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| Thread: Limits to what we would do ? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 08, 2011 06:19 PM |
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Limits to what we would do ?
How far would you go to protect your loved ones ?
Are all the bets off when it comes to saving them ?
Do you become animals capable of unthinkable acts ?
Is there at all such an act that is considered as unthinkable ?
Is it not unthinkable to not do anything against you morals ?
Would kill a man ? torture a child a woman ? Is there a limit to what you would be capable of doing whan it comes to that ?
Ask yourself that ?
I also suggest you give this movie a chance, before or afterwards  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLufgELgjhk
Me, I would do whatever it takes, of course assuming I would be able to do so, since theory is one thing and to actually do it is another one...
Your thoughts ?
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 08, 2011 06:38 PM |
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My thought is, that these are PRACTICAL questions that can be answered only after you were actually there.
And even IF you have behaved in a certain way - broken every rule, went over every limit - it doesn't mean that you would do it again, should the same situation arise again.
Oh, I think I have the right answer to these questions:
Schrödinger's Cat. (Or: what state is the cat in before someone is actually looking.) 
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Smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 08, 2011 07:02 PM |
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Yeah but the cat is a more of a philosophical paradox of a kind, this was an actual what do you think you would do in a certain position, of course its hypothetical but I hope I would be able to do whatever it takes while others will claim the stance of "highest moral ethics" in any situation, so I was merely askin "what is the morality" in certain situations ?
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JollyJoker
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Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 08, 2011 07:40 PM |
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To see what the cat is, you have to look. The state of the cat before you look is "both" or "undecided", NOT one or the other, which is what the paradox is all about (if it WAS one or another there was no paradox).
Extreme situations are like a Black Hole, and moralty is somewhat like Time and Space. It's NOT a constant.
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Smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 08, 2011 07:58 PM |
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but the cat paradox is merely a philosophical one, I look at the subject of torture/rape/murder in a more of a do you think its moral to do so? do you think you are capable of doing so? Would you ever consider doing so?... cat to me is dead the moment the poison/radiation has been released even though the paradox exists
cat = phylosophical paradox
my question is more of a moral one and one that varies between and within cultures and probably between every person in the community 
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JollyJoker
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posted April 08, 2011 09:21 PM |
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It seems you don't understand me.
I think, it doesn't matter what I, you or anyone else think here, because I don't think there is any useful correlation between what you (or anyone else) THINK, you (or anyone else) may or may not do in an extreme situation, and what you (or anyone else) would ACTUALLY do.
It is undecided - like what the cat may be - until you actually decide to act, and there is no "evidence" that would point more in this or that direction.
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Carcity
Supreme Hero
Blind Sage
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posted April 08, 2011 10:17 PM |
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Thinking that I would do whatever it takes is easy, I would do anything to protect the people I love, in my mind, atleast.
But if such a moment would actually arise, I'm not sure what I would do. Before, when moments like that have come, I've tried my best to protect them. But, if it's a life-threatening situation, I don't know. I fear death, but I don't think I would be able to cope with the loss of a person close to me if I knew I could've stopped it if I'd been braver.
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smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 08, 2011 10:40 PM |
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@ JJ I understood you the first two times, what I have asked is merely an observation of yourself, we all have a moral compass of some kind, we all want to believe and think we know how we would act in certain situations according to our own personalities and beliefs, that's what I was asking about
Wasn't expecting anyone to say "I would without a doubt do A or B", as you can see above, me myself only expressed what I think I would do however I can't know if I'm capable of it unless in an actual situation.
Bottom line is, I get what you said, I asked you what is your stance on the subject, If you claim you have no stances on any situation you have yet to experience... thats another thing, and a quite interesting way of thinking I must say 
Look at Carcity's answer above, exactly what was asked, subjective opinion..
 Carcity
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Duke_Falcon
Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2011 11:01 PM |
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Quote:
How far would you go to protect your loved ones ?
As far as I must to do so. If someone fool enough to threat my loved ones than let it be! I'll smash him and crack him and if he unlucky enough I let him live after those!
Never let my loved ones be hurt! Never ever! If I must kill to protect them then I will slaughter!
Quote:
Are all the bets off when it comes to saving them ?
As mentioned before I do not let my loved ones be hurt. No matter what or how should I be do to protect them I will do whatever what must to do to protect them.
Afterall killing a human or an animal is the same. Just slaughter...
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Do you become animals capable of unthinkable acts ?
You mean if animals are capable of unthinkable acts? Because I do not understand fully this question...
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Is there at all such an act that is considered as unthinkable ?
Have mercy on someone who deserved slow and painfull death? If you think about something than it is not unthinkable anymore.
BTW I think I know an unthinkable act: Marrying with a mere commoner if you have a more higher social status. That is unthinkable!
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Is it not unthinkable to not do anything against you morals ?
My morals when? I have different morals on a dinner than in a fight. Morals is not universal you know. And if something is against my morals I considered the committing one dishonoured therefore he\she do not count as a human being anymore. Guess what does it mean if the unlucky one deserve this with an action that induce agressive reaction...
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Would kill a man ? torture a child a woman ? Is there a limit to what you would be capable of doing whan it comes to that ?
Kill a man? Yes. It's not so hard as you think. But only if it is necessery or of that man deserved it. Just killing for fun or such is a disgraceful and barbaric deed and must punish like that!
Torture a child or a women? Even the mere question is outrageous! No torture nor killing children! NEVER!
Killing a women? Only if this is necessery! I considered women superior than males in general. So I will not even hurt a woman if I have other options!
Well, yeah, your questions are good by the way...
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Smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 08, 2011 11:16 PM |
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Edited by Smithey at 23:17, 08 Apr 2011.
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becoming an animal doing unthinkable act maens - would you do things you see as unthinkable in order to protect your loved ones
example -
In order to save your child (emphasis on "your child" not on your dragon egg )
would you torture other kids ? (torturing kids is an unthinkable act in my eyes of course)
in your answers you always said it is easy to hurt/killl someone who deserves it, but what happens if they dont deserve it ? what happens if you have to do unspeakable things to innocent people ? considering your girlfriend is studying 40 mintues away from me, what if i had her and you had to kill 5 kids to save her ? that was the real unthinkable question ? Is that something you would do without thinking twice of it or ? (btw, its all hypothetical of course and if me using your girl as an example is rude or offensive im sorry, no harm meant, say the word and I'll delete it of course and apologize)
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 08, 2011 11:28 PM |
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what I have asked is merely an observation of yourself, we all have a moral compass of some kind, we all want to believe and think we know how we would act in certain situations according to our own personalities and beliefs,
No offense, but if you think you know how you would act in certain EXTREME situations you are a fool.
Which is what Carcity is saying as well, if you ask me.
Question: How long would you endure torture? I could sketch now one or another scenario: you fear they will kill you when you tell them; lots of lives depend on your silence. And so on.
Can you hazard ANY guess? Does it make any sense to hazard one? If you hazard one - is the guess interesting in any way?
My opinion is, the more extreme and strange a situation is, the less we can predict how anyone, including ourselves will act. That's what extreme means. That's what a lot of books, movies and stories are all about: people like you and me doing unimaginable things, if the situation is right - or don't do the seemingly easiest things.
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Duke_Falcon
Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2011 11:28 PM |
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Well...
Innocent victims... May I say happens some times? That will be brutal and empty. May I say then that I feel sorry for them? Yes I do but since I do not know them but I know and love my girlfriend (as you bring her up as an example) I do what I need to save my girlfriend. Feel terrible and such but I consider my loved ones way more important than some random innocents. Sorry to say this but that how I feel it in comparison with my loved ones.
And as I mentioned earlier I never hurt a child! Only children may stop me to do thinks like I may do. Children are some sort of taboo like hurt a woman directly.
Do not know why though. Children just must be protected and\or spared. Honour dictates so! And do something against honour is one of the greatest sins!
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Duke_Falcon
Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
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posted April 08, 2011 11:39 PM |
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Quote:
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what I have asked is merely an observation of yourself, we all have a moral compass of some kind, we all want to believe and think we know how we would act in certain situations according to our own personalities and beliefs,
No offense, but if you think you know how you would act in certain EXTREME situations you are a fool.
Which is what Carcity is saying as well, if you ask me.
Question: How long would you endure torture? I could sketch now one or another scenario: you fear they will kill you when you tell them; lots of lives depend on your silence. And so on.
Can you hazard ANY guess? Does it make any sense to hazard one? If you hazard one - is the guess interesting in any way?
My opinion is, the more extreme and strange a situation is, the less we can predict how anyone, including ourselves will act. That's what extreme means. That's what a lot of books, movies and stories are all about: people like you and me doing unimaginable things, if the situation is right - or don't do the seemingly easiest things.
Torture is the most barbaric thing. Why should someone use torture?
Well, I guess because humans has little or no moral standards?
Seriously! If I captured the best my captors could do to adopt me within their ranks. As a member of them I loyal for them so torture is not necessery.
Honour demands to be loyal for your brothers-in-arms. No matter whom they are.
People do not thinking like this because they are what they are: Common ones. And common ones thinking commonly=> Loyals for their country...
I mean no offense afterall! But loyalty for a country is foolishness! What guarantees that that country will exist 10-20-50-100 years later?
I have loyalty for my House. My House now sworn allegiance for Hungary so now I some ways loyal for Hungary but not DIRECTLY! Just because I borned in this country and this country count me as a member of itself it do not mean I am hungarian. I am part of my House, loyal only for it not for the country.
So, because I thinking way different, torture seems as an unnecessery and barbaric thing what good only for terror and nothing more. But terror is a way implements insurrection and rebellion and not obedience...
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Smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 08, 2011 11:43 PM |
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No offense, but if you think you know how you would act in certain EXTREME situations you are a fool.
Which is what Carcity is saying as well, if you ask me.
Matter of fact I would go further and claim you dont even know that you would act in a same manner had you already experienced the situation once !!!
The question was about your opinion which means what would you expect yourself to do in that situation, we obviously cant know for sure but we can for sure know what we would expect of ourselves in certain situations assuming we know each others personality can we not answer that ? If I were to see a guy trying to rape a girl in an alley I'm certain I would try to help, I can't knwo for sure but I hope I would, Thats what was asked here, If I have misphrased myself then it's my bad, however if you still believe you can't possibly answer that, well JJ, you are a puzzle to me
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Question: How long would you endure torture? I could sketch now one or another scenario: you fear they will kill you when you tell them; lots of lives depend on your silence. And so on.
I would endure torture for zero seconds, I would say everything I can to save my life or to get them to kill me immediately... I see no purpose in whitstanding torture, its not about If you will break but when, hence I would say it all
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Can you hazard ANY guess? Does it make any sense to hazard one? If you hazard one - is the guess interesting in any way?
Lost me here ? feel free to rephrase yourself
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My opinion is, the more extreme and strange a situation is, the less we can predict how anyone, including ourselves will act. That's what extreme means. That's what a lot of books, movies and stories are all about: people like you and me doing unimaginable things, if the situation is right - or don't do the seemingly easiest things.
the less we can predict agreed however it doesnt stop us from expecting ourselves to act one way or another by whichever set of values we have, do you not agree with that statement ?
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Smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted April 08, 2011 11:47 PM |
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Quote:
Well...
Innocent victims... May I say happens some times? That will be brutal and empty. May I say then that I feel sorry for them? Yes I do but since I do not know them but I know and love my girlfriend (as you bring her up as an example) I do what I need to save my girlfriend. Feel terrible and such but I consider my loved ones way more important than some random innocents. Sorry to say this but that how I feel it in comparison with my loved ones.
And as I mentioned earlier I never hurt a child! Only children may stop me to do thinks like I may do. Children are some sort of taboo like hurt a woman directly.
Do not know why though. Children just must be protected and\or spared. Honour dictates so! And do something against honour is one of the greatest sins!
appreciate the honest answer
however didnt really get whether you would torture and kill 5 innocent children for me to not kill your girlfriend, but I will let it sly as I have understood what you believe in , once more
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 09, 2011 09:24 AM |
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Matter of fact I would go further and claim you dont even know that you would act in a same manner had you already experienced the situation once !!!
The question was about your opinion which means what would you expect yourself to do in that situation, we obviously cant know for sure but we can for sure know what we would expect of ourselves in certain situations assuming we know each others personality can we not answer that ? If I were to see a guy trying to rape a girl in an alley I'm certain I would try to help, I can't knwo for sure but I hope I would, Thats what was asked here, If I have misphrased myself then it's my bad, however if you still believe you can't possibly answer that, well JJ, you are a puzzle to me
I'm not expecting ANYTHING. You know, I can give you an example. I've had vivid visions of sitting in a plane with my wife, and suddenly it goes BOOM, a sickening jolt hits the plane as an engine goes, and the plane goes into a dive.
Now, what would I do? Cry in terror? Losing it completely? Try to find some "crash position", hoping to survive? Help my wife keeping it? Simply take her in my arms for the last couple of seconds?
In truth, I have no idea, I don't expect ANYTHING, and I just hope I won't ever find out.
What about the usual? Friend of mine had been camping in France with his then girl friend, some thirty years ago. When he came back, he was single again, and quite down. Couple of days later we had a talk, and he told me they had been raided by some gang who had raped his girl friend, holding him in check with a weapon all the while - I'm not sure anymore whether it was a gun or a knife. He told me, there had been 4 or 5 of them, and with the weapon in his back he had done exactly nothing, feeling completely helpless and sick. Would you ever EXPECT something to do in such a situation?
The only thing I really EXPECT from me is NOT TO ACT FOOLISHLY, whatever the situation that presents itself.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 09, 2011 06:34 PM |
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smithey talked about a guy trying to rape a girl, but the situation is different, your chances to win the fight are quite good, unless the girl isn't in a state in which she is able to fight back. 2 vs 1.
but 2 vs 5 guys with weapons, trying to resist seems suicidal indeed.
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JollyJoker
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posted April 09, 2011 08:17 PM |
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It's not working that way - you don't get solid odds in those situations.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted April 09, 2011 08:38 PM |
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Duke_Falcon
Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
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posted April 09, 2011 08:58 PM |
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Quote:
I'd nuke 99% of the world.
Why just 99%? Why not the whole 100%?
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