|
| Thread: The 1st level of the ability/spell does more than the 2nd level??? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
|
Sagi
Tavern Dweller
|
posted April 11, 2012 02:04 PM |
|
|
The 1st level of the ability/spell does more than the 2nd level???
What the hell is this?
[url]http://i.imgur.com/g85Qy.jpg[/url]
[url]http://i.imgur.com/gjGp9.jpg[/url]
[url]http://i.imgur.com/Xlc6U.jpg[/url]
[url]http://i.imgur.com/Fs98f.jpg[/url]
The 1st level of the ability/spell does more than the 2nd level and the 2nd level even costs more. What the hell?
Is this only textual problem or does it really work as it says it does (where the 1st one is stronger and costs less)?
|
|
adriancat
Famous Hero
Protector Of The Peace
|
posted April 11, 2012 02:07 PM |
|
|
|
Indeed,the first one is stronger and cost less,but it doesn't affect all the creatures like the second one.The second one is a "Mass" and affects all your creatures in case of a buff (e.g. Heal,Mass) and all enemy creatures in the case of a debuff (e.g. Weakness,Mass).I hope you understand.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted April 11, 2012 02:09 PM |
|
|
Of course, mass spells are weaker than the basic version for balance purposes. In some cases it is a better option to use the basic spell for added benefit, after all it affects only one target.
That said some spells such as mass weakness/despair/agony plain suck and could use a boost.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
|
|
posted April 11, 2012 03:37 PM |
|
|
Yeah, this was where Heroes V was very imbalanced regarding mass spells (being the same as the singular spell).
At least Heroes VI is balanced in this regard.
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted April 11, 2012 04:35 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Yeah, this was where Heroes V was very imbalanced regarding mass spells (being the same as the singular spell).
At least Heroes VI is balanced in this regard.
Actually I disagree. I don't think the problem was mass spells doing the same as singular spells, the problem was that they did the same and used less Initiative to cast.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
Sagi
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted April 11, 2012 04:54 PM |
|
|
Well, thank you all for clerifying this.
Even though I still keep finding more differences like this and they are very confusing to me.
For instance...
The Specter is the higher level unit, right?
|
|
Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
|
|
posted April 11, 2012 04:58 PM |
|
|
|
There are 23 more Ghosts than Spectres, hence the difference.
|
|
Sagi
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted April 11, 2012 06:01 PM |
|
|
Again, thank you for clarifiying this!
And I thought I knew the Heroes Univerese... lol
It seems as if they have made HoM&MVI (M&MHVI) 'casual gamer' friendly, and yet It is very confusing at times.
I guess I will delve into the Heroes6 wiki a bit more.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted April 11, 2012 06:33 PM |
|
|
Better yet try the fan manual 
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
|
|
posted April 12, 2012 08:07 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Yeah, this was where Heroes V was very imbalanced regarding mass spells (being the same as the singular spell).
At least Heroes VI is balanced in this regard.
Actually I disagree. I don't think the problem was mass spells doing the same as singular spells, the problem was that they did the same and used less Initiative to cast.
Yes of course, 50% less initiative to cast on next turn was a big benefit, but having all troops get the same bonus was just not fair! Haste/Righteous Might/Endurance and Slow/Confusion were just game breakers!
Now at least with Heroes only allowed to go once per round and mass spells being less powerful than single spells, makes a big improvement to this area re. balancing (a positive to Heroes VI).
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted April 12, 2012 08:14 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Yeah, this was where Heroes V was very imbalanced regarding mass spells (being the same as the singular spell).
At least Heroes VI is balanced in this regard.
Actually I disagree. I don't think the problem was mass spells doing the same as singular spells, the problem was that they did the same and used less Initiative to cast.
Yes of course, 50% less initiative to cast on next turn was a big benefit, but having all troops get the same bonus was just not fair! Haste/Righteous Might/Endurance and Slow/Confusion were just game breakers!
Now at least with Heroes only allowed to go once per round and mass spells being less powerful than single spells, makes a big improvement to this area re. balancing (a positive to Heroes VI).
Well I guess that's a matter of taste, but I simply don't agree with that. I think Mass Spells should be as good as single target spell, but the cost should be substantial more, not just in mana (which to some factions is a virtually unlimited source), but also in other things, like using extra ATB or whatever (but oh no, they ditched that  ).
Another blatant mistake of H5 was letting opposite spells overrule instead of cancel each other. It was clearly imbalanced that casting Mass Haste after opponent cast Mass Slow not only removed the Slow, but also added the full effect of the Haste. That's two mass spells in one, lol.
Personally, I would have gone another way to tweak it. I would instead of the somewhat arbitrary 'Mass' effect have made it an Area Of Effect, with the size of the AOE depending on some Hero attribute. That would imo. have made for a more balanced feature - and with additional changes as mentioned above.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
|
posted April 12, 2012 09:14 AM |
|
|
Aoe mass spells feel.. meh. I can forgive mass dispel for obvious reasons but having a mass haste/inner fire/stoneskin trigger on all units feels like HELL YEAH!
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
|
|
posted April 12, 2012 09:34 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Aoe mass spells feel.. meh. I can forgive mass dispel for obvious reasons but having a mass haste/inner fire/stoneskin trigger on all units feels like HELL YEAH!
That doesn't make it more balanced.
And if you make the area size depend on hero attributes, you might well have powerful mages being able to affect whole battlefield.
____________
What will happen now?
|
|
DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
|
|
posted April 12, 2012 11:50 AM |
|
|
In my opinion, that would make mass spells very unpopular and no-one would really go for them....
|
|
Sagi
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted April 12, 2012 12:03 PM |
|
Edited by Sagi at 12:08, 12 Apr 2012.
|
Hey, I know I already said "Thanks" to Zenofex, but When I mouse over a spell like in the gif above... I would like to see it's power, not it's end result, the end result should be while it is armed with the mouse and when you mouse over a target then it should tell you the end result, in the stats card/window I want to see the power (I know I am repeating my self).
It is just so confusing, and thus annoying.
So to finally clarify this one, does the Specter have a healing spell greater than the Ghost's healing spell?
P.S.
To the true fans of the Heroes universe, does "M&M-H6" not annoy you more than ever?
|
|
Zenithale
Promising
Famous Hero
Zen Mind
|
|
posted April 12, 2012 02:57 PM |
|
|
Quote:
So to finally clarify this one, does the Specter have a healing spell greater than the Ghost's healing spell?
30 specters give 71 Health (+bonus from living creatures) --> 1 Specter gives ~2.37 Health (+bonus from living creatures)
53 ghosts give 126 Health (+bonus from living creatures) --> 1 Ghost gives ~2.38 Health (+bonus from living creatures)
Thus their healing power is the same.
|
|
fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted April 13, 2012 02:47 PM |
|
|
|
besides modding the mana cost, I thought that another possible way is to modify the skillwheel. mass spells should be rank 2 or 3 perks (just make sure you can't pick more than one mass spell perk for each magic) that way it is impossible to have all the mass spells.
|
|
Sagi
Tavern Dweller
|
|
posted April 15, 2012 07:54 PM |
|
|
OK, so I know the first two were mass effects, fine.
The second one with the Ghosts and Specters, it does not justify it still.
Now, WTF is this:
|
|
Vindicator
Supreme Hero
Right Back Extraordinaire
|
|
posted April 15, 2012 08:04 PM |
|
|
I'm guessing it's simply in addition to the first one, as in another 2 leadership, but I'm not sure.
____________
|
|
Valen-Teen
Famous Hero
UFOlolOgist
|
|
posted April 15, 2012 08:46 PM |
|
|
+2 from 1 lvl +2 from 2 lvl = +4 leadership points 
____________
Our hopes for Heroes VIII!
|
|
|
|
