|
| Thread: excusing the accents. | |
|
bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
|
posted March 06, 2011 10:30 PM |
|
|
excusing the accents.
something I've noticed at university, and life in general...
if you have an unusual/distinct accent, you tend to get away with a lot more in the way of offensive opinions and being generally an arsehole. a friend of mine who is absolutely unafraid to speak his mind about stuff because in a place occupied usually by white english kids, he stands out as a curmudgeonly welsh nationalist. I think my Irish friend, Jamie, said it best.
"Y'see, if I go around calling people "Sexy beasts" or make a sexist joke, it's fine when I'm here, people accept it 'cause I'm a lovable Irishman."
thus, allow me to present Bixies unofficial accent theory 01.
Closer to what is considered the RP accent (IE, the accent that is used by new's casters)/ posher the accent sounds= the less you can get away with in terms of offensive statements.
the further away from what is considered the RP accent, but still sounding within the bounds of the country/ area you live in= the more you can get away with in terms of offensive statements.
if the accent is distinctly foreign (IE very unusual)= either, you get carte blance to say whatever you like or the accent is so think people can't understand you or the accent is scary.
I can only assume that my theory in this is hopelessly floored, and it has more to do with phonicisms than foreignness of accent.
what do people think?
____________
Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
|
|
JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted March 06, 2011 10:36 PM |
|
|
I don't know. Finnish people don't have accent really, it's more about regional dialects here. Usually, if you speak further dialect, you just sound like a jerk. This goes a lot more to other dialects than others.
You won't be getting away with talking snow no matter what accent you have. If you've got a foreign accent, you're more likely to get pounded than others.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
|
|
posted March 06, 2011 10:45 PM |
|
|
Alot of countries as it seems dont like differences from other countries.
They dont understand it, they criticize other accents then disregards the rest of different customs.
Stubborn lol.
____________
Dreaming of a Better World
|
|
bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
|
|
posted March 06, 2011 10:57 PM |
|
|
depends on where you go...
I went clubbing in the states not too long ago, and I basically managed to chat up a girl just by speaking normally.
____________
Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
|
|
JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted March 06, 2011 11:02 PM |
|
|
Quote:
depends on where you go...
I went clubbing in the states not too long ago, and I basically managed to chat up a girl just by speaking normally.
well, duh? 
Want to know my most used pick-up line?
"Want to go for a smoke?", hook line and sinker all in one. That's all you need.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted March 06, 2011 11:07 PM |
|
|
|
shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted March 06, 2011 11:59 PM |
|
|
My (less smart) brother uses his accent to get away with being a dumbass who doesn't know anything, so people do his paperwork for him... but he kind of is.
____________
Youtube has terminated my account without reason.
Please express why it should be reinstated on
Twitter.
|
|
Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
|
|
posted March 07, 2011 01:26 AM |
|
|
I would rather be a smartass lol.
Better then being a dumbass 
____________
Dreaming of a Better World
|
|
friendofgunnar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
|
|
posted March 07, 2011 11:01 AM |
|
|
Quote:
I went clubbing in the states not too long ago, and I basically managed to chat up a girl just by speaking normally.
Yeah, foreign guys are novelties for American chicks, you're guarenteed at least 10 minutes before attention starts to drift. I've never learned a foreign language though so I wonder if it works in reverse.
|
|
Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
|
|
posted March 07, 2011 11:11 AM |
|
Edited by Jabanoss at 11:16, 07 Mar 2011.
|
I believe it could have an opposite effect instead. That they either just hear your accent and then dismiss you instantly as an idiot.
Or when they hear your crazy opinions they start suspecting that it might have something to do with the accent. You know if a guy from some random country appears and says that nuclear bombing is a good way to deal with mosquitoes then we "might" assume that he's a bit stupid because where he comes from...
Which is to say the next time we hear a guy with a similar accent we "will assume" that he is equally stupid.
(note: not saying that we are so much prejudiced, just saying that some folks are or might be.)
____________
"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
|
|
selcy
Famous Hero
|
|
posted March 07, 2011 11:43 AM |
|
|
I'm English and I love my American boyfriends accent I think it's cute and sexy  . I could listen to him talk all day  .
|
|
SkrentyzMienty
Famous Hero
|
|
posted March 07, 2011 09:52 PM |
|
|
Okay, this aspect of accents/dialects greatly varies within countries. For instance:
English, being spoken all around the world, and having a very irritatingly-unlogical pronounciation in regard to spelling, has obviously lead to hundreds of accents, some of them literally not mutually-intelligible. However, there isn't a "correct" form of spoken English language, therefore none is superior to others, and hence no discrimination (official) can take place in a certain dialect's speaker's direction.
In other words, I'm Polish btw, I live in the North East UK (near Newcastle) and if a "native" of this area goes down south to e.g. London to study, or vice versa, they won't be discriminated because of their accent, because virtually everyone has different accents and literally every little town in England (not to mention Scotland and others) has a distinct dialect. The explanation of this phenomenon is possibkly rooted in the medieval "clan-life" on the British isles, with inhabitants of one "clan" rarely made contact and interbred with others. That's the reason so many different accents/dialects formed between two settlements living even relatively close to each other, not to mention distant people of e.g. Scotland.
I know this only to work for English, and possibly French. However in all the languages I know, Polish, Lithuanian, and as JoonasTo pointed out-Finnish, if you are a speaker of a remote dialect and enter a bigger city, you are considered a jerk or highly uneducated/simple at best.
And it doesn't really apply to Poland actually, as there is no dialects in Poland per se (apart from Kashubian in the North, but that is a completely different language, and they speak proper Polish when needed, and Silesian, but that is a distinct dialect and likewise, they are able to speak proper when needed). So in other words, every single person speaks pretty much the same throughout the country and there is only one way of pronouncing a word, unlike English and French, with 50.
@JoonasTo, I'm working on my accent when speaking Finnish . And when you mentioned people with a foreign accent speaking, I guess you mainly meant Swedes and Viros? I want to learn Estonian after learning Finnish to a really advanced level too.
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted March 07, 2011 10:17 PM |
|
|
I have a lot of verbal (and written) communication with English speakers in my job and the accent does matter when you are attempting to deliver or get some message. My own accent is heavy like hell - according to the native English speakers - mainly from Britain - I sound like a KGB agent from the movies or a member of the Russian Mafia. But then again the native speakers themselves differ quite a lot. Some of them have crystal-clear pronunciation and it almost feels like there is no language barrier at all - others however sometimes seem to speak an almost alien language. It's all about local dialects I guess but I still can't figure our which is... hm, closer to the standard. The Scottish however are the real challenge for me and I guess I am a real challenge for them as well.
Anyway, I don't think that one's accent is something bad at all. On the contrary - the people look more interesting this way. The lack of accent or the weak accent shows better adaptation to one language and professionally it is recommendable but I prefer to know where the person comes from when I speak with him/her - makes the conversation more intriguing for me.
|
|
JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted March 07, 2011 10:21 PM |
|
|
Most foreign people speaking Finnish just can't get the language right and it comes through easily as simple, whereas languages like english, where you can use the words in their base form are more forgiving in this.
Another thing is that NO ONE speaks "the proper" Finnish here. If you're speaking Finnish by the book you will get weird looks, even weirder than if you're speaking some hillbilly dialect.
Now, Russian accent in particular and I bet many other slavic ones too are very bad because they lack some distinctive letters and they can't pronounce them. The zj that usually is associated with russian is actually easy to get rid of for most people but getting the missing letters in is a lot harder.
The Estonian isn't so much about accent, it's about the speed and style of talk that shines through when they're speaking Finnish.
Now the reaction depends solely on where you're from and that's usually done by evaluting ones accent since native Finnish people don't have one. Russian is a pretty bad base to start from. Finns aren't exactly most trustworthy or russians, slavs in general nor estonians. If you're from Sweden you're good, norway too, same goes for denmark. Germans are seen as arrogant and depending on the person might have a pretty awesome or horrible reception. Otherwise pretty bland reception, except if you're greek, sucks to be greek in Finland now thanks to the loans.
Obviously if you're from outside of europe the accent isn't important anymore but the same judgement happens based on your looks, being black, thai, etc.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
SkrentyzMienty
Famous Hero
|
|
posted March 07, 2011 11:03 PM |
|
|
Yes, I understand what you mean and first it's empowered by the fact that Finnish has relatively difficult grammar, and secondly it's different from anything other than viro and unkari. Yeah, English doesn't use any inflection or declension etc. so it's easier. The worst thing is pronounciation which is totally random, unlike say Finnish or Polish.
Yes I heard that colloquial/spoken Finnish is quite different from textbook, especially things like possessive suffixes (e.g. koira, koirani) get left out and replaced by (e.g. mun koira). I'm only learning Finnish atm, so it's textbook Finnish, but once I learn that I can start colloquial language, otherwise I'll mix everything up and speak incorrectly grammatically .
There seems to be a thing going on with Russian in particular, because they always have strong accents, even when speaking other Slavic languages, like Polish. To me personally, now Finnish pronounciation isn't hard, but when I began practicing it, the most difficult was to intonate double consonants properly (k~kk, p~pp, l~ll, t~tt etc.) And grammar rules like weak gradiation etc. (Helsinki, but Helsingissa, not Helsinkissa) you just have to memorise it. I don't think Estonian has it...
Well regardless, even though Finnish is quite bizzarre in grammar for Indo-European speakers, I love it and find it's grammar very logical and nicely structured, especially case inflecting of nouns and tenses. I'm crazy, but I'll learn it. Not even gonna attempt Hungarian yet though...
I don't believe anyone's trusting Russians, even Polish people. And why Estonians? They're your Finno-Ugric relatives  .
Do you think that if I go to Finland on holiday and try my Finnish out in shops etc. the reaction will be rather welcoming and considerate or I'll get laughed at and weird looks? I'll be trying textbook Finnish and a bit too polite probably so I guess the latter haha.
|
|
Keksimaton
Promising
Supreme Hero
Talk to the hand
|
|
posted March 10, 2011 10:17 PM |
|
|
It's cute that you really want to be accepted and avoid making a fool of yourself in front of Finns. In the bigger cities they're more accustomed to foreigners so you'd propably survive.
Estonians are kind of stereotyped as being strippers, prostitutes, alchoholics or just generally rowdy and dare I say unchaste. So they're pretty much put in the same bunch as Russians.
____________
Noone shall pass, but no one besides him shall pass.
|
|
SkrentyzMienty
Famous Hero
|
|
posted March 10, 2011 10:27 PM |
|
|
Isn't it? Well, I learn Finnish for the fun of it because I really like that language I'm Polish but live in England currently, therefore speak English like a native, so if my Finnish fails while on holiday e.g. Helsingissa, I'll use English.
I think Estonian's really interesting too. But why do such stereotypes on them exist? I understand Russians, mafia and all...
I'm thinking about starting a thread about learning languages so that any random questions about any language can be asked and answered by natives of HC. Because, for instance, while learning Finnish (even more difficult in the internet) I sometimes have problems a website can't solve, so it'll be nice to have an opportunity of having someone explain an correct a sentence you produce. Good idea?
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted March 10, 2011 10:41 PM |
|
|
There are TONS of accents in Sweden, there are a few small isolated ones which you can't understand AT ALL!
There is certainly no real racism against these accents, though its very common to make fun of the "Skånska" accent (the accent in Skåne, a county close to Denmark so its sounds a bit like danish which swedes thinks sounds ridiculous).
Värmländska, seems to be a very appreciated dialect though. Värmland is a county on the border of Norway. I like värmländska myself, but there are tons of accent in Värmland. You can't understand a few of them.
Dalmål is a bit famous to. Its spoken in the county of Dalarna (no, not Dalaran from Warcraft xD).
Stockholmska is the accent spoken in Stockholm. To me, it does not sound very weird except that they use a lot of E:s in their words.
Norrländska, a number of accents spoken in A HUGE area of Sweden also seems to be counted as a positive accent. It is very, very "deep" but also feels warm. Its hard to explain. Think of teddy bears with deep voices. xDD
Finally, the county I am from is known as the most ugly accent.  xD
I live in the county of Närke, in a region commonly known as "Gnällbältet" - "The Whining Belt". They think we sound whiny etc. The only thing that I have noticed myself is that I probably use more R:s and Ä:s (ae) than others.
However, I think the whiny accent is more withspread on the countryside and not in the main city of Närke, Örebro.
|
|
SkrentyzMienty
Famous Hero
|
|
posted March 10, 2011 10:56 PM |
|
|
In conclusion, the amount of accents a language can have is correlated with it's rules of pronounciation.
For instance, English, having NO rules of pronounciation of letters, groups of letters, and ultimately words, means that each little town in the UK/Australia/USA/whatever will have an accent that might be even unintelligible to others. This is sad and I hate English pronounciation, so random/irregular, and I personally consider such an occurrence unintelligent linguistically.
It seems that (in Europe) languages with tonns of accents/dialects are the ones with random pronounciation, mainly Western (Germanic, Romantic, Celtic), while ones with firm and regular/PHONETIC pronounciation in the East (Slavic, Baltic, and Finno-Ugric) have only one way of pronouncing a word (some slight accents occur, but not on a larger scale, and certainly don't make people from different parts of a country sound like foreigners...)
In Polish, Lithuanian, and Finnish for instance, there is only ONE way to pronounce a word/ letter/ and diphtongs.
Poland, with an area of approx. 312,000km sq, has the same "accent" throughout the country and everyone sounds identical (except for Kashubian and Silesian, but those are different languages, and their speakers can freely speak Polish properly when needed too.)
This is also true for Lithuania, while some speakers that live in e.g. Marijampole, have a slightly different accent, they virtually sound the same as people from the rest of the country.
...and then we get England (not to mention Scotland/Ireland/Wales), France, and as Xerox mentioned, Sweden (applies to other Western languages too I'm sure), where every little village has a dialect almost unintelligible to even neighbouring towns.
|
|
pha12ge
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted March 15, 2011 06:04 PM |
|
|
Its an awesome and outstanding posting
really awesome work done
____________
[url=http://reviewbeetle.com/about/faxfromcomputer/]fax from computer[/url]
[url=http://reviewbeetle.com/about/faxservice/]electronic fax services[/url]
|
| |
|
|
