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| Thread: The Male Genital Mutilation Bill.... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · NEXT» |
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Smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 27, 2011 10:51 AM |
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The Male Genital Mutilation Bill....
The organisation behind a bill that aims to ban circumcision in the U.S. has set its sights on Santa Monica residents.
The Male Genital Mutilation Bill (MGMB), a not-for-profit organisation, has already successfully proposed a ban in San Francisco meaning the initiative will appear on the city's ballot this Autumn.
If the group manage to follow suit in Santa Monica residents would be voting for a ban on the procedure for males under 18, in their November 2012 ballot.
Proposal: Non-profit organisation, The Male Genital Mutilation Bill, aims to get Santa Monica residents to vote on banning circumcision on males under 18
MGMB aim to place circumcision bans on ballots across the country. Under the group's proposal circumcision would become illegal.
Anyone carrying out the procedure after such a ban would face a $1,000 fine and possibly up to a year in prison.
More...San Francisco to vote on circumcision ban that could fine parents $1,000 or put them in jail
However the group stipulates that circumcision can be carried out for medical reasons if conducted by a medical practitioner.
But it does not allow for the procedure to be carried out for religious reasons, which may certainly prompt a flurry of legal challenges alleging violations of the First Amendment's guarantee of the freedom to exercise one's religious beliefs.
Ban: If the bill was passed it would mean anyone caught carrying out a circumcision could be subject to a $1,000 fine and up to a year in prison
In the Jewish faith circumcision is traditionally carried out in the family's home by a member of the faith who has been trained in the surgical technique.
Both proposals have thrown up mixed feelings and anger from religious groups but Lloyd Schofield, a San Francisco resident who is all for banning the procedure in his city, said: 'Parents are really guardians, and guardians have to do what's in the best interest of the child. It's his body. It's his choice.'
Jewish leader, David Lehrer, however told the LA Times: 'It takes the notion of the Mommy State to a ridiculous extreme.
'It probably touches upon being anti-Semitic.'
Others in the Jewish community feel differently.
Rabbi Brad Hirschfield recently confessed in the Jewish Journal that he felt 'a certain inchoate sense of relief' after the birth of his three daughters that he wouldn't have to circumcise them eight days later.
Female circumcision often referred to as female genital mutilation, is already banned in the U.S.
A similar effort to introduce a circumcision ban in the Massachusetts Legislature last year failed to gain traction.
'It's been kind of under the radar until now, but it was a conversation that needed to happen,' Schofield said of the debate.
'We've tapped into a spark with our measure -- something that's been going on for a long time.'
International health organisations have promoted circumcision as an important strategy for reducing the spread of the AIDS virus. That's based on studies that showed it can prevent AIDS among heterosexual men in Africa
MGMB
The Male Genital Mutilation Bill (MGMB), this is without a doubt both the funniest and the scariest name a bill can have
FREAKY
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted May 27, 2011 11:04 AM |
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 Goes to say something. Stops, turns and walks away.
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Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted May 27, 2011 11:19 AM |
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That's great imo. Let adults do whatever they want with their body but leave the kids alone ffs.
"It's easier to keep it clean!"
My foreskin came with a retraction-function for easy cleaning, but I'm probably special.
"It makes it harder for STDs to spread!"
Yeah cuz babies are known to go on sexual adventures all the time, good thing we can limit the risk of STDs at least.
Oh you meant when they were older? Well when they're older they can make the decision themselves.
Or we could teach 'em to use condoms, a bit less dramatic than chopping up someone's dick I know but it's so crazy it might as well work.
"It feels better!"
Uh yeah how do you know that if you were circumsized as a baby?
"It looks better!"
Dunno 'bout you but if I looked at my penis and knew that it looked like it does because mum likes it better that way... haha...
My 2 cents.
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Smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 27, 2011 11:34 AM |
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I must confess I haven't read the piece as it seemed a bit too morbid for my taste... but the way you summed it up... well
 on all parts, brilliant !!!
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted May 27, 2011 11:59 AM |
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Edited by baklava at 12:02, 27 May 2011.
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I never really got the whole child circumcision thing. I know there are a lot of folks from Israel around here and don't want to offend, but is it really that important for you guys to cut off bits of children's penises?
I mean... does anybody really share that awkward dude's opinion that it's an antisemitic, dangerous extreme for someone to ask you not to do that until they're 18? Do people really think God would be mad at them for not doing it to their kids until they reach a certain age, or fear for their ethnic identity if that custom is modified like that? I understand that if you guys didn't keep to your traditions that much throughout history, you'd probably have been assimilated all over the world, but is that the case today?
If christening contained a bit like that, I'd be more than willing to agree on such a law. In the end, I don't think it's fair to the young Jewish guy to not be able to choose how they like their penis because of their parents' tradition.
Another issue is that the American freedom of religion laws allow the official existence of more or less any religious creed imaginable; from Jehovah's Witnesses who don't allow blood transfusions for their children, to the Church of Satan that teaches selfishness and vengeance are key to self-preservation and fulfillment. Under those conditions, I think that certain boundaries do need to exist. Imagine if Judaism didn't require the above-mentioned practice, and that a cult pops up that does that to their kids. How would people react to that? Would they be allowed to do it? What if their creed dictated that you need to - inappropriate example incoming - ejaculate over your baby? I don't want to sound obsessed with raping babies like Elodin, but you see what I'm aiming at. It'd be hard to stay consistent, like it's hard now; one of the prime reasons child circumcision is not looked down upon is because it's been done for a long time now and people got used to it, but is that reason enough?
Full freedom of religion, but let the kids grow up a little before some of the more drastic parts, that's what I'm all for.
Once again, I understand it's a sensitive topic. But uhm, yeah.
Adrius already gave a lulz reply so I did the niceguy kind.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 27, 2011 12:30 PM |
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LOL, first of all who are all those Israelis ? I haven't seen one thus far besides Insi , second of all you can't really argue reason with religious traditions, just won't fly....
The same rule applies for muslims as well....
You wanna know what else is freaky, no bacon !!!! No cheeseburgers !!! I have a Mcdonalds outside my house and they have no cheese
And next time you're about to insert mental images into my brain before lunch time, post a spoiler alert  ejaculating on babies ? Brilliant way to kill my apetite and I'm talking about the dinner as well (reminded me of that sick serbian movie )
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted May 27, 2011 12:48 PM |
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Well, you showed up late, but we were all jewed up 'til recently, at least. Some of the greatest folks on HC were from over there. Geny and Antipaladin still pop up from time to time.
LOL @ McDonald's in Israel, and the Serbian Film thingy. People still don't believe me when I try to explain them how hard I laughed when I watched that.
Maybe that's for the better. If they did believe me, I'd probably end up in a mental hospital or something.
And yeah, the OSM can be bad for the appetite, I suggest you skip it 'til after the meals.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted May 27, 2011 12:56 PM |
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One sentence that says it all - "It's a new genre, it's gonna be called newborn porn" that's when I said and stopped raping my brain, but props on staying with it 'till the end
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 27, 2011 01:47 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 13:53, 27 May 2011.
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well, I guess what I think have already been said.
it is performed mainly on kids I guess? from what I heard at the tv...
they are talking about the freedom of practising your religion, but what about the freedom of the children?
though it can be dangerous to fight with religions and dogmas.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted May 27, 2011 02:21 PM |
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TheBaron
Promising
Known Hero
dreamer of dreams
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posted May 27, 2011 02:28 PM |
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did somebody say newborn porn?
man that totally gave me a boner I MEAN APPETITE, I MEAN ... snow! *cough* ahem. Babies are not sexual. How dare you joke about them  *wipes brow* phew...
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted May 27, 2011 04:08 PM |
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Edited by Adrius at 16:13, 27 May 2011.
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Btw, after the circumcision has been performed, the baby often falls asleep which is traditionally often interpreted as "awwww, look at him, the evil has been seperated from him... he is calm now".
Now, that ain't exactly what happens. See, newborn babies have SUPERMAN-SENSES... like, the strongest emotion you can think of is not enough to match what they're feeling at all.
Naturally, a baby is also capable of feeling pain on a level that is unimaginable for us.
Thus, during circumcision, a baby's brain overloads and has to shut down to not take damage, the pain is simply too much for the brain to handle. Thus it turns "calm".
I mean, you forget all about the pain and the whole event when you get older... but I don't really think loss of memory justifies hurting someone, especially when we're talking about a pain that causes someone to lose consciousness.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 27, 2011 05:56 PM |
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This bill probably won't pass, but it'd be good if it did. Just because male circumcision is socially acceptable doesn't make it any less genital mutilation.
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Eccentric Opinion
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TheBaron
Promising
Known Hero
dreamer of dreams
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posted May 27, 2011 05:58 PM |
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i don't know about a baby being able to experience more pain than an adult... however i do agree that just because you don't remember it doesn't mean that psychological trauma has not occurred.
Put it this way, as a grown adult, if someone came up to me and said "Hey believe in my god! All he says that you have to do is cut off your foreskin to establish your covenant with him, it's that simple!" I would say 
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Warlord
Famous Hero
Lord of Image Spam
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posted May 27, 2011 06:12 PM |
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Quote:
"Hey believe in my god! All he says that you have to do is cut off your foreskin to establish your covenant with him, it's that simple!" I would say
I would say I WILL KILL YOU IF YOU TRY!! GWAARGH!!
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MacMasterMC
Known Hero
Resurrected Loreweaver
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posted May 27, 2011 07:06 PM |
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Perhaps this will be wading into the deep end here, but we should really consider whether or not we have the right to make choices and decisions for other human beings, not followers, radicals, fundamentalists, crazies, nuts, or any other term than can or has been used for someone who is not of the same faith you are, throughout all of known history.
I am not jewish, excepting by adoption into the seed of Abraham, through covenants I have made with my Savior.
If a religious practice performs something cruel and unusual, which this seems to be to most, then it should automatically be prohibited, right?
It would seem so.
However, the kosher laws, to my best understanding, were many necessary and needful ways of handling everything from food to various plants in a pretty much safe way, hundreds and thousands of years before much of modern science or medicine corroborated some of those basic things like meat handling and many other useful things.
I am not stating that the kosher laws were prophetic (though I feel they were).
What I was simply showing was that sometimes we do not understand the reason a particular faith does X or Y, or abstains from A or B. Some of those kinds of things are even not really understood by anyone not of that particular faith.
How can we realistically determine what is or is not ok to allow any given faith to be able to do?
Depending on any given topic, you can grab two random people not only from anywhere in the world, but in some cases even from the same town, who are entirely opposite each other's views.
What we really need to consider is, is it lawful, since we have no right nor ability to dictate what another's faith should consist of?
As this is in the United States, which I reside in, I will speak about the lawfulness there.
While it has been said that the circumcision of babies is quite painful to them, there ARE health related reasons. Can a boy's/man's privates be kept clean and healthy without it being done? Yes. Does it destroy that person's ability to live, seek to learn and grow how they choose, and decide what they wish to do in life? Not really.
Does having pleasure more or not really give us the right to attempt to mandate legally that a faith cannot observe a religious tradition?
Not ever.
Unless you are saying that because John Doe down the street believes opposite to you, that he has the right to legally force you not to observe your faith, for the reason that it brings you less pleasure or happiness than his choice of belief.
Can there really be any true question of this matter?
It rather appalls me that there is...
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...a shimmer in the woods, with
an expectant feel to the air...
...a figure takes shape...
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted May 27, 2011 07:31 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 19:34, 27 May 2011.
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Of course seeking to prevent parents form having their child circumcised is seeking to prevent them from being able to follow their religion. If it passes someone will take it to the Supreme Court and the law will be reversed.
It would be nice if the Jews and Muslims just moved out of California to a place that has fewer control freaks so that California continues to lose population and thus seats in the House of Representatives. We are much more tolerant down in Texas and would welcome them.
Of course most parents can't just pick up and move so easily leaving jobs and every else behind. So what they will do is take the child to a neighboring city and him circumcised there or else call some rabbi/cleric to their home to take care of it.
I'll bet many who support the law are for allowing Mommy to kill her unborn baby not not for allowing Mommy to circumcise her baby.
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Revelation
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted May 27, 2011 07:31 PM |
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I do feel the need to emphasize that this debate is purely and solely an ethical one. The core of the arguement has next-to-nothing to do with Theology or with Healthcare.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted May 27, 2011 07:44 PM |
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@Elodin weren't you against genetic engineering with unborn babies? Well if so, how is that different from this? I mean Parents deciding whats best for their kids...
Why is it okay for the parents to decide that their child's foreskin should be chopped off, but not for them to decide that they should have blue eyes? After all the difference with circumcision is that the kids can actually decide for themselves, once they grow up.
Anyways, to the topic at hand, I agree completely with Adrius and his brilliant post.
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted May 27, 2011 07:46 PM |
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Just for sake of argument, Elodin - do you condone the Muslim/African practice of slicing off female children's genetalia and sewing their vaginas permanently shut? (Also known as female circumcision in some circles.) After all, it's just a religious practice. Should parents be allowed to do this in the US?
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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