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| Thread: Julian Assange, Wikileaks founder, arrested |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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baklava
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posted December 08, 2010 12:47 AM |
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Julian Assange, Wikileaks founder, arrested
More.
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Jabanoss
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posted December 08, 2010 12:55 AM |
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Quote:
death threats had been made on blogs against Assange's son.
how nice....  
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WikiLeaks has already been expelled from the United States where politicians have called for Assange to be treated as a terrorist. Supporters of the website have responded by setting up hundreds of "mirror" sites to keep it online.
Mirrors FTW!
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SwampLord
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posted December 08, 2010 01:31 AM |
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I'm very interested to see what's going to come of all this. Mr. Assange seems to have underestimated the strength of the reaction against him this time.
Have to say I've got mixed feelings about this whole affair; while transparency in government and freedom of information are certainly highly desirable, at the same time diplomacy requires a level of confidentiality to function effectively.
Stuff like disclosing lists of areas around the world considered vital to American national security is what I really disagree with here.
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The_Gootch
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Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted December 08, 2010 02:00 AM |
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Does he have our attention yet? He does? Good. I can't wait to see what he's got on American bankers.
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blizzardboy
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posted December 08, 2010 02:10 AM |
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I feel like I'm reading the beginning plot of a James Bond movie.
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mamgaeater
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posted December 08, 2010 02:26 AM |
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bear with me, first post in the osm in a while.
My biggest complaint is that he isn't a terrorist. The drug cartels shooting up a police station in Mexico causing the town's entire police force to resign. That is terrorism. they are brutally exerting their power to prevent people from facing them down, they are scaring the populace into submission. (terrorism). You can argue that this wikileaks business is sabotage (depending on if you view the 'truthseeking' as good or bad) but it is not terrorism. I swear, terrorism is the most overused political buzzword.
I myself disagree with his (and subsequently his organizations) actions. (being truthful doesn't mean telling everyone everything you know Otherwise we'd all be liars). there are certain levels of transparencies that need to be kept open (politicians taking bribes and misbehaving not fulfilling promises: Where your wife keeps going every Tuesday night) and stuff that doesn't need to be revealed (locations of US sites : Where your wife buys all of her socks) Granted this line is hard to draw and there are exceptions (like if the sites in question were scamming the US or if your wife was buying thousands of dollars on socks) But from what I've heard about him he seems a little eccentric and like a drunk man i don't trust him with drawing that line.
But that's speaking strictly about the sites being listed.
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dota
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Fauch
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posted December 08, 2010 02:31 AM |
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he is accused of rape. maybe it is true, maybe not.
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Azagal
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posted December 08, 2010 03:03 AM |
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Edited by Azagal at 03:24, 08 Dec 2010.
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Fauch if you'd spend 5 minutes informing yourself on the subject rather then spewing some sensationalist informationvoid crap oneliner you'd know that he isn't accused of rape in the normal sense of the word. He had sex with 2 women in sweden and apparently he had sex with them without wearing a condom despite them insisting that he'd use one. That consitutes attempted rape in sweden. But apparently they still had sex with him. Now the question is whether they simply had less enthusiastic sex with him or whether it was a traumatic experience (more or less conceded to it vs. he scared them into sex/forced them to do it without condom). So it's not like he raped them as in forcefully violated them against their will. See the difference in meaning despite the terminology?
Now I'm not saying what he did is ok I still think it's a horrible thing to do but for fairness sake you can't just say "he's a rapist" since it's a bit misleading Fauch.
In other news I think he deserves to be punished. I mean obviously whatever law enforcement agency that has any ties to the US is under insane pressure to get the guy for anything and discredit him in public since they're pretty pissed but all that aside the guy is an egomaniac. Spreading information is one thing but making secret documents official is an entirely different story.... sure some things that have come to light shouldn't have been kept secret but they've published hundreds of thousands of documents which are unfiltered and lack any context whatsoever... that's not journalism that's going on a rampage and not caring for the potentialy dangerous consequences and the havoc such information may cause.
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Binabik
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posted December 08, 2010 03:08 AM |
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It's pretty simple, he has released classified information. The guy should be arrested for espionage and put to death for his crimes. Anyone who helps him or publishes any of that information should also be arrested for espionage.
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Azagal
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posted December 08, 2010 03:11 AM |
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Quote:
It's pretty simple, he has released classified information... and should be put to death for his crimes.
I wonder how I ever thought of you as some liberal layed back hippie. Yeah someone's out of line? Better shoot the mofo fast before those idiots demand a trial and justice and ****.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Binabik
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posted December 08, 2010 03:15 AM |
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He released classified information. That's one of the worst crimes that could be committed. Of course there should be a trial....and then kill him. I normally don't even support the death penalty, but in cases like that I do.
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SwampLord
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posted December 08, 2010 03:16 AM |
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I agree, Azagal; he claims that assertions that the documents contain information that could put lives at risk are false, but the sheer volume of documents seems to speak against this.
There's also the fact that that statement of his is patently false given that he's released documents which essentially dictate to terrorists a list of high-priority targets they should be focusing on if they really want to do damage to the United States. Some of those key locations aren't even in the US, or staffed by US military personnel; they are populated by innocent civilians with lives and families.
Given the sheer volume of documents, there's no way he could have considered all of them and what impact they might have, which makes threatening to publish all of them if anything happens to him grossly irresponsible.
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Azagal
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posted December 08, 2010 03:21 AM |
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Well I guess we agree on the nature of his actions Bin I'd simply draw different conclusion. And yeah it's like you say SwampLord.
Quote:
grossly irresponsible
pretty much sums up the whole nature of the wikileaks affair and Assange himself.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Binabik
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posted December 08, 2010 03:33 AM |
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What he claims does or does not put lives at risk doesn't matter. He released classified information and that's a very serious crime. It's not up to him to decide what should or should not be classified. If it's classified it's classified, period.
I've spent most of my life surrounded by people with security clearances, many of them very high level clearances. They don't talk about it, EVER. Some of the stuff that's classified is stupid, but it's not their choice to decide what to talk about and what not.
I'm sure every country in the world has spies, but every one of those spies also knows the consequences of getting caught. For someone to blatantly publish classified information is not only stupid and dangerous, but is just asking to get arrested and prosecuted.
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Azagal
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posted December 08, 2010 03:45 AM |
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Edited by Azagal at 03:49, 08 Dec 2010.
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You're perfectly right about that. But what annoys me the most about this whole thing is that Assange and his supporters somehow see themselves as white knights valiantly carrying the torch of enlightenment in defiance of the evil suppresive government. Which is - of course - horse ****. Assange/They have this idea that they can keep a state/government in line somehow by forcing them to be more transparent, that they actually help the average citizen by doing so (we have actual journalism for that but that's another story...). I mean it's good that certain atroceties that governments (in this case we can only talk about America since their info was leaked but it doesn't really matter which government it was) try to cover up are made public, things like that should be known.
But sharing classified information without any journalistic value, simply sharing it because it's secret?? Who the hell benefits from that except for the wrong people? I mean just take the thing in the article Bak linked too... who the hell needs to know that the nato wants to further strengthen their position in countries boardering on russia? And how can you even know how they ment it? I mean Russia and the Nato were just getting along again, maybe the idea was just a concept, maybe it was an idea, maybe they wouldn't consider it if their relations with russia got better, we don't know because it's just a piece of raw information without context whatsoever. And the result? A disappointed/pissed off russia. How did anyone benefit from that? As SwampLord said this is grosely irresponsabile and the way I see it extremely vainglorious.
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SwampLord
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posted December 08, 2010 04:21 AM |
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@Azagal-I couldn't agree more. This is especially evident in the way The Guardian has covered the story; as the ones who were initially contacted by Mr. Assange, they have quoted him as saying that the United States is essentially a tyranny actively working to repress free speech and gain an iron grip on information flow.
This is patently absurd, and somewhat infuriating. I sincerely doubt that Mr. Assange thought the United States government would be very pleased by the documents he planned to release. While I doubt that he anticipated the depth of the snowstorm he was going to trigger, he clearly knew that this would prompt outrage from governments around the world. To call a government which is attempting to protect essentially benign confidential documents and private information a tyranny the way Mr. Assange had is quite foolish; while it's certainly justified if the government is trying to cover up internal oppression or atrocities, routine diplomatic transmissions are another thing entirely. The way the whole thing has coalesced around Mr. Assange, not Wikileaks, really reeks of personal motivations to me. Mr. Assange has thrust himself into the spotlight, rather than focusing attention on the website itself.
This is also really the last thing the world needed when Iran and North Korea have become such critical flashpoints; I'd imagine that the Arab leaders who secretly spoke against Iran, for example, have been put in a very unenviable political position.
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baklava
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posted December 08, 2010 04:35 AM |
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(we have actual journalism for that but that's another story...)
Another story altogether.
Things like these, for example, apparently do not fall into the category of what actual journalism is allowed to be interested in, considering Wikileaks is responsible for its publication.
Sure. He was given confidential info about weapons deployment, military operations, trigger-happy redneck soldiers hitting children and journalists and congratulating each other (of course followed by feeling so bad on TV but what can you do, it was the enemies' fault), and God knows what else - and decided to put it on a website. He knew the risks - and probably deserves to die for his crimes against all the great nations whose dirty laundry he's exposed. After all, how can you convince people you're doing the right thing when there's someone out there showing them proof that you're lying the crap out of them? How can you maintain a healthy relationship with other countries when someone waves some papers around, telling everyone you're hoarding weapons on the border? Of course it'd be that man's fault if another world war happens. Whose else could it be?
Chain him, take him out to a square and shoot him in the head, but stop hiding behind the bloody fairytales of transparency, democracy and peace, and face the fact that imaginary freedom and paper security can and do cost real lives. I personally think that's the message the man's trying to get across. I doubt he'd be risking his, and apparently his family's, necks just to show up on the front cover of a magazine.
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is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
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SwampLord
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posted December 08, 2010 04:43 AM |
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Certainly, some of the documents Wikileaks has released no doubt depict unjust and unpunished crimes perpetrated against various groups, and those do, in fact, deserve to be published.
I think the crux of the issue is that Mr. Assange has not only shed light on "dirty laundry" which deserves to be exposed, but also compromised the confidentiality which diplomacy requires to operate. It may certainly not be ideal, and no doubt all sorts of things go on behind the public front nations put up, but that confidentiality is required nonetheless. Exposing war crimes and the like is entirely justifiable and laudable; exposing various diplomatic transmissions and documents highly sensitive to state security is not, in my eyes.
I simply don't see how Mr. Assange's release of a list of global locations considered essential to United States security, for example, has any justification.
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mvassilev
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posted December 08, 2010 05:30 AM |
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This whole Wikileaks thing is blown way out of proportion and isn't actually a big deal in either direction. Most of the information that was released is stuff we already knew or strongly suspected, so it's not like it's a huge revelation. Nor do I think anything bad is going to happen to Assange. It doesn't matter whether they convict him of rape or not, because the goal is to have people think "rapist Assange", regardless of whether he's guilty or not or what he's guilty of.
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Mytical
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posted December 08, 2010 07:14 AM |
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Heck, I don't deal with critical information..and some of the things I know are 'classified'. However, I could face criminal charges if I even talk to my family about them. So pardon me if I don't cry a river when somebody releases much more confidential information and gets in trouble for it.
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