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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 04, 2011 10:11 AM |
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He'll of course watch the Varg Veum thrillers with Trond Espen Seim as Varg Veum.
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Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 04, 2011 12:28 PM |
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He should be put in solitary with muslim religious stations playing 24/7 in his tiny cramped room. really.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted August 04, 2011 12:37 PM |
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Still don't see the point in making him suffer really ^^
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Shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted August 04, 2011 12:43 PM |
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Was actually a joke... but TBH being forced to listen to people rather than complete solitude is actually more lenient.
I don't think he's getting solitary though.
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Youtube has terminated my account without reason.
Please express why it should be reinstated on
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted November 30, 2011 12:23 AM |
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And so Breivik is found to be legally insane. Another mass murderer escapes justice.
Clicky
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Revelation
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted November 30, 2011 12:27 AM |
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Did anyone actually doubt that this guy was absolutely insane?
He still gets locked up in a mental hospital for the rest of his life, can't hurt anyone from there. I don't see the need for anything more.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted November 30, 2011 02:13 AM |
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I guess Elodins idea of justice is different then.
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted November 30, 2011 03:00 AM |
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Quote:
He still gets locked up in a mental hospital for the rest of his life
Not if he at one point is deemed healthy, or no longer a threat to society. They do such an evaluation every three years, so he might be out in the streets in 20 years for all we know. There have been several strong reactions to the report, especially by the survivors, demanding an international "quality check".
I don't see how someone planning an attack for seven years is not legally responsible for the actions he did.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted November 30, 2011 03:20 AM |
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You mean it's not insane to plan an attack for seven years? Insanity is not a heath of the moment thing, that's actually often the opposite, or temporary insanity, if you want.
Anyway, I'm quite confident that those tests are actually useable. If they weren't then it doesn't make much sense to use them in the first place, but I realise that's no proper argument in itself.
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted November 30, 2011 03:39 AM |
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Do you mean insane in the medical or common use of the term? In this context it means that he cannot be held accountable for his actions. That's absurd. He knew what he was doing, he planned it for a long time, and he executed the crimes with clarity. When the police arrived, he immediately surrendered, because he wanted to spread his manifest.
I agree that the justification of his actions is "crazy", but that doesn't mean he can't be held responsible for what he did.
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted November 30, 2011 04:10 AM |
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What I want to know is what purpose is there to keep him alive?
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The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted November 30, 2011 04:21 AM |
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Wherever they keep him, the most important thing is that they don't dick around with keeping an eye on him. He shot dozens of people to pieces, successfully planted a bomb, and is overall a physically and mentally capable person. If they want to call him insane, sure, he's insane; whatever floats their boat (these sorts of definitions are ever so hazy). This news really isn't too surprising. Why it can matter is that you really can't treat a person with a unique reality the way you can a normal person. It brings into question the issue of cruelty. If a person suffers from severe paranoia, for example, you really have no business putting them in with regular inmates.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted November 30, 2011 03:32 PM |
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Quote:
In this context it means that he cannot be held accountable for his actions. That's absurd. He knew what he was doing, he planned it for a long time, and he executed the crimes with clarity.
We are only observers from a distance of which we can make no useable measurements to satisfy this question. As such it seems quite meaningless to discuss.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted November 30, 2011 04:16 PM |
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Quote:
And so Breivik is found to be legally insane. Another mass murderer escapes justice.
Clicky
Thats not what the reports have said at all, its just a poor translation to create tabloid media.
"Utilregnelig" does not translate to insane, insane translates to "gal" which means that you are living in a fairytail of another world.
"Utilregnelig" translates to "Less accountable" and not "Unaccountable".
3 psycologists have worked with him for a few months, and all 3 of them thinks he is suffering from "Paranoid Schizophrenia", which basically means "a skewed view of reality".
The odd thing about this is that a Swedish psycologist(the person who invented "Suspect Profile", widely adopted by the police. Ulf Åsgård) actually doubts them, but he also says he has only read the manifest and everything comment and speech from the press conferances.
But Åsgard could be right, and this could be just another political "smearing campagin" that was forced upon the 3 psycologists, so they can get him to a mental asylum and turn him insane via various methods.
Another important point is that the norwegian psyciatric clinics and asylums don't have a good historical standard. A good example was Hamsun after WW2, where they just put him there and declare him insane to discredit that he was a firm SS supporter. After a fair bit of fighting it turned out that well, he was perfectly normal in his head, but that would be a political scandale.
The asylums also resorted to lobotomy with a deathrate of roughly 1/3 when they started to get too crowded, so its not a institute with much "credit".
A small point: Norwegians courts choose to ignore this, mainly because its not a serious diagnose. They have done so in the past.
And I must yet again stress that "Utilregnelig" is a pretty psuedoscientific diagnosis that does not mean "Insanity".
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted December 01, 2011 01:57 AM |
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He was also deemed psychotic when he committed his actions, as well as during the interviews. This is the main reason for him being "utilregnelig". And I don't know of any cases where such a report has been ignored by the court, although it legally can be.
It's all based on him having a different world view than the psychologists.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted December 01, 2011 10:09 AM |
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I already know the courts ignored everything from the psycologists back in the Fritz Moen case, which also serves as a double miscarriage of justice ironically enough.
If I dig more, I will find more.
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted December 01, 2011 10:54 AM |
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I don't see the connection. Moen was physically handicapped, but was never declared psychotic.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted December 01, 2011 11:50 AM |
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The entire case fell on what he said in court, and the psyciatrists already had him judges as "Unrealiable and prone to make lies".
It a case where they got ignored.
I think about Hamsun too that he had his court case before the farse of psycologists declare him "sane". So 2 examples.
If I dig and ask around, I will also find more severe cases of this.
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted December 01, 2011 01:31 PM |
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Moen is still something entirely different. Knut Hamsun on the other hand is a better example, although it's important to note that "varig svekkede sjelsevner", which was Hamsuns diagnose, is not a psychiatric diagnose, as paranoid schizophrenia is. The latter is also a very serious diagnose, as is the claim of him being psychotic. Regarding what you said initially;
Quote:
Norwegians courts choose to ignore this, mainly because its not a serious diagnose. They have done so in the past.
I don't believe this statement is true. As I said, I don't know of any cases where such a diagnose has been ignored. And if it has been, it's a rare exception, not the rule as you make it sound.
But I don't feel the need to derail the thread any further. The diagnose has been controversial, but unless it's proven incorrect, I believe the court will sentence him to forced psychiatric treatment, and not jail.
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Brukernavn
Hero of Order
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posted January 13, 2012 01:04 PM |
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In a press conference today it will be announced that new experts will be appointed to review the conclusion the previous experts made about Brivik's mental health.
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This thread is pages long: 
