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| Thread: Biggest cliche in fantasy |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 14, 2011 09:20 PM |
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Biggest cliche in fantasy
... is the prophecy cliche.
Doesn't matter if it's dragons, witchers, end of the world or a retard defeating a powerful warlock - it has ALWAYS been foretold. I can't even recall a game or book where the key even has NOT been foretold.
Few obvious examples:
- Harry Potter - the fall of the dark lord, of course, has been foretold.
- Witcher - everything revolves around this "end of the world" prophecy.
- Lord of the Rings - EVERYTHING here has been foretold: Elves leaving, Dwarves regaining strength, Nazghul King being defeated by a woman, Gandalf taking a dump in the forest... seriously, isn't that enough?
- Baldur's Gate - Times of trouble (Bhaalspawn emerging) FORETOLD by the Aluando guy. Along with the rest of the storyline.
Seriously, writers - do you have to repeat that crap over and over again? Can't write a good book or scenario without your grand event being foretold 100/1000/10000 years ago?
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted May 14, 2011 09:36 PM |
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Yes, I found that was one of the most annoying story elements in Heroes V as well. Especially since the series had never used that crappy type of "destiny" device before.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted May 14, 2011 09:52 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 21:53, 14 May 2011.
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Quote:
Nazghul King being defeated by a woman
"Do not pursue him! He will not return to these lands. Far off yet is his doom, and not by the hand of man will he fall." - Glorfindel
He was saying that no Human would kill him. And considering that Pippin was the one that did it it all works out... Eowynn just took all the glory.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 14, 2011 09:57 PM |
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I stand corrected then, don't recall much of that book really (lucky me!  ). Still a prophecy... who foretold all of this and why? 
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted May 14, 2011 10:05 PM |
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I'd answer but considering the difference it's going to make to you I'll save myself the ~2 hours I'm sure you'll forgive me .
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 14, 2011 10:22 PM |
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Sure, no biggie
In my fantasy book there will be absolutely no prophecies, no future seeing and other garbage like that, I'm almost proud of myself! 
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted May 14, 2011 10:47 PM |
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Does it have unique beasts aswell?
Not the same old selection of Orcs, Goblins, Dragons and Manticores 
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 14, 2011 10:52 PM |
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No Orcs, Goblins or Manticores. Just humans. I however include Liches albeit I might change their name
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted May 14, 2011 10:55 PM |
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Thank god then they'll be something COMPLETELY different. Just like the Scros,Sevles and Serocitnams in my book.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 14, 2011 10:59 PM |
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Well, the world I've developed is something iirc rather unique for Fantasy settings, I'm rather proud of it, the lack of "races" doesn't really make the setting less rich (imho) 
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted May 14, 2011 11:20 PM |
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As long as it isn't unique and different just for the sake of it. What matters is the storytelling.
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted May 15, 2011 12:15 AM |
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Haaha I'm just pulling your leg Doom I'm sure your book will be great :
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted May 15, 2011 12:16 AM |
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At least you don't have snowelves
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted May 15, 2011 01:31 AM |
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Quote:
As long as it isn't unique and different just for the sake of it. What matters is the storytelling.
Yeah, clichés don't matter at all, as long as the story is good.
EDIT: I'm twisting cepheus' words. Who's going to stop me?
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If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted May 15, 2011 02:09 PM |
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Quote:
I'm twisting cepheus' words. Who's going to stop me?
You're unstoppable
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"Those who forget their history are inevitably doomed to repeat it." —Proverb, Might and Magic VIII
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted May 15, 2011 03:44 PM |
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That entire genre of fantasy is all loosely based from mythological worlds like Albion, Hibernia, Midgard, etc; where the world is inhabited by various sapient species, rather than just humans and then a bunch of mentally handicapped animals. It's a way of more distinctly expressing different aspects of the human personality. Elves generally represent the grace and beauty of man. Dwarves often the hard-work and steadfast spirit. Etc. There's thousands of fantasies that are loose spin-offs of LotR because it's marketable and that's what people like, and they won't stop being produced until people stop liking them.
Prophecies and auguries often exist in fantasy novels for the same reason fireballs and dragons do; divination is a part of that specific type of fantasy. Most of them don't even play a pivotal or major role in the books anyway, so I wouldn't say the plot is dependent on it.
As a reader, and for most readers, the most important thing is character depths and development. Having a completely unique world with completely unique critters in it is fluff. Your character development is your most important piece, so whenever you're creating new critters and such to have a 'fresh' setting, you should constantly be asking yourself 'How is this new landscape or this new critter or this new magic going to have an impact on my characters?'. The universe revolves around them and what joys and struggles you want to take them through.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Duke_Falcon
Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
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posted May 15, 2011 04:28 PM |
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If you want a fantasy free of clichees, then:
- No prophecies (as you mentioned)
- No standard\stolen mythic creatures (as you mentioned)
- No feudal\democratic clichee governments
- No victory for the good side (boring that the good always win)
With these your fantasy will be really unique and awesome!
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted May 15, 2011 04:48 PM |
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Well in my book:
- there are no gods and no religion (it vanished as culture progressed)
- both protagonists and antagonist(s) are "evil" so there's no goody two shoe cliche. There is also little morality or conscience in them, for instance, the protagonists grow in a world where slaves are treated worse than cattle and they are perfectly fine with that.
I wrote "evil" because ultimately good and evil depend on point of view. I put a lot of accent on this relativity in my book, hopefully there will be no "obvious" tags like "evil" and "good" for my chars.
- no stupid plot devices, if the foe is flagged as powerful and/or inhuman, your random human douche will NOT be able to outsmart or defeat it, EVER. No ridiculous rings, swords, deathly hallows, black wands or holy toilet seats that make a 17yo mongolistic kid able to defeat a powerful warlock.
- no feudalism, no kings.
I also try the make the world as logical as possible, the goal is to eliminate everything that might seem a logical fallacy or plothole. It's hard to do in a world of magic, multi-dimensional worlds and stuff, but I hope it's ultimately doable, at least not to create obvious "why the protagonist/antagonist couldn't do X/Y/Z and reach his goal immediately" issues
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Duke_Falcon
Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
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posted May 15, 2011 05:58 PM |
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Quote:
I also try the make the world as logical as possible, the goal is to eliminate everything that might seem a logical fallacy or plothole. It's hard to do in a world of magic, multi-dimensional worlds and stuff, but I hope it's ultimately doable, at least not to create obvious "why the protagonist/antagonist couldn't do X/Y/Z and reach his goal immediately" issues
Hell, that will be the backbone of your work! Create a whole world is hard even for a god (as I remember it took 6 days even for him).
Quote:
"why the protagonist/antagonist couldn't do X/Y/Z and reach his goal immediately" issues
That's the weakest point of almost every story! Just think of LotR, where they could jump on an eagle, fly into Mordor and drop the f**ked ring into the vulcan... But no, they went around the whole Middleearth! Or think of Star wars ep. 04 where the imperials waited instead they shoot and destroy that f**ked planet and shoot again to vaporize it's moon with the rebel base...
So, yeah, good luck for that! If you could really do that then it will be one of the best books ever!
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted May 15, 2011 06:40 PM |
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Quote:
That's the weakest point of almost every story! Just think of LotR, where they could jump on an eagle, fly into Mordor and drop the f**ked ring into the vulcan... But no, they went around the whole Middleearth!
They would have been shot down when an inch of that eagle would have reached mordor.
Quote:
Or think of Star wars ep. 04 where the
imperials waited instead they shoot and destroy that f**ked planet and shoot again to vaporize it's moon with the rebel base...
The first Death Star had a 24 hour cooldown cause the superlaser caused an insane heat buildup.
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