meaning not in water).
-Land Lore: Available in several forms for all difficult terrains. Only one terrain can be chosen. Decreases the terrain movement malus by 50/75/100%. Has 3 levels.
-Safe retreat: When retreating, your hero keeps 10/20/30% of their troops. Has 3 Levels
Navigation:
Increases the army's movement on ship. Only available on maps with water.
Scouting:
Increases the hero's sight level by 1/2/3/4/5 and increases the chance to discover an ambush by 5/10/20/35/50%.
-Army Scouts(?): Increases the detail of information gathered about enemy forces when they are in sight range of the hero. Has 3 levels.
-Spys: Allows to send up to 2/3/5 spies to enemy towns or heroes for free, permanently oserving them, showing you their stats and troops in a spy screen. Has 3 levels.
Stealth Tactics:
The hero can hide his army on the Adventure Map (can be discovered by the enemy still), but a hidden army only has 15/25/35/50/75% of their movement points. When performing an attack (also against roaming creatures!) the army is revealed. The stealth ability can only be used once per day, but is kept over to the next day.
-Ambusher: Increases the effectiveness of ambushs. They are 10/20/35% less easy to discover and your units gain an additional initiative starting bonus of 10/20/30%. Has 3 Levels.
-Confuse the Enemy(?): There is a chance that the enemy gets false information about your army when looking at it. Once looked at it, the false information is kept continuous until you indeed HAVE changed something about your army. The chance gets higehr with increasing perk level, as does the grade of misinformation. You can define wether enemies see you stronger or weaker than you are. Has 3 Levels.
-Hidden Forces: 1/2/3 of your units are invisible at the begin of a combat and stay invisible until they move, attack, cast a spell, use an ability, are target for a single-target spell/ability or block the way of an enemy unit. You choose these troops in the placement phase. Has 3 Levels.
NOTE:
I assume it shall be far easier to reach max levl than in f.e. H5. That's important when considering the exp skills. In Campaigns, exp gain coudl be reduced (so you do not get to max lvl too early)
more perks follow soon
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Bludgeon
Known Hero
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posted August 31, 2010 04:31 PM |
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I think you should break up skills into adventure maps and battle ones, plus magical. Three broad categories instead of 5 you have now. That;s a functional division that's easy to understand and use.
Onto specifics:
- leadership, offence, defence, rush - all fine . Rush is a nice addition to the game I feel
- battle lore - don't like because it's too dependant on the enemy. If the choices were: tank, skirmisher, shooter, caster, flyer, then it could be interesting though
- war machines and healing - don't understand why you split those. Not really necessary
- siege defense - cool idea, but not sure if the skill isn't too limiting. Maybe it would be better as an ability?
- logistics - nothing to say here 
- navigation - H5 got it right, the effect is very dependant on the map so IMO it better fits as an ability
- nobility, stewardship, recruiter, architecture - seems like skills best suited for hero who doesn't fight. I'm mot sure how I feel about that type of skills.
- merchant - cool, but rename it to Barter (you have offense, not offender  ). It should affect exchange rates yes, but also give big discount with artifact merchants, etc.
- trainer - I don't know about it, seems weird.
- governing - no, just no. This promotes idle play and this is bad in any kind of game. Game should promote action, not turn skipping.
- Battle skills - many of those could be merged into a single skill that improves hero's attacks and/or initiative in combat.
- magic school skills look pretty standard. Not much to say here except it shows how you prefer your spells organized
- channeling and mysticism - I don't think there is need for 2 skills that essentially do the same (provide mana), just in a different manner.
- enlightenment - If I had my way, that skill would be gone from every Heroes game. Very uninspired.
- antimagic - good idea in general, but the %s are too good. I would make it instead weaken spells, both in power and in duration. Also, if you have skill that messes with casting, why not have skills that lower enemy luck or morale?
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted August 31, 2010 05:28 PM |
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Quote:
- battle lore - don't like because it's too dependant on the enemy. If the choices were: tank, skirmisher, shooter, caster, flyer, then it could be interesting though
It's basically avenger bettered and YES it is dependent on the enemy.
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- war machines and healing - don't understand why you split those. Not really necessary
Because it makes a mechanical sense, it's illogical to me that who can command war machine teams good, has the same effect on healers^^
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- siege defense - cool idea, but not sure if the skill isn't too limiting. Maybe it would be better as an ability?
Maybe but I decided to have it as skill here...I WATN many skills you see? 
Quote:
- navigation - H5 got it right, the effect is very dependant on the map so IMO it better fits as an ability
It won't appear in scenarios without much water and neither in campaigns except chosen ones.
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- nobility, stewardship, recruiter, architecture - seems like skills best suited for hero who doesn't fight. I'm mot sure how I feel about that type of skills.
they should give town-staying heroes a boost, since I don't like my town be defended only by level ones. ...it seems a great addition to the heroes for me, a new dimension^^
Quote:
- merchant - cool, but rename it to Barter (you have offense, not offender . It should affect exchange rates yes, but also give big discount with artifact merchants, etc.
Maybe. that would be a perk of it (since it will be hard enough to make perks for it)
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- trainer - I don't know about it, seems weird.
Why?^^ if you choose to go in this direction, it saves you the money of building upgraded unit buildings - but it also sacrifices the other skills. Good balanced, it could be a nice choosing point imo.
Quote:
- governing - no, just no. This promotes idle play and this is bad in any kind of game. Game should promote action, not turn skipping.
I WANT this badly. You know why? Because this should make you capable of having a good hero defending your town. You see, it would only work when the hero stays in town and DONT move out, so it would be quite a downer to other heroes!
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- Battle skills - many of those could be merged into a single skill that improves hero's attacks and/or initiative in combat.
I wanted to have them differ, the perks which give battle abilities will make quite a difference!
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- channeling and mysticism - I don't think there is need for 2 skills that essentially do the same (provide mana), just in a different manner.
I expected taht. To me, not only the logic in game mechanics but also that in setting is important and I think in reality, there would be both...
Quote:
- antimagic - good idea in general, but the %s are too good. I would make it instead weaken spells, both in power and in duration. Also, if you have skill that messes with casting, why not have skills that lower enemy luck or morale?
No luck skills so far. Moral is decreased through "Cruel Leader" Perk.
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rmcmurtry
Hired Hero
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posted September 02, 2010 08:22 AM |
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I like the cruel leader lol.
I would like this system if it extremely hard to get to the 5th level of it. Maybe have it so difficult that you can not get to the 5th level of commandment if you have any luck abilities.
Or you can not get to 5th level of water if you have any fire abilities and your enlightment is not level 4.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted September 02, 2010 08:26 AM |
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Edited by Jiriki9 at 12:35, 04 Sep 2010.
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as I mentioned above it IS very difficult to get to fifth skill level.
You have to reach a certain hero level which can be very high and eventually you'll have some prerequesites. ALSO, what's evry important, only ONE skill can become level 5. I think this is important. It means you can REALLY specialize only in one field. I'm also thinking if the Lvl 5 skill needs another skill place (so you can have 6 skills with one lvl. 5 or 7 skills without
EDIT: added some perks
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bludgeon
Known Hero
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posted September 04, 2010 01:07 PM |
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One thing about the leadership skill - it's "morale", not "moral".
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted September 04, 2010 02:07 PM |
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I'm not native, sorry...in german ists just "moral". Thanks for the comment
any further suggestions by you, bludge?
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bludgeon
Known Hero
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posted September 04, 2010 05:02 PM |
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Edited by bludgeon at 17:03, 04 Sep 2010.
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Well, it's a lot to inhale at once.
I don't like perk levels but that's just me. To me, if something deserves levels, it should be a separate skill.
Valor - it seems to me that the effect will rarely come into play, because the hero devotes himself to have high morale anyway. I would replace this ability with something else, for example an ability that allows you to have troops from different factions mixed together without losing morale.
Heroic & Advanced Valor - before I go into this: how common are fear effects?
Cruel Leader - a very interesting idea. Totally changes the base skill. If valor had this as a prerequiste I would see its (valors) potential.
CL actually makes Leadership useful for undead!
Severe Punishment - maybe it could give morale bonuses instead of attack/damage?
Frenzy - should be switchable. What if I have it but don't want to use it in a given combat?
Combined attack mentions advanced offensive tactics. Do you mean an ability I can't find or do you mean level 2 offesive tactics?
Press Forward - kind sucks against shooters
No Mercy - sounds very marginally useful. In general if the stack is already much weaker, you don't bother spending additional resources (of any kind) to kill it.
Archer;s Commander - change the name to Archery please.
I miss an ability that grants no melee penalty bonus.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted September 04, 2010 05:20 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 17:32, 04 Sep 2010.
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Quote:
You can have 7 skills total (+racial). From these skills, you can reach master level in up to 2 and Legend level in up to 1 skills. The other 4 skills will remain in expert level at most.
I don't think those restrictions are good. all the levels needed to be legend is already a big enough sacrifice since your hero will be less versatile in the end. for example, he could have become expert in 2 skills instead.
well, if your chance to level up your hero to the max were high, it would be good, but since they probably won't be, there's no point I think
Quote:
Offence increases your troops' melee attack by 1/2/3/4/5 * Tier.
it will make the gap between high level and low level creatures enormous.
Quote:
Ranged attack of your troops is increased by 1/2/3/4/5 * Tier.
so if you have offense and archers commander, your titans may have up to 30 + 5x7 + 5x7 = 100 attack points? 
bad idea I think, would make archers overkill.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted September 05, 2010 01:35 PM |
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Edited by Jiriki9 at 13:35, 05 Sep 2010.
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Quote:
it will make the gap between high level and low level creatures enormous.
depends. Low level creatures rely on number. If you have a stack of peaasants it will probably be about 100, with each getting a +1 bonuswith basic skill and an angel stack would get +7 for each creature, but porbably at the same time be about 3 creatures big or such, So the total bonus is even much higher for the peasants.
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so if you have offense and archers commander, your titans may have up to 30 + 5x7 + 5x7 = 100 attack points?
bad idea I think, would make archers overkill.
Offense only works on melee. WIll edit that.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted September 06, 2010 02:31 PM |
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Edited by Jiriki9 at 13:02, 11 Sep 2010.
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Valor - it seems to me that the effect will rarely come into play, because the hero devotes himself to have high morale anyway. I would replace this ability with something else, for example an ability that allows you to have troops from different factions mixed together without losing morale.
Hmmm. Just found it soemhow a necessary perk. But the other one...I think I might make THAT a skill even.
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Heroic & Advanced Valor - before I go into this: how common are fear effects?
Depends. It's a valuable perk against Necropolis, Inferno, DUngeon & such. In fear, I count quite some effects.
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Cruel Leader - a very interesting idea. Totally changes the base skill. If valor had this as a prerequiste I would see its (valors) potential.
CL actually makes Leadership useful for undead!
Thanks. Valor, however, doesn't fit, logically, with it, imo.
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Severe Punishment - maybe it could give morale bonuses instead of attack/damage?
? Why should punishemnt increase morale? O.o
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Frenzy - should be switchable. What if I have it but don't want to use it in a given combat?
Point
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Combined attack mentions advanced offensive tactics. Do you mean an ability I can't find or do you mean level 2 offesive tactics?
it means the perk offensive tactics, under offense.
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Press Forward - kind sucks against shooters
Only pushes one step backward. Shooters will mostly stand in th elast line.
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No Mercy - sounds very marginally useful. In general if the stack is already much weaker, you don't bother spending additional resources (of any kind) to kill it.
Speeds up slaughtering
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Archer;s Commander - change the name to Archery please.
I miss an ability that grants no melee penalty bonus.
Not finished. Will come and have an offense perk as condition!
Added quite osme perks. Mainly in defense, a good bit also for war machines.
EDIT: edit Diplomacy skill & more perks
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 11, 2010 07:35 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 22:37, 11 Sep 2010.
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IMO splitting the Destructive School up was a bad idea, I can't really think of any more Destructive spells than I can Light or Dark.
A few suggestions for Diplomacy perks:
Negotiation: Halves the cost of surrendering
Mercenarism: You can buy guarded map dwellings for the recruitment cost of the guards
Bribery: You can buy artefacts for twice the recruitment cost of the guards.
A few suggestions for Archery perks:
Fletching: Full-damage range is extended by 2 spaces.
Bodkin Points: Ranged attacks have a 20% chance to ignore half the enemy's defence
And IMO, Pathfinding would make a better skill than Logistics, and should also include Navigation. A few more perks might be:
Familiar Ground: Hero treats home terrain as roads
Boarding: Hero boarding ship uses only twice normal terrain movement rather than ending turn (requires Navigation)
A suggestion for a Scouting perks:
Snatch: Hero spends no movement points picking up treasures or visiting buildings
A few suggestions for Summoning perks:
Elemental Balance: Whenever an enemy summons a stack of Elementals hero receives a small stack of opposite elemental
Banishment: There's a possibility an enemy Summon spell will only have half power
A few suggestions for Light Magic perks:
Dark Ward: Enemy Dark spells have a 50% chance of failing.
Protection: Enemies of a lower spell power cannot remove Light spells with 'Cleansing'.
Magic Mirror: Enemy Dark spells have a 25% chance (included in the 50% of Warding) or rebounding onto his own creatures (requires Warding)
Refined Light: Light Magic spells cost -1 Mana per level of the spell
Burning Light: Enemy Dark Magic spells cost +1 Mana per level of the spell
A few suggestions for Dark Magic perks:
Dark Renewal: Hero gets 50% of the mana back from any spells that fail
Seal of Darkness: Enemy Light Magic spells cost +1 Mana per level of the spell
Shadow Knowledge: Dark Magic spells cost -1 Mana per level of the spell
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted September 12, 2010 03:21 PM |
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IMO splitting the Destructive School up was a bad idea, I can't really think of any more Destructive spells than I can Light or Dark.
The elemental schools aren't all destructive. I don't like ordering the spells in school just by effect, it's too mechanical for me. The elemental schools will be a bit more like H3, partly.
Fire will contain of aggressive blessings, too, and maybe of Berserk.
Water will contain some curing/Healing, and supporting magic and overall a bit of everything^^
Air will definitely have haste, Deflect Missiles and similar spells.
Earth will have defense-strengthening spells, slow, and such.
Dark Magic will contain of an dark spells - hiding, dark arts, forbidden magic, poison, such.
Light Magic will cover not only Healing and aiding spells, also Blind, for example, shall be there.
Arcane will have many of the mind spells, illusions, metamagic-...it has a high high potential of difference and is quite not just summoning magic!
...as you see, many spell effects and tyxpes can and iwll occure in many spell schools - but with highly different effects. The best "destructive" spells will probably be in fire, followed by air and water.
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A few suggestions for Diplomacy perks:
Negotiation: Halves the cost of surrendering
Mercenarism: You can buy guarded map dwellings for the recruitment cost of the guards
Bribery: You can buy artefacts for twice the recruitment cost of the guards.
Very nice!!!
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A few suggestions for Archery perks:
Fletching: Full-damage range is extended by 2 spaces.
Bodkin Points: Ranged attacks have a 20% chance to ignore half the enemy's defence
Fetching is Nice, solid idea, but is it necessary with the perk I allready have for decreasing range penalty?
Second is good! But not sure wether that should be available for all factions. And would probably have aiming as prerequesite!?
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And IMO, Pathfinding would make a better skill than Logistics, and should also include Navigation. A few more perks might be:
Familiar Ground: Hero treats home terrain as roads
Boarding: Hero boarding ship uses only twice normal terrain movement rather than ending turn (requires Navigation)
I'm sorry but I WANT navigation alone. Alone for logic.
hmmm, pathfinding I had in mind as a scouting perk...
not sure about familiar grounds, though it seems nice. Will probably use it
Boarding...that shall allready be an effect of navigation, or at least a basic navigation perk.
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A suggestion for a Scouting perks:
Snatch: Hero spends no movement points picking up treasures or visiting buildings
Not sure wether that should be in scouting...
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A few suggestions for Summoning perks:
Elemental Balance: Whenever an enemy summons a stack of Elementals hero receives a small stack of opposite elemental
Banishment: There's a possibility an enemy Summon spell will only have half power
Seem nice! Since Summoning itself is more Adventure Map based, some battle perks coudl be useful, i think
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A few suggestions for Light Magic perks:
Dark Ward: Enemy Dark spells have a 50% chance of failing.
Protection: Enemies of a lower spell power cannot remove Light spells with 'Cleansing'.
Magic Mirror: Enemy Dark spells have a 25% chance (included in the 50% of Warding) or rebounding onto his own creatures (requires Warding)
Refined Light: Light Magic spells cost -1 Mana per level of the spell
Burning Light: Enemy Dark Magic spells cost +1 Mana per level of the spell
Dark Ward seems reasonable. Maybe even a 3-level perk with increasing chance?
Protection...not sure. Seems great somehow. Shoudl also work on perk and maybe even unit abilities, imo.
Magic Mirror is an Anti-Magic Perk. And should stay imo.
THe last both I'm not sure about...
Thanks for our sugggestions, some are great and I enjoy to get your opinion and suggestiosn!
Magic Mirror
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 12, 2010 05:08 PM |
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The elemental schools aren't all destructive. I don't like ordering the spells in school just by effect, it's too mechanical for me. The elemental schools will be a bit more like H3, partly.
A little too complex and random for my tastes, but then, it's not my proposal.
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Fetching is Nice, solid idea, but is it necessary with the perk I allready have for decreasing range penalty?
Second is good! But not sure wether that should be available for all factions. And would probably have aiming as prerequesite!?
Yes, but Fletching increases your full-damage range, while Aiming increases the damage beyond that range.
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I'm sorry but I WANT navigation alone. Alone for logic.
Fair enough. I have a few suggestions for perks:
Boarding: well we already know this one
Seafolk's Blessing: Mermaids give +2 luck rather than +1
Cautious Approach: Sirens only kill 22.5% of your army, but give you experience for 30%
Sailor's Balance: Your troops get +1 combat movement while fighting on ships
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hmmm, pathfinding I had in mind as a scouting perk...
Yes, but it doesn't exactly have a Scouting type effect does it?
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Not sure wether that should be in scouting...
True, it might better fit in Logistics/Pathfinding (whichever one you make the main). How about:
Infiltration: see the guards of battle-sites with your sight range.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted September 12, 2010 05:35 PM |
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A little too complex and random for my tastes, but then, it's not my proposal.
Complex, yes - I like that random - not really. I mean it's not like I'd throw dices and put the spells randomly. I put them where I see them fit and I'll be allways capable to explain...and the spells which are not or only very hard to define in the elementals or dark/light go to arcane magic probably...
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Yes, but Fletching increases your full-damage range, while Aiming increases the damage beyond that range.
Hmmm, I thought of makign the alst level of aiming like "no range penalty"...but the perk IS interesting!
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Seafolk's Blessing: Mermaids give +2 luck rather than +1
Cautious Approach: Sirens only kill 22.5% of your army, but give you experience for 30%
Sailor's Balance: Your troops get +1 combat movement while fighting on ships
Quite creative ones here!
Yet the first two are a bit very specific aren't they?
For sailor's balance...there shall probably be SOME navigation perks increasing the combat ability on ships. All following ONE basic perk
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Yes, but it doesn't exactly have a Scouting type effect does it?
hmmm, maybe, but it seems to FIT somehow. I like the things being fitting in the setting, not just in the mechanics, and scouts seem to be quite capable of pathfinding.
BTW when you say you want pathfinding as a skill, do you mean a name change or making the penalty loose a skill instead of a perk and the movement increasement a perk at most?
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted September 12, 2010 05:46 PM |
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Yet the first two are a bit very specific aren't they?
Well it's hard not to be specific since they're so different from each other, and a t least with Sirens, so different from every other map object.
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hmmm, maybe, but it seems to FIT somehow. I like the things being fitting in the setting, not just in the mechanics, and scouts seem to be quite capable of pathfinding.
You have a point there. Hm, difficult decision.
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BTW when you say you want pathfinding as a skill, do you mean a name change or making the penalty loose a skill instead of a perk and the movement increasement a perk at most?
The second one, I want Pathfinding as the main skill, with Logistics being just a perk, along with Familiar Ground and a few others.
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted September 12, 2010 05:49 PM |
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Edited by TDL at 17:53, 12 Sep 2010.
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Hmmm, if I understood you correctly, some perks act as sub-skills with increased % in effect right? If I could suggest, I would actually suggest you to keep four schools - Elemental, Light, Darkness & Arcane - and elaborate on a certain element's strength via a sub-skill or a perk. That way (IMO) the balance between the schools would not be broken (in spite of the fact that fire school has supposed aggressive blessings and other schools their respective spells) and you could focus on balance and evening spell schools out easier
ADD-IT:
While I wont delve into skill-by-skill analysis (many of which are great, the other being either imbalanced or average), but I would advise against governing. In spite of the fact that you want your defending hero to level up, it just promotes idle play & makes up for your laziness . Other than that, it would break the balance in multi
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted September 13, 2010 06:29 AM |
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Hmmm, if I understood you correctly, some perks act as sub-skills with increased % in effect right?
In general? Yes!
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If I could suggest, I would actually suggest you to keep four schools - Elemental, Light, Darkness & Arcane - and elaborate on a certain element's strength via a sub-skill or a perk. That way (IMO) the balance between the schools would not be broken (in spite of the fact that fire school has supposed aggressive blessings and other schools their respective spells) and you could focus on balance and evening spell schools out easier
Hmmm. I'm not sure. I wanted 7 schools for a purpose. and as I allready said the elemental schools shall be more than destructive magic - so putting them together again without returning to the H5 system of Light = mainly blessings, Dark = mainly curses, elemental = damage & arcane = summoning could be difficult - and returning like that I dont want at all!
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While I wont delve into skill-by-skill analysis (many of which are great, the other being either imbalanced or average), but I would advise against governing. In spite of the fact that you want your defending hero to level up, it just promotes idle play & makes up for your laziness . Other than that, it would break the balance in multi
I don't see why!? Any hero could get it and the hero can do nothing while leveling up - yes, the first few levels will be gathered soon, but afterwards it will slow down. I can't see governing have a REAL use despite defence. Of course it could be made worse a bit to prevent imbalance!
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Well it's hard not to be specific since they're so different from each other, and a t least with Sirens, so different from every other map object.
Hmmm, probably you're right.
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The second one, I want Pathfinding as the main skill, with Logistics being just a perk, along with Familiar Ground and a few others.
Hmmm, unusual and interesting idea. I however think like it better when logistics is the main perk...But I'll think about that!
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted September 13, 2010 10:27 AM |
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Actually, the way I intended to suggest the elemental magic to you, I did not say it has to be destructive . Instead, it would have four subskills of air, water, earth, fire and each would increase the effect of a certain spell subset. This spell school could be comprised from whatever spells you want, so as long as they stick to their elemental affinity (eg.: you would not use raise dead or resurrection here). The spells could thereon vary from Air Shield, Fireball, Fire Shield, Waterwalk, Flight, Earthquake to spells like Earthen Block (summoning spell, summons a rock obstacle in a selected place in front of your army, thus reducing damage from range and blocking from certain effects), Gust of Wind (damages your opponents and pushes them away in an arc), etc. The other schools could then be rebalanced and include other spells such as Wards, Death Ripple, Prayer, etc. etc. It is all a matter of imagination.
However, a skill giving experience just from having it - no, no, no. In spite of the few level difference it would give, this skill is vastly imbalanced and obsolete to both SP and MP in HOMM. While you could say that it removes the need of some hero micromanagement, it actually does so by breaking the balance. You could probably alter the skill in a manner where the hero does something aside from the battle (probably something beneficial) and it provides some experience to him, but the amount should be low and not noticeable. However, then the skill would be useless. In fact, the skill should better be scrapped. 
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted September 13, 2010 05:32 PM |
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For the elemental magic thing: it does seem interesting. But still I feel that elemental magic would have MUCH more spells than dark/light and even arcane...
for governing: the skill is about giving you a reasonable defense of your towns, which shall be stronger the further the game gets. How about the hero gets the experience for town development? Each town can only have one hero assigned and vice versa, also the hero only gets exp when he is in th etown. He would get the exp for building then, depending on the building. ...I see your general problems but i still want to have a reasonable town defense hero in alter game without having to train it liek I will train the main heroes...
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