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| Thread: Conversion Idea for everyone to discuss | |
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 01, 2011 01:32 PM |
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Conversion Idea for everyone to discuss
Having conversion drawn out over a couple of days is a bad idea at this stage because so many things have to be considered. It can't be implemented - and in fact it's not necessary either. For mp play, conversion could simply be disabled.
However, especially for mp play, the good thing is that the random-town-luckily-hit-my-faction problem isn't a problem anymore, so how about this simple idea that CAN certainly be implemented?
There might be an option to simply make HIRING more expensive in converted towns.
The only question would be - has the town been converted or not? If no, everything is normal.
If yes, ALL troops you hire THERE In a converted town) would simply cost more.
The cost might start high and slowly decrease:
Example: Hiring IN week of conversion: +40%
Hiring in first week after conversion: +30%
Second week: +20%
Third week +10%
Fourth+ weeks - no additional cost.
All conversions would reset the counter, EXCEPT a RE-conversion back to initial where the additional cost would be 40%-(current)%.
Which would mean, if your town got conquered and converted, and you retook it fast, you had no problems, but if you lost it, to reconquer it a few weeks later, having found another town somewhere to revive, it was an alien town for all purposes, having become used to its new faction.
To make it clear, this would not be a penalty only for hiring the newly acquired creatures - that distinction isn't possible. It would be a penalty for being able to immediately transfer all unhired troops from everywhere of your empire (that the buildings are there for). So ALL troops hired in a converted town would cost more.
Discuss!
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Vangelis21
Supreme Hero
Manchild
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posted July 01, 2011 01:56 PM |
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I am TOTALLY pro-conversion as it is so i cannot agree with what you wrote. DO you have any reason WHY they would cost more? Is there a logical explanation behind it?
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Heroes VI is here and Necropolis is serious trouble!
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 01, 2011 01:59 PM |
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My thought is that bigger towns should simply take more time to convert to avoid abuse.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 01, 2011 02:05 PM |
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I would prefer to have the conversion "disableable" before the start of the game. As for the creature cost - the whole idea about the shared creature pools is daft and yet another nail in the coffin of the strategical aspect of the game so I'd support getting rid of it altogether rather than adapting it.
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted July 01, 2011 02:06 PM |
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Quote:
I am TOTALLY pro-conversion
Me too, i just hate then in H5 on random map my opponent have 3 native towns, me only one, why ? Conversion solve this.
Another example, 3 way game. Two players are Necro, me Sylvan. One necro take easy other necro noob. Now he have two native vs one for me on map. Not good at all ...
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted July 01, 2011 02:06 PM |
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Well his method seems more resonable than the one currently implemented at least.
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted July 01, 2011 02:10 PM |
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Raising conversion cost generate imbalances in multiplayer. If two players are necro, they don't have to convert, no money spent on that. I Sylvan, so i need to convert conquered necro town. This leads to uneven conditions, not fair.
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 01, 2011 02:14 PM |
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Converting an enemy town immediately is the right opposite of balanced.
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted July 01, 2011 02:15 PM |
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I'm with Doomforge on this. I think the most needed change aren't costs - but rather the time it takes to convert. Id say 3 days minimum, with exact number of days open for discussion and maybe even tied to town level.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 01, 2011 02:25 PM |
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Quote:
I'm with Doomforge on this. I think the most needed change aren't costs - but rather the time it takes to convert. Id say 3 days minimum, with exact number of days open for discussion and maybe even tied to town level.
+1
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted July 01, 2011 02:30 PM |
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Quote:
My thought is that bigger towns should simply take more time to convert to avoid abuse.
More time sound good cos give time to opponent to get back and retake lost town, this way no silly lost game because taken by surprise attack.
____________
Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 01, 2011 02:53 PM |
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More time won't change anything at all, it ill just be another bug source and makes no sense either:
What does everyone gain, if you have to wait 3 days before you get the town? Nothing at all. If it was an error you can make up for it, reconquering and reconverting, and if you somehow lose a creature production due to this error you dserve the loss that you would have other wise as well with a halfway decent player.
Also it's unfair when you conquer a town that is already of your faction and can make use of it immediately.
Necro cannot convert other creatures into undead in Heroes 6, so there is no advantage for them.
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mechanic
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 01, 2011 03:00 PM |
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Well,i guess the real problem here is the money
I also like the idea of conversion but ,how the game looks now,is very easy to recruit a lot of troops instantly,because in this moment,lets say,2nd or 3rd week,you already have a lot of money.
That's because is so easy to build a capitol so quickly,with a standard begining 5500gold and 5wood/ore it can be done in the 4th or 5th day.
I guess a good change would be for the capitol to require the fortifications first,because otherwise the game would be so easy,not a real strategic or competitive one.
And this is not the only thing that requires change.Among others,the creep strength must be adjusted-strong neutrals with normal growth are not competitive enough and strong with fast growth could be overpowered-somewhere in the middle of these would be more balanced.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 01, 2011 03:11 PM |
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Quote:
What does everyone gain, if you have to wait 3 days before you get the town? Nothing at all. If it was an error you can make up for it, reconquering and reconverting, and if you somehow lose a creature production due to this error you dserve the loss that you would have other wise as well with a halfway decent player.
I'll be the first to agree that if you allow your main town to be taken then you deserve whatever is coming to you. However hit&convert tactics are silly, we need them as much as we need hit&run. The lost gold(and maybe army) production is enough punishment already.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 01, 2011 04:23 PM |
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you could convert towns in WOG, but from what I remember, it was at a high cost. maybe you could get some good ideas from WOG players?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 01, 2011 04:25 PM |
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WoG is the most imbalanced mod ever, so... no 
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted July 01, 2011 05:17 PM |
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Quote:
Raising conversion cost generate imbalances in multiplayer. If two players are necro, they don't have to convert, no money spent on that. I Sylvan, so i need to convert conquered necro town. This leads to uneven conditions, not fair.
Yes, apart from the fact that there's no more new units for necromances neither Sylvan in this game. All factions seem equal in that matter.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted July 01, 2011 05:34 PM |
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Quote:
Yes, apart from the fact that there's no more new units for necromances neither Sylvan in this game. All factions seem equal in that matter.
Necro was just example. 3 way game. Let's say two players choose to be (or by random choice happen to be) Haven. Last player is Orc. This way on map are 3 towns - two haven towns, one orc town. Without town conversion game have uneven start conditions for players ... Not fair ...
If town conversion is on, but price is hi, again uneven conditions. Haven players will not pay the price, Orc will pay.
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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