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| Thread: Week of Plague |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted May 08, 2011 11:58 PM |
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Poll Question:
Week of Plague
What are your thoughts on the Week of Plague? An annoying hindrance you usually use save/load to escape, or a worthwhile strategic element in the game?
In other words, do you think it adds to the series or not?
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted May 09, 2011 12:02 AM |
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The problem with it is that you can abuse it as the human player. When you know it's going to hit (several "Save & Load" should make it pretty obvious that a Week of the Plague is unavoidable), you can buy up all the creatures that you want and have money for, to spare them from their ominous fate. The AI cannot and therefore the Week of the Plague could be more or less exploited to gain the upper hand against the computer.
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted May 09, 2011 12:22 AM |
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While I hate the week in itself, I personally really think it adds depth and thinking into the game.
Simply because a player cannot just mass creature-dwellings and then be a poor sod who just waits as the units piles up and the economy stabilizes.
If he sacrifices his economy to quickly gain building that he atm is unable to fully support, then he has to be vary of a Week of Plague...
This is my opinion, I like the week, however they might need to "hard-code" so that it cannot come to early on in the game.
A week 2 week of plague just sucks. 
Btw, if you are looking through useless weeks, then I really, REALLY hope that Ubihole has scraped WEEK OF FOLLY.
Seriously I hope they annihilated it so hard that it cannot even come to the mind of any sane thinker ever again...
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 09, 2011 12:26 AM |
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I only remember month of the plague. I can say as much, as it's something I have never really liked. When playing it seemed like something so unlikely to happen, that most often it'd be a game loosing move, to expect it to come. Whereas, when it came, if you hadn't bought all your troops, you'd certainly loose the game as well.
However, at least for Heroes 3, it only seemed to occour at the very first month and relative often, so as long as it's not completely random, it makes sense to have, but there should be some warning signs. Something, which makes it reasonable and predictable, I really never understood stuff like "oh hey, now it's apparently week of angels, congrats with +5 angels for all castle players!" There doesn't seem to be any reason for those specific weeks in this world in the first place, secondly, it doesn't seem like those weeks happens because of something in said world, or if they're picked due to certain variables, it's at least not obvious enough, how these events are linked.
So, I think the plague idea can be an element that increases the stratetic depth, but then it needs changes as listed above.
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted May 09, 2011 12:48 AM |
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I've always liked the week of plague, but especially in mid to late game. It gave you a buffer to your otherwise tight financial situation. If you've got many towns and can't afford to upgrade the champion building in one of them, the week of plague can give you the necessary breathing room to do so.
In H6 I also read that the weeks will come in a certain order, so you can actually anticipate when it will strike. I don't know how that will play in. I hope we'll have an in-game calender. I hate to go in and out of the game to check the weeks like I had to do with the skill wheel in H5.
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seddy
Known Hero
Spinner of delicious cupcakes
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posted May 09, 2011 12:50 AM |
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I never, ever enjoyed that week. Unless it was like, in a campaign when I couldn't get a town. But no, not really otherwise. I just hated it.
It is just a huge downer. For everyone. Even less troop-dependant spellcasters need units to survive while they are casting spells!
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted May 09, 2011 05:17 AM |
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IMO it's not as bad as the 'weeks of idleness/calm' etc, or at least not as unbalancing.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 09, 2011 07:22 AM |
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The worst idea in Heroes was the plague. There is no additional depth strategy over a simple random variable. It ruins every custom map, as well as the creature growth does, by placing every week pesky creatures in key places they should not be.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted May 09, 2011 08:29 AM |
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It's not like War IRL has ever been balanced or anything.
Anything that forces you to change your strategy and adapt is a good thing, IMO.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 09, 2011 08:38 AM |
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Quote:
What are your thoughts on the Week of Plague? An annoying hindrance you usually use save/load to escape,
Cepheus, I think the week of plague is fixed once the game starts, and set to occur around x month, where x is different for each game. Reloading will not help, I tried to save every day, then reload x days before or x weeks, it still came. If it was only a reload issue, no one would complain.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted May 09, 2011 08:46 AM |
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Usually it happens in a better percentage when you harvest alot of creatures in your castle that has not bought yet.
Usually by the end of the month.
Basically the less in your castle, the better odds it wont be the plague!
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Dreaming of a Better World
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted May 09, 2011 08:59 AM |
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Can't really say. On one hand the thing managed to ruin my strategy on more than one occassion and seriously annoy me by doing it but on the other hand it cultivates cautiousness which tends to pay back on a strategical level. I don't really know if I'm gonna miss the thing if they get rid of it.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted May 09, 2011 09:07 AM |
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Aculias, have you serious informations about that or it is only a guess? Basically it's like saying: the higher risk of starvation is when you don't eat. 
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Era II mods and utilities
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Nelgirith
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 09, 2011 09:09 AM |
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Quote:
What are your thoughts on the Week of Plague? An annoying hindrance you usually use save/load to escape, or a worthwhile strategic element in the game?
In other words, do you think it adds to the series or not?
I hate when it happens but it's one of these "fun" elements from the saga
Quote:
Quote:
What are your thoughts on the Week of Plague? An annoying hindrance you usually use save/load to escape,
Cepheus, I think the week of plague is fixed once the game starts, and set to occur around x month, where x is different for each game. Reloading will not help, I tried to save every day, then reload x days before or x weeks, it still came. If it was only a reload issue, no one would complain.
Actually, I know that in H3 you could reload and switch the weeks, but indeed in H5 there was no random seed (weeks and skills offered to heroes didn't change)
Quote:
Usually it happens in a better percentage when you harvest alot of creatures in your castle that has not bought yet.
Usually by the end of the month.
Basically the less in your castle, the better odds it wont be the plague!
You mean that Murphy coded the week of plague ??!!!
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted May 09, 2011 09:14 AM |
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Edited by Jabanoss at 09:16, 09 May 2011.
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Well despite it's randomness, I really think it's important that if you're going to have different positive weeks like Week of Gold or Week of Conjunction, then you need to have negative ones like week of plague as well.
Personally I find the Week of Festivals to be many times more painful. (and Week of Folly like I have already mentioned, but since I hate it so I'll mention it again...)
In other words, I do not think the week is problem, just the randomness of the weeks in general. They can truly mess things up even if you are cautious.
So some kind of work to make it more balanced would IMO be appreciated.
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 09, 2011 09:20 AM |
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I hate the Week of Plague, but if they can make weeks something strategic - like that Astronomy Tower thing that allows you to change weeks in H5 - than I am all in for it as long as it does not happen early in the game.
So if they can make something strategic with the weeks and prevent it from happening within the first month or something like that, then sure why not.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted May 09, 2011 09:22 AM |
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Personally I hate the week of the plague but not because of it's effect but because of it's execution.
The effect contributes to gameplay but because it is completely random in single player it can be exploited and in multiplayer it is unreliable to contribute.
Like Jaba said, it stops people from just piling on the stock first then waiting for you to have enough budget to start buying troops an-masse.
I propose there be an alternative solution, some kind of population cap or reduced growth when your town builds up more then a few(1-4)weeks worth of creatures or so.
It prevents crazy creature hoarding strategies but can no longer be exploited in single player and will still force tactical choices in multiplayer.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 09, 2011 10:34 AM |
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Quote:
If it was only a reload issue, no one would complain.
Well in heroes 3 you can just reload (at least I can) and I still think it's an issue, because like you say, it's a random variable, what the weeks are doesn't seem to follow any logical path constructed through events in the game.
I could imagine if you could get a scout/spy to polute the towns water source, that it'd increase the likelyness of week of the plague, that if you had higher sanity conditions, it'd decrease the likelyness, etc. But there's nothing linking to such events in the game at all.
Quote:
but if they can make weeks something strategic - like that Astronomy Tower thing that allows you to change weeks in H5
I think that could work well, but in stead of changing the week, rather predict it. Then those who've invested extra ressources in such a thing, have the advantage of knowing what weeks will come. It'd make for very different games, in stead of randomly ruined games.
Quote:
I propose there be an alternative solution, some kind of population cap or reduced growth when your town builds up more then a few(1-4)weeks worth of creatures or so.
One could also drop creature growth entirely. Make there be a creature construction time and let it be possible to hire as many creatues as you want, but only to the limit that your economy actually supports.
This way, building creature buildings does not produce creatures in itself, but allows you to begin manufacturing, should you have a high enough economy. One could combine both aspects, so there's both a natural growth (where you pay when you hire) and an added growth (where you pay when you begin construction/development of the creature).
This would also make it much more reasonable to buy level 1 units in stead of level 7 units. Because level 1 units are often the most powerful pr. required ressources. However on the same time, level 1 units don't have the tactical benifits of higher level units (flight, no retal, shoot, high speed, etc.), as such every unit can suddenly become unique in relation to the game and not only in relation to other units.
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Borton
Hired Hero
A lemming in my pocket
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posted May 09, 2011 10:58 AM |
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I really like it despite admitting that several times I've had to load the last autosaved game because I forgot to recruit and I don't want to screw a 5-hour-game for that mistake.
However I think it'd be interesting if the plague effects depended on how strong the cities are. For example, we could understand that a town where almost all the buildings have been built has the necessary resources to cope with such disease, therefor there would be just a 25% dwelling penalty. On the other hand, a small village where only core creatures are available might not have a good health defence, and suffer the plague effects the way we already know.
One thing is for sure: Since there exists the month of the plague, I think there should exist the month of prosperity, when all the dwellings receive dwelling bonuses. I know there are weeks for every creature, but I think these weeks should refer more to attribute increases and random army births than to the classic effect.
Oh, and also I think that there should exist more "bad" weeks such as the week of the flood (low fire effects, etc), the week of poverty (smaller income) and so.
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The HOMM4 vampire is Dave Gahan!!!
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted May 09, 2011 11:04 AM |
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In general my stance on "debuff weeks" is that they shouldn't kill off options for the player, they should discourage them, sometimes it might be worth it to engage that stack guarding that thing that you need, even if this week places a penalty on you, but waiting it out might be worth it more then the casualties you suffer for rushing in.
The point is, week of the plague (as it stood) does not give you options, it takes them away.
You cannot invest in more creatures, you can only try and make do with what you have left over from the previous week.
"bad weeks" have the potential to alter player choices but should not remove choices.
That's my stance on it.
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