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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted July 28, 2011 02:20 AM |
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Breivik is a cold, heartless monster who took years to plan his murderous rampage. No, I don't believe he can be rehabilitated.
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Revelation
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 28, 2011 02:29 AM |
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A monster for sure. But also shows how desperate some people are becoming in Europe. It's a ticking time bomb. If they don't give that frustration and anger a platform as such and a voice - and a way of getting emotion out in a democratic way - it will create more monsters like him.
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shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 28, 2011 03:10 AM |
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Quote:
an in-prison high school.
That can be hell.
I hope the other prisoners push him into the lockers, give him swirlies, call him nerd and shoot spitballs at him for 21 years straight 
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted July 28, 2011 05:06 AM |
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Quote:
I don't believe they don't integrate because the money is still there to be given. They do not because they are unable to, uneducated, insensitive and arrogant.
How many of muslim countries actually propose a school of quality, respect of human rights, women equality, access to universal culture, freedom and hope for a progress? What is the notion of respect outside the family meaning for them? What means universal history for them outside a controversial book?
1. 1950 Afghanistan, before the revolution was it?
2. Turkey was it?
3. And yes Salamander, I am disappointed over your rethoric.
There is a red line trough everything of what you say is still a undeniable truth.
Elodin: Comdemning the nordic prison system and morals are we?
[thick elitism]Our is at the least better.[/thick elitism]
We don't destroy the minds of our prisoners, and we actually attempt to rehabilitate those who has fallen outside of society?
Anders? He has just kissed his life goodbye.
He won't be able to publish any more work of his own, he won't be able to talk to the people he want to plot stuff together with, and even after 20 years of prison he will still be under permanent surveilance.
By even supporting the poltical parties he likes, or by talking to people he find amusing he will discredit them in its own way.
And: If he publishes anything, it will be unrelated to his political view, unless Norway has become something entirely different in 20 years.
And the amusing part? He will be perfectly sane, and he will not be some psycopath ravanged by a prison system.
And we will make sure he stays sane, so he will enjoy his punishment properly.
And it will be amusing.
Under your system? 20-30 years of court struggle before you actually killed him via lethal injection, or you would break his mind in prison, in a extremely painful way.
He would be sitting there talking to hard criminals, and spread insane ideas to already broken people.
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 28, 2011 06:19 AM |
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Quote:
How many of muslim countries actually propose a school of quality, respect of human rights, women equality, access to universal culture, freedom and hope for a progress? What is the notion of respect outside the family meaning for them? What means universal history for them outside a controversial book?
Are these "them"s in your questions refer to citizens of Islamic countries? Cause if so, I have never seen such a generalisation before. I'm living in Turkey and an atheist, I dislike every kind of religion, especially Islam, as it makes the most harm to me here. And I know what "respect" means more than most of the people I have known in real life or online. And regarding people who you know will actually read this as lab rats you are trying to observe is respectless for example.
About the lack of "respect of human rights, women equality, access to universal culture, freedom and hope for a progress" you are right. They don't even exist in this so called most advanced Islamic country. But about the lack of a schoold of quality, you are wrong. Bogazici Uni., Istanbul Uni, Bilkent Uni. and Bilgi Uni. are some of them.
Just wanted to clear things and to show my dislike of this arrogant attitude.
About the death penalty, I have always supported execution for mass murderers. This kind of people doesn't deserve to live while the innocent he has killed are rotting underground. Noone deserves the respect they don't show, and he showed none by killing these people so he deserves none in return.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 28, 2011 06:36 AM |
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I asked how many among them, I did not generalize, maybe read again?
What Diablo calls "rhetorical" was in fact a question seeking for an answer.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted July 28, 2011 06:50 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 19:05, 28 Jul 2011.
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It is so snowing disgusting to read what some of you wrote here.
At least create your anti-muslim(immigration) thread and leave this one alone.
This thread is about a terror act commited by a christian,extreme right wing "crusader".
I doubt his mom wrote the manuscript for him. His manuscript is very intelligently written. This does not seem to be the work of a madman eh?
The attack on the island was very clever.No where to run,no need at aiming.Just shoot em.
Each of his shots was done in semi automatic mode so that each shot kills.
We should not be wasting bullets,are we?
There are obviosuly some people behind him,but i doubt that will ever get discovered because how people support right wing aproaches.I am amazed to read of many people like his view on the muslim "danger".
I was amazed that he considers Kosovo as a muslim foothold to al qaida.I have no doubt people will believe that aswell.
In the end,european people fall short of being educated people.
They dont differ from the "uneducated" guys in the middle east as Salamandre claims.
Ever been in a muslim country Salamndre? Take Turkey as an example. It has everything what an european country has.
The people who dont read and look outside the "Tube"(The TV) are the european people.Pretty uneducated to me.
Quote:
Quote:
an in-prison high school.
That can be hell.
I hope the other prisoners push him into the lockers, give him swirlies, call him nerd and shoot spitballs at him for 21 years straight
When some school shooting happens,your quote wont seem as funny as you pretend it to be.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 28, 2011 07:02 PM |
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My mistake, I thought the thread may be used to seek answers about what were his motivations, or how was possible he became a mass killer. Keeping nice, pink and clean every discussion is the shorter way to constantly hide from problems.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted July 28, 2011 07:37 PM |
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Quote:
This thread is about a terror act commited by a christian,extreme right wing "crusader".
You claim Brevick is a Christian. I dispute your claim and I present evidence that your claim is false below.
NOTHING in the New Testament teaches violence. NOTHING. Sir, could you show one instance of Jesus leading or authorizing a raid on Rome? Could you show any of his words that call for or condone violence? Or any passage in the New Testament that calls for Christians to commit violent acts? Jesus and his apostles called for peace sir, not for terrorism or crusades.
Mat 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Did Jesus call for crusades? Nope. He said his kingdom is not of this world and thus no one picks up a weapon to fight for his kingdom.
Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Did Jesus and the disciples go kill a bunch of Jewish kids to motivate the Jews to kick the Romans out of the Holy Land? Nope. Jesus said not to murder.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Breivik did not follow the teachings of Christ and is not a Christian according to the words of Jesus Christ. Jesus said if you do not follow his teachings you are not his.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Jesus taught us to love everyone, even our enemies. Not to kill them. The Bible says anyone who claims to know God but who hates or murders is a liar.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
1Jn 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
According to the Bible the man who killed all those kids did not know God. He is a liar in calling himself a Christian. He hates people and he murders and he does not live according to the core teachings of Christianity.
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted July 28, 2011 07:43 PM |
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 28, 2011 08:01 PM |
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Elodin, I find your argument a bit mixed.
yes, I do agree that he does not follow Christianity, however - if you only consider those people who follow all the teachings Christians, there are pretty much no Christians at all on Earth. Sinning is prohibited - all sinning, like lying for instance which we constantly do. So are there no Christians on Earth because nobody really does what the religion is about in 100%?
I do agree however that claiming Breivik is some sort of Christian crusader is somewhat illogical.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted July 28, 2011 08:05 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 20:08, 28 Jul 2011.
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Breivik claims he is a christian,not me.
As for christianity not claiming to kill people,well you said that you support the execution of him. Is that christian Elo?
You should love him.
@ doomforge
Maybe.
The idea for a christian crusader comes from the fact that he is/was a memeber of the Knights templar freemansons in Norway and the anti muslim group EDL-english defense league.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 28, 2011 08:14 PM |
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He also claims his action had political reasons and does not mention religious ones.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted July 28, 2011 08:45 PM |
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Quote:
He also claims his action had political reasons and does not mention religious ones.
i read somewhere that he mentioned the word "Crusader" in his manuscript.
http://hotair.com/greenroom/archives/2011/07/25/anders-breivik-post-modern-crusader/
Also,anybody here wondering why the hell the police lagged so much to stop him? it took them 1 and half hours to arrive there?
I guess the polcie in norway need help from international organizations in order to help them with their problems.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 28, 2011 08:48 PM |
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The Police of Norway commented on this. They consider their arrival time "satisfying" considering the situation. I'd link the article but I'm too lazy for it.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted July 28, 2011 08:55 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 21:06, 28 Jul 2011.
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Guys, this thread is on the verge of being temporarily closed.
Seraphim, you've already gotten a warning recently, so don't push it.
There's nothing wrong with Elodin's post except for the fact that it treads ground he's covered many times before. I'm certainly not going to delete it. The bomber identified himself as a Christian; Elodin is saying that the guy did not adhere to or represent what Elodin believes are Christian values.
Whatever you may think of that, this thread is not about who is and who isn't a Christian, so please take that general discussion elsewhere.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted July 28, 2011 09:05 PM |
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Quote:
Also,anybody here wondering why the hell the police lagged so much to stop him? it took them 1 and half hours to arrive there?
The police was there 20-30 minuttes after the shooting, the problem is that they lacked the gear and training to actually assault a fully armed man.
The real problem is that the socalled SWAT team is the only 1, and we did not have a fully armored helicopter at 24/7 standby.
The other problem is also that there is a actual distance, and no high speed driveway in Oslo, meaning that it will take time to get anywhere anyhow.
Timetable:
Quote:
5:27 p.m.: Notification of shooting at Utøya to Northern Buskerud pd
5:30pm : Operations Centre in Oslo police received notification of the shooting on Utøya
5:38 p.m.: Oslo police receiving aid request from Nordre Buskerud pd
5:52 p.m.: The first police patrol arrives in the area - must wait for a suitable boat
6:03 p.m.: The message that the boat was on its way
6:09 p.m.: Emergency Squad present on the mainland
6:25 p.m.: Emergency squad landed on Utøya
6:27 p.m.: The offender arrested
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted July 28, 2011 09:40 PM |
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What I find interesting is why the regular cops lack the skills to go in.
In Finland if there's a situation like this the regular cops would have gone to the island. Finland is too large country to wait for special squad to get there so normal cops also got the training. Seeing as Norway is rather comparable it just feels strange they rely on the special squad.
Another thing is the lack of transportation. Here cops don't have a single helicopter, they use the ones from border guards, army and so forth. But not a suitable boat? That's kinda silly. They could have taken boats from the nearby houses. No one said they only had to use one boat.
This all is shaded by the fact that it was close to Oslo so the waiting for the special squad and boats weren't bad at all. All things considered, good job guys. 
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Darkshadow
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Cerise Princess
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posted July 28, 2011 09:42 PM |
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Quote:
What I find interesting is why the regular cops lack the skills to go in.
In Finland if there's a situation like this the regular cops would have gone to the island. Finland is too large country to wait for special squad to get there so normal cops also got the training.
Didn't the police special units improve their arrival time significantly after the school shootings? 
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted July 28, 2011 09:46 PM |
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no
They planned on it but it was deemed overkill. Then they just had some exercises and that was that. They still have to order an APC from the army if they want one.
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