|
| Thread: The Strongest Faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
|
Robb
Adventuring Hero
|
posted November 09, 2011 09:09 PM |
|
|
The Strongest Faction
Haven's peasants are really weak. The Worst.
The Assassin is obviously the best level1.
Although the peasant is v.weak, he can be trained to a paladin with enough money.
If you have tons of money(I mean LOTS!)
You can have 51 paladins a week.
My strategy is to promote peasants to archers then promote them to crossbowmen or marksmen.
My vote would go for Haven, with the archangel resurrect , that can cap a lot of things.
The paladins are very powerful with a few stacks of angels.
The Crossbowman can deal lots of damage quickly.
Marksmen can ignore defence when three tiles away, which can be v.powerful if you have lots of attack with your hero.
Necros are weak compared to most other factions.
Infernos need to be quick.
Dungeon are good, but weak in melee.
Orcs are reasonable, never played them though, only fought them.
Dwarves are really weak.
Sylvan are a good bet, but all you need is mass slow or curse.
Academy is the other rival.
Gremlins can fix units, which is like rez.
Gargoyles are too slow.
Golems sturdy but are low on damage.
Mages are better than griffins.
Djiins are good with luck/blessing/curse.
Rakasha are good but low on HP.
Titans are powerful, but are easy to kill.
Bye for now.
____________
|
|
Vindicator
Supreme Hero
Right Back Extraordinaire
|
|
posted November 09, 2011 10:59 PM |
|
|
|
Robb
Adventuring Hero
|
|
posted November 09, 2011 11:24 PM |
|
|
Just saying.
Thas all.
____________
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted November 13, 2011 01:14 AM |
|
|
You'd be surprised to see what Ellaine's peasants can do with vitality, retribution and vampirism  Seriously hardcore.
Assassins are fairly useless unfortunately, their low numbers are not enough compensation. Dungeon units generally fall like flies come month 2.
There is a training of 13 units/week so it's not all that bad. Generally people train the priests into cavaliers and then use whatever gold remains to train peasants though there are more possibilities.
Marksmen are rather obsolete since tote, everyone picks crossbowmen with good reason.
Necro is fairly awesome, easily the second fastest rusher. If you play fast you have little to worry about.
Dungeon melee is pretty goddamn good actually. Mostly because of elemental chains, if you also get some might skills they rule. A healthy balance between might&magic can go a long way for warlocks.
Dwarves are actually a broken race. Seriously good unless it's a rushing map but those aren't balanced anyway.
As for academy it's not so much about their army but your skill as a spellcaster. I often avoid attacking to prevent retaliations, might rarely wins games unless you have 1-2 rare might skills and extremely good knowledge for artificer.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
zaio-baio
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted November 15, 2011 03:55 AM |
|
|
Retribution doesnt stack with vampirism 
Damn, i just needed to do that 
|
|
OrangeFury
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted November 15, 2011 09:08 PM |
|
|
I like elf sylvan the most, and hero Ossir...but i heard the Wyngall is real powerhouse.
Quote:
There is a training of 13 units/week so it's not all that bad. Generally people train the priests into cavaliers and then use whatever gold remains to train peasants though there are more possibilities.
When do you build training grounds and Hall of Heroes upgrade (7=>20)
does it depends on map, game plan or hero choice(dugglas?)
Thanks
|
|
SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
|
|
posted November 16, 2011 12:31 AM |
|
|
ofc depends on map & amount of resources esp. gold & wood...generally after you build cavalier dwelling & angel dwelling & capitol & castle is when one can look at training grounds...most likely near end of week 4 or week 5...altho if short of resources & approaching end of week & can't afford much else to build, I might get training grounds near end of week to get more xbows in that week.
@zaio-baio: not only does retribution not go together with vampirism, but no-one uses the haven lvl 1's to fight with
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus 
|
|
zaio-baio
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted November 16, 2011 12:47 AM |
|
|
well i use them , brutes can kill full black dragon stack if its retaliation is taken
anyways i use them very very rarely, its almost always better to split pallys or zealots + inquistors
|
|
DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
|
|
posted November 16, 2011 08:18 AM |
|
|
Quote:
I like elf sylvan the most, and hero Ossir...but i heard the Wyngall is real powerhouse.
Yes, because Ossir just focuses on Hunters, whereas Wyngaal increases initiative of already a high initiative faction and you can win games in round 1!
Retribution doesn't stack with Vamperism, but I think Elvin meant that peasants can be better than assassins.....and other tier 1's...
|
|
OrangeFury
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted November 16, 2011 11:05 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
I like elf sylvan the most, and hero Ossir...but i heard the Wyngall is real powerhouse.
Yes, because Ossir just focuses on Hunters, whereas Wyngaal increases initiative of already a high initiative faction and you can win games in round 1!
/quote]
This! But...
Im playing with mine friend via hamachi 1vs1 and hes playing undead our final fight is mostly around mid of month 2.And he has rly huge army because of racial skill revive, so im afraid to charge up :S
Any tips how to deal with expert sorcery & dark magic school(frenzy,puppet) i rly get rare that cleansing and because of his sorcery skill i cant keep up with his hero.
Mine build with Wyngaal is exp.attack/only tactic/, exp.luck/elfen luck/, this 2 skills i find core and then i focus on light/with all masters/ mby im wrong...
Thanks
|
|
DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
|
|
posted November 16, 2011 11:40 AM |
|
|
@OrangeFury:
You wanna get your troops up there ASAP! Dark magic is one that thrives on long battles....
So I would build Nature Wyngaal:
Expert Attack -> tactics + battle frenzy + nature's wrath (you want your troops to do big damage on their first attack from Wyngaals initiative boost)
Expert Luck -> Elven luck (for damage)
Expert Leadership -> Recruitment + Aura of swiftness
Expert Light -> Mass Haste
You want your troops to all get to the other side, with tactics and aura of swiftness your +6 speed troops will get there (blade dancers, unicorns, treants).
Then with attack and luck and leadership - damage will be high and quick.
Dark magic necro won't have many turns
|
|
OrangeFury
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted November 16, 2011 12:08 PM |
|
|
@DoubleDeck
Thanks for quick reply its rly helpfull and your skill build seems logic and strong i always used turtle strategy rly foolish
btw. 1.Do you buy at start one or two aditional heroes? I like to get even two to scout area fast and aditional army for fodder,easy creeping.
2.Do i need logistics /if yes what tree skills if any/
3.Should i put points on racial skill/i like to get imbue arrow & deadly shoot
3.1.How to use Rain of arrow skill effective / saw some pictures that players cast spells via that skill/
|
|
DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
|
|
posted November 16, 2011 12:59 PM |
|
|
Quote:
@DoubleDeck
Thanks for quick reply its rly helpfull and your skill build seems logic and strong i always used turtle strategy rly foolish
btw. 1.Do you buy at start one or two aditional heroes? I like to get even two to scout area fast and aditional army for fodder,easy creeping.
2.Do i need logistics /if yes what tree skills if any/
3.Should i put points on racial skill/i like to get imbue arrow & deadly shoot
3.1.How to use Rain of arrow skill effective / saw some pictures that players cast spells via that skill/
1. Depends on map difficulty, on heroic can't waste money, but on hard or lower, yes, get two extra heroes...
2. Only take logistics if going for nature ultimate or playing a large or huge map...
3. Yes, rain of arrows for Elven Luck. Deadeye and Imbue only if going for Ultimate, otherwise Imbue good with ballista and destructive spells (after druids channel spell power to main hero)
3.1 Rain of Arrow works well with Imbue arrow, so you cast imbue arrow, then the spell you want to attach to the attack, then rain of arrows (note: rain of arrows only effective if the enemy you are fighting is on your favoured enemy list otherwise won't work)
I never really use rain of arrows, always casting some mass light spell rather....
|
|
zaio-baio
Promising
Famous Hero
|
|
posted November 17, 2011 03:46 AM |
|
|
Imo you are doing this very wrong buddy.
1st - Elvin Luck doesnt worth it, retribution is more than 2x stronger ( +25% always, against 25% only if lucky hit)
Elvin luck requires Soldiers luck, which is useless in this matchup, remember indead are immune to mind spells, they cant be blinded.
So u need only magic resistance from luck tree
Light magic - mass haste, righteous, endurance or cleansing are what you should be looking for, Ethernal light or Storm Wind are very strong vs necro
Leave aura of swiftness out, better pick expert att + tactics + battle frenzy + power of haste(if u dont have haste in guid) or natures wrath. Tactics is very important, it replaces aura of swiftness.
I like leadership and retribution a lot, but its very hard to pull off without risk. Sylvan has no good heroes that can get retribution guaranteed and without screwing up other skill slots.
So att, luck, light as core build, its like 15-20 lvls. After u are rdy with that pick defence/enlightenment/lidership.
I dont like Ossir a lot, he forces you to pick all perks in luck skill, and thats very very bad. Your other option is not to pick them and then have them showing every time till the end of the game ...
So better pick wyngaal, he is weaker early, stronger late and starts with Attack/tactics . If u get Lidership fast u can try and go for retribution, otherwise avoid.
And Necro has the upper hand in this matchup, Sylvan creeps way too slow. Better choose magic or warmashine faction. Week 6 balista is still very strong and First aid tent dispells up to lvl 3 curses AND Torpor !
Also dont forget that Necro is a faction build to withstand a charge, so dont expect to own him easily.
Best faction vs necro is dungeon. Pick sinitar with destructive, enlightenment, sorcery and attack/tactics and he will have next to no chance.
|
|
OrangeFury
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted November 17, 2011 09:53 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Imo you are doing this very wrong buddy.
1st - Elvin Luck doesnt worth it, retribution is more than 2x stronger ( +25% always, against 25% only if lucky hit)
Elvin luck requires Soldiers luck, which is useless in this matchup, remember indead are immune to mind spells, they cant be blinded.
So u need only magic resistance from luck tree
Makes sense but as you mentioned its not easy to get and I might never get it in time for final battle. Elvens luck seems not worth then because soldier luck is useless, and resourcefulness is just bad(pick all things with 2nd hero to maximize hero movement.)
Can i avoid frenzy or puppet with Magic Resistance?
Quote:
Light magic - mass haste, righteous, endurance or cleansing are what you should be looking for, Ethernal light or Storm Wind are very strong vs necro
So expert light magic with Master of Wrath =>Storm Wind and Master of Blessings or Mater of Abjuration depending on what i get on mageguild.
Quote:
I dont like Ossir a lot, he forces you to pick all perks in luck skill, and thats very very bad. Your other option is not to pick them and then have them showing every time till the end of the game ...
So better pick wyngaal, he is weaker early, stronger late and starts with Attack/tactics . If u get Lidership fast u can try and go for retribution, otherwise avoid.
Also dont forget that Necro is a faction build to withstand a charge, so dont expect to own him easily.
Ok im going to stick with Wyngaal, but your last statement makes me worry :S But i have to move out fast so hero ability wont get wasted. But w/o aura of swifness im not sure can i get to other side of battlefield in 1st turn except with crystal dragons , pony wont get there same with wind dancer, pixie (is she allowed to go so reckless?),and not to mention trent (savage?)
[URL=http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/sylvanskillbuild.jpg/] [/URL]
Uploaded with [URL=http://imageshack.us]ImageShack.us[/URL]
Core skill set. And then i pick Nature's Wrath or power of speed(if theres no haste in mg). After that expert defence or advanced leadership(aura of swiftness!).
Thanks mutch zaio-baio and DoubleDeck for shareing your time and knowledge.
|
|
SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
|
|
posted November 17, 2011 12:29 PM |
|
Edited by SKPRIMUS at 12:33, 17 Nov 2011.
|
@OrangeFury: a lot depends on what level/how many skill points & what spells you are going to have when the big battle comes.
I would always prefer to get leadership with sylvan unless I have lion set. See also Sylvan Guide thread.
What DoubleD said is not too bad...just if there are that many skill points, then retribution is really good...you gotta remember too that battle commander gives hero +2 attack which can be very nice (esp. if normal level-ups do not make your attack stat go up!).
A minor trouble which you probably already highlighted is that Wyngaal starts with atk/tactics & hence choices need to be made regarding which skill to not have.
If enemy has tactics as well & you don't have high morale or aura, then you may be in a spot of bother.
Wyngaal start is not as good as Ossir start (unless you start with Wyngaal & have Ossir in tavern!)...but final result can also be dependent on how hard the early creeps are...also consider that people ban Wyngaal for a good reason (depending on final hero level & size of army)...luck & magic res vs necro is not bad vs necro & soldier's luck (if you get forced to pick it) does help in preventing retaliation to your unihorns because it's bugged when blind triggers vs undead (just doesnt blind them).
Imbue arrow also helps with early creeping. I don't know why you have deadeye shot highlighted .
Also if you read some of the sylvan tactics threads, don't even think about treants at all
@zaio-baio: yeah ok you might use brutes/conscripts vs dungeon just for more hitpoints in the army
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus
|
|
DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
|
|
posted November 17, 2011 04:49 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Can i avoid frenzy or puppet with Magic Resistance?
Yes.
I prefer elvin luck to retribution purely because morale might be lowered fighting necro.
I always think for a might faction fighting a magic faction is to get the hell up to the other side as soon as possible and make the battle swift....when it lasts too long magic triumphs....
Tactics and aura of swiftness add +2 to speed which could make all melee troops reach other side in turn one....with expert attack, luck and leadership....the damage will inevitably done quicker....
Who cares if frenzy or puppet is casted, by that time you have taken out half the enemy.....that's what Might in H5 is about, unlike H6 which makes battles longer...
If you are scared of frenzy and PM you could always go for expert defense so that the damage your friendly stack does to yourself is not as high..
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted November 17, 2011 05:30 PM |
|
|
Nothing beats a good charge with aura of swiftness Better have defense and enlightenment though, if the necro forces are too tough or have att/luck they might weaken you earlier than expected and you will run out of steam. Depending on necro stack size a full frontal assault may not be the best idea, it's all relative.
Quote:
@zaio-baio: not only does retribution not go together with vampirism, but no-one uses the haven lvl 1's to fight with
They should. They cut through magic factions' defense like a hot knife through butter. PS when I said vampirism and retribution I wasn't referring to those two stacking. Having retribution dmg early and THEN switch to vampirism with Ellaine's brutes is nothing short of awesome.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
|
|
posted November 17, 2011 07:26 PM |
|
Edited by SKPRIMUS at 19:27, 17 Nov 2011.
|
Nice to see you around Elvin.
I tend to agree with DoubleD about swift battle for sylvan vs necro tho. It's not a coincidence that some balancing mods reduce morale/luck/retribution.
Quote:
Quote:
@zaio-baio: not only does retribution not go together with vampirism, but no-one uses the haven lvl 1's to fight with
They should. They cut through magic factions' defense like a hot knife through butter. PS when I said vampirism and retribution I wasn't referring to those two stacking. Having retribution dmg early and THEN switch to vampirism with Ellaine's brutes is nothing short of awesome.
ofc I kinda knew what you meant but I now also hate the reduction in haven's damage if no retrib & if luck doesn't occur as well as no morale...still I don't see much point spending money on haven lvl 1's unless it's to accumulate un-upgraded peasants with secondary Ellaine for longer games [money better spent elsewhere like training pallys & split pally/inquisitor/zealot stacks on main hero]... for short games yeah one will have to use them but I just hate short games 4wks or less.
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted November 17, 2011 07:45 PM |
|
|
I don't even like Ellaine, just saying
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
|
|
