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| Thread: Why do wolves get such a bad rap in H6? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted October 14, 2011 12:57 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 00:58, 14 Oct 2011.
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First off, the empire is heavily based of Europe.
Second; the wolves aren't just man eaters.
They're also demon eaters, naga eaters, kappa eaters, spirit eaters, orc eaters, undead eaters, etc.
Third; depicting dire wolves as aggressive creatures is not an uncommon thing to do in fantasy video games!
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Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
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posted October 14, 2011 01:00 AM |
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I mean, jesus, man. Get over it.
Druids can't really call down thunder and lightning, but during the roman conquest they were a "threat" because of how scary they were on the battlefield.
The entire concept of demons and devils is based on the human fear of the unknown; when people first met a race of men that didn't look like them, they called them demons because they were "other".
Sheesh, you'd think with all the knowledge we have now about the origins of demons and the nature of druids, people would stop including them in games.
If you've got a problem with animals defending their territory, you've got a problem with the entire fantasy genre.
Personally, I'd like to see some polar bears on the battlefield. Or some giant pythons. Show me a hero riding a cheetah.
You know, lions and eagles don't typically eat people; maybe they should get rid of griffins, too.
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Inudaughter
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 14, 2011 01:29 AM |
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Actually, this female agrees with Raeleg a little bit. I am sick and tired of feeling guilty about killing wolves (since it's required to level-up). Dragon Age Origins had me twitching in horror since the party kept going after every wolf in sight despite orders. Wolves are sexy, smart, sweet, and terrifying. I approve of having a duchy whose trademark is wolves. What I don't like is that they are antagonists, not allies or good guys. Think, like Kouga in Inuyasha (bad video game, good manga). If only he didn't wear that kilt he would be a hot man, especially with all those wolves loyal to him. It's fun in a bestial sort of way, much more interesting than vampires because they know nothing about loyalty (and lusty fan-fic.) They also make good pets in a video game. If only I could make my character use one instead of those damned boring horses, like a bad fantasy novel! (Think Princess Monoke, who wouldn't want to be her?) Now that is a kick-ass warrior maiden! But that's part of the appeal of Okami to me as a girl-gamer- she was a sensual beauty to inhabit via PS2-contoller.
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Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
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posted October 14, 2011 01:53 AM |
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Edited by Aosaw at 01:55, 14 Oct 2011.
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In any of the games or animes (or games based on anime) that you just mentioned, are wolves treated with friendship by the general populace?
No.
The people run in terror, because nobody wants to be eaten by a damn wolf. (The exception being Okami, which is about a spirit wolf, which for some reason people are more inclined to talk to rather than flee.)
Now, you're right, in that most wolves aren't "out to get you", and that most of the fear comes from a mob mentality and from stories about a few isolated cases.
However, the mindset possessed by the characters in games like this is that exact mob mentality. From the perspective of heroes in this world (and in most fantasy settings), wolves are "out to get you", because they're living in a world where those stories are being written.
As a result, the Wolf Duchy is seen as antagonistic, because they're the ones with the gall to adopt a "murderous, evil" creature as their banner. Likely, the duchy has forgotten the proud reasons for this initial decision, and the animosity from other families has turned them into exactly the kind of people everyone says they are (cf. House Slytherin).
Now, I'm not defending the Wolf as a creature within Heroes 6. I'm just saying, maybe you don't have to start a crusade just because out of the several animal mascots involved here, the one they chose to be the "bad guy" happens to be the one that makes sense.
After all: you don't see many deer hunting down the sick and goring them with their antlers, do you?
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Inudaughter
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 14, 2011 02:45 AM |
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Quote:
Now, I'm not defending the Wolf as a creature within Heroes 6. I'm just saying, maybe you don't have to start a crusade just because out of the several animal mascots involved here, the one they chose to be the "bad guy" happens to be the one that makes sense.
After all: you don't see many deer hunting down the sick and goring them with their antlers, do you?[/quote.
Sorry, but I can crusade whatever damn well like- or not. Let's eat the freak'n deer! But LITERATURE has always driven a current society forward- or back. Women's equal rights had to be pushed through literature and effort long before some of the sexism of the past hundred years rolled back. The same goes for anything, even technology. Cellphones were invented by a dude watching STAR TREK for cripes sake. Humans are extremely vulnerable to manipulation, so if one says WOLF=GOOD a fool will believe it. If one says WOLF=BAD some one is equally likely to believe it, especially if you give the poor prat a cookie. Or reinforce the thought through cultural means like video games which are such a tiny portion of society as a whole but becoming mainstream. By the way an angry deer faction would be so ridiculously awesome. Better yet, angry porquepine warriors instead of hounds. PS, there is nothing more exciting in video game than your entire party getting mauled by wolves.
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Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
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posted October 14, 2011 03:05 AM |
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If you have a problem with the way literature treats a specific archetype (and my god, I hope you never have to read your children the story of Little Red Riding Hood), then the onus is on you to create a work that incorporates the change you wish to see. There's nothing wrong with that; hell, I'm writing a fantasy novel right now with homosexuality as a central theme because it's a notable void in the genre. Be the change you want to see, in other words.
Encourage your friends to watch Princess Mononoke, or play Okami, or Twilight Princess. That's fine.
Don't get pissy because this game took a step sideways instead of forward. After all, this is a game that is iconic for reinforcing stereotypes and fantasy tropes.
Personally, I'd like to see the wolf/dire wolf in the Haven lineup when you're facing the Wolf Duchy. It doesn't make sense to me that the Griffin duchy gets their mascot as an elite creature, and the Wolf duchy has to fight their mascot in neutral battles.
My beef with wolves has nothing to do with archetypes. There are plenty of other sociopolitical catastrophes being promoted in this game, and I tend to think that mistreatment of a pack of sixty wolves that are standing between me and a major artifact is the least of our worries. 
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Momo
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 14, 2011 03:55 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Werewolf origin: So a wizard got drunk one night...
He didn't happen to have anything to do with the Dewitchery Diamond, did he?
Only if the wizard's name is Abraham.
Quote:
My beef with wolves has nothing to do with archetypes. There are plenty of other sociopolitical catastrophes being promoted in this game, and I tend to think that mistreatment of a pack of sixty wolves that are standing between me and a major artifact is the least of our worries.
This game promotes sociopolitical catastrophes?!? Like, which ones?
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Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
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posted October 14, 2011 04:12 AM |
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Mostly with regard to women. I started a thread about it several months ago, so I won't rehash everything here, but suffice to say that I felt much the same way about all the female creatures as people feel about wolves getting a "bad rap".
And yes, I realize that makes me a hypocrite.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted October 14, 2011 07:26 AM |
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I usually feel badder about killing, say, peasants or sprites.
Not sistals though they can go screw themselves
Inu, this one's for you
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Inudaughter
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 14, 2011 01:17 PM |
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Awe, thank you that's so sweet. The picture's cute. But really, what does a griffen being the playable general's mascot say about griffens? I'm not sure it equates that they are independent-minded but then again they were all over the maps as neutral creatures last game. Maybe the wolves being the Duke's mascot isn't such a bad analogy since he is serving the King's wishes by being aggressive towards the orcs. In that sense, he kind of has a pack mentality although he could be a pure opportunist. But maybe the griffens are there to say, "I am bigger and more bad-ass" than the other nobles.
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B0rsuk
Promising
Famous Hero
DooM prophet
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posted October 14, 2011 07:47 PM |
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Quote:
Nah, the Orcs just have a thing against Demons and they wanna be left alone to live in freedom.
I thought it was Heroes of Might and Magic forum, not Warcraft forum ?
About werewolves: they're interesting creatures, but unlike vampires they don't come with any specific gameplay mechanic. Strong, powerful, savage... no unique traits. There's shapeshifting, but it's hard to come up with an interesting and balanced mechanic that would work in HOMM.
Another classic fantasy motive curiously missing from HOMM: invisibility. No Invisibility spell, no invisible creatures. Heroes IV had bandits and thief heroes.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5um8QWWRvo RSA Animate - Smile or die
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Breefolk
Tavern Dweller
Butt-kickeress
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posted October 14, 2011 08:10 PM |
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I'll say one thing here about the wolf debate: there is no shortage of fantasy depictions of noble wolves. In recent years, wolves have been depicted as good almost as much as they have been depicted as evil. A few examples:
Warcraft, as much maligned as it is among the Heroes fandom, has quite a few good examples of noble wolves. Orcs, some of the most honorable characters since the reformation of the Horde, typically ride wolves, and one of the most powerful and noble Ancients is the wolf Goldrinn. Shamans in World of Warcraft can TURN INTO wolves for traveling.
As mentioned previously, A Song of Ice and Fire depicts wolves as being the noble underdog (pun not intended  ).
The French film Brotherhood of the Wolf plays with it a bit by having the murderous creature killing people rumored to be a wolf, but the protagonists adamantly denying that a wolf could be so bloodthirsty, and indeed revealing later that the creature is, in fact, something else.
The fact remains, however, that wolves are predators. Yes, they are not monsters in the way they are sometimes characterized, but they are not harmless either. I do not see them, in H6, to be anything more than a wilderness threat. They are dangerous creatures, but not because they are malevolent. The Wolf Duchy doesn't seem wholely evil to me either. Duke Gerhart may be a cruel man, but there is no indication that all Wolfs are so cruel any more than all Griffons would be.
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted April 28, 2013 12:27 AM |
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I decided to spend some of my dark energy to necro this thread back into existance. And I got some reasons for it:
First of all, its is a nice read, and second, its funny how the things have changed, from 'evil' Gerhart and his wolf dutchy to mighty wolf troops from DoC still missing wolf justicar and captains..
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted April 14, 2014 06:29 PM |
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B0rsuk said:
Quote:
About werewolves: they're interesting creatures, but unlike vampires they don't come with any specific gameplay mechanic. Strong, powerful, savage... no unique traits. There's shapeshifting, but it's hard to come up with an interesting and balanced mechanic that would work in HOMM.
How about elven druids, who are spellcaster when in human form and might melee when in beast form (doesn't have to be wolf, bear or cat would also be nice). It would be a bit similar to those namtaru's.
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