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| Thread: School shooting in California |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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MacMasterMC
Known Hero
Resurrected Loreweaver
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posted April 04, 2012 08:25 PM |
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Of course the formal education was one way to indoctrinate the young people and turn them into "proper citizens" as far as the regime was concerned but other than that, the schools were what they were supposed to be - a place to learn things necessary for your future life (and the quality of the education itself was at least 10 times better than it is now). We don't have shootings in our schools (yet) but the institution has lost tons of its authority since the "commies" gave up the power some 23 years ago and currently it's a shadow of its formal self in the best cases and an animated corpse in the worst. And yeah, we have stuff like some spoiled brat beating to coma his school-mate because the latter "didn't behave properly in his presence" for instance - something unthinkable a while back.
In short, the state certainly can boost the authority of the school and the education in general a huge bit, but I suppose not in every society.
The problem with authoritarianism to any degree is that you don't enable those whom you rule/govern/parent over the option of learning why you should do things in a moral way. It's simply do it or suffer the consequences. The bully felt it was okay to put another student into a coma for not behaving properly? Obviously once the major controls were released, the backlash of that behavior which socially had been a learned response was still continuing.
It may be far harder to do in terms of effort and time, but it will always yield far better results to teach the why and how of what is right and wrong, from simply an ethical, considerate standpoint, to develop people who are conscientious, than it is to do so in a way with compulsion or force. The bully was only really behaving in a way that, socially, had been the norm for a good long time. It is absolutely unacceptable, and is quite wrong. But I can just see the parent feeling, if not saying, that this was how things work in their society, and being a bit more understanding, and possibly lenient, instead of teaching why these things are bad beyond a negative consequence after the fact.
Freedom to choose one's own behavior, no matter how strict the consequences, usually cannot hold a candle to really teaching the understanding behind why and why not things happen and the effects they have on others and yourself. Short of shock collars and other truly barbaric means of direct constant force, there is no better way than to let people learn how and why and govern themselves when they know truly what happens when they act. The full scope of what occurs, not just the negative, but the positive too! Most children, and even adults who are not bitter (and even some of those!) do not wish to hurt others, and want to help other people, even if they do not feel sufficiently empowered or motivated to do so.
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...a shimmer in the woods, with
an expectant feel to the air...
...a figure takes shape...
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 04, 2012 08:47 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 20:49, 04 Apr 2012.
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The problem however is not with those who behave well and don't hurt the others, they are obviously not an issue. Take them aside and only the "bad" part remains and it's rather shallow to say that they (and obviously those around them) have to learn that every action in a social environment has a consequence (including moral) by doing it. Morals have little to do with the matter as obviously those who rely on beating and shooting in school to deliver their message to their victims are never going to be considered the good guys in any (even somewhat) healthy society. The penalties are not - and should not be - only instruments of the dictatorships. The entire law system - which is one of the fundamental parts of the society, even the most democratic one - is based on the concept of the penalty if you behave in a socially unacceptable manner. Apparently those who want to be in school and don't misbehave (read - don't beat or shoot other people, in the context of the topic) are not those who should be penalized and I don't see a problem with getting the rest in line with, if necessary, some more harsh measures, including applying some pressure on their parents to educate their child that it's not considered acceptable to do what he/she does.
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MacMasterMC
Known Hero
Resurrected Loreweaver
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posted April 04, 2012 09:05 PM |
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It is truly rare that you can find someone who is so despicably evil that there is no hope for their concern for others unless they have been taught/left to their own devices/raised that way, etc. Most of the time a bully, abuser, et al., have some kind of sore/wound/misunderstanding. The truly evil ones most people think of are, when we honestly look at them, either suffering some kind of mental/physical/emotional/spiritual anguish or pain that they cannot handle, or are simply unaware/uneducated/blind to the effects of what they do, or perhaps that there are better reasons NOT to do the harmful things they are doing. It is true that it seems there are those who are beyond hope, but that is just cynicism and politics rearing their dual-headed vengeance.
Before we can heal, we have to understand, and then we can treat/assist with whatever the issues and problems may be.
As a group, humanity as a whole is far too often far too ready to simply dismiss others for even slight reasons. How much easier is it when forgiveness, and mercy need be applied?
I mentioned before the responsibility of people in the community. And it is true that some are beyond help. But those generally are those who are not willing to be helped, as in they prevent others from helping them. Generally speaking, most people who are suffering would be incredibly grateful for help, without judgement, just mercy.
Humans can be incredibly unforgiving...
But each of us can be incredibly merciful...
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...a shimmer in the woods, with
an expectant feel to the air...
...a figure takes shape...
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted April 04, 2012 10:33 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 22:36, 04 Apr 2012.
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Quote:
It is truly rare that you can find someone who is so despicably evil that there is no hope for their concern for others unless they have been taught/left to their own devices/raised that way, etc.
I dont believe in GOOD and EVIL but you can find many people who would do the "Unthinkable" and there is truly no hope for them.
Take psycopaths or sociopaths,they are indeed beyond hope.
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Most of the time a bully, abuser, et al., have some kind of sore/wound/misunderstanding."
I disagree.Bullies are emotional parasites.They draw their "Self esteem" and daily dopamine intakes by insulting,beating etc, others.The reason they do this is ´,imo, not because they are wounded but because they have an underdeveloped character.
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Before we can heal, we have to understand, and then we can treat/assist with whatever the issues and problems may be.
True,but whats the point?You cannot assist in family matters,you cannot help people with social problems,you cannot treat somebody who truly thinks he/she is completely right and so on...
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I mentioned before the responsibility of people in the community. And it is true that some are beyond help. But those generally are those who are not willing to be helped, as in they prevent others from helping them. Generally speaking, most people who are suffering would be incredibly grateful for help, without judgement, just mercy.
This is extremely ignorant.Those beyond help have other reasons for what they do and not because "They are not willing".
Those "Suffereing" from being a bully do not view themselves as suffering.In a nutshell,they think they are "Cool" because the community gives positive stimulus for that action or does not care at all.
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Humans can be incredibly unforgiving...
But each of us can be incredibly merciful...
I dont believe that because the experience I have tells me completely other things in regards to morals.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 05, 2012 12:23 AM |
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Bully etc The teacher does not hit the students etc problem ok! Did you know in 2030, compulsory treatment plant? The rush to make the children, so the teacher does not make, and to inform children of compulsory treatment facility, if do not know what mean education.  Problem!
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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