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| Thread: Help Plz: Pirate's Daughter, Scenario 1 | |
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Artaxerxes333
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 15, 2012 06:28 PM |
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Help Plz: Pirate's Daughter, Scenario 1
Hello. I have already consulted several walkthrough-guides and I am quite the experienced HoMM 3 (not 4) player, but I have still not managed to master the first scenario of a Pirate's Daughter. I know it's called the toughest in the game. But how can it be 'toughest'? To me, it's bloody impossible. I am playing on Novice (yup, hate to admit, but I am). And I still get blown literally out of the water.
Here's how I play:
- I get Tawni and Pete off the island quickly - I send a bandit to pick up the hat while they claim the mine, and then we're all off by day 2 or something
- I ignore all the flotsam and later have a single pirate scour the seas for it (plus then the dumb Green don't get their hands on the pretty Feral Vixen)
I'm pretty sure I'm doing this alright. Landing on the coast, I have 2 different tactics. I either take the Asylum town or go right for the green Barbarian town to the east. This latter tactic seems to work the best. If I take the Asylum first, I have to replenish my losses and by then Green have built up their place with Cyclops and stuff. But if I take the Barb first, it's no big deal and I can easily take the Asylum later.
Either way, then the problems kick in:
The Green start attacking - within less than a week - through the two-way portal. Their attacking armies are always larger than my entire force and they have a new one of improved size within 3-4 days (which, surprisingly, I have not). I usually repulse the first 2 attacks on account of the AI's lack of intelligence. But around the 3rd attack, they bring up the Thunderbirds and I'm toast. In lucky attempts, I have reached Hydras or Thunderbirds myself by then, but I'll only have one of them (not both), and always too few to decide the battle. Besides the rest of my army will be worn down to 7 bandits and 3 harpies by then, so game's practically over.
I have no idea how to get beyond this point. I have tried splitting Tawni and Pete up, to go conquering more resources in the east - but then the defending armies are overwhelmed even easier (besides, tho I'm running out of resources, my towns are running out of recruits even faster, so even a succesful resource-gathering project wouldn't remedy the situation much). I have also tried abandoning the defense altogether. In that instance, I can capture the next (unclaimed) Barbarian town on the coast, but it is utterly undeveloped and in the meantime, Green will have already take my Asylum and be on their way to the earlier Barb town with an force I won't be able to stop.
The Green attacks seem to come in endless succession - no matter how many I defeat, more appear. And in the meantime, I'm unable to replenish my own (grievous) losses and unable to build up my towns as quickly as Green. I have no idea how I'm going to win this scenario without cheats?
Btw. As a H3 rather than H4 player by heart, I have noticed that I'm not always mindful enough of using my heroes - y'know, being used to having them on the sidelines and all. But I've gotten Tawni to GM in Combat and Pete to Combat-something-or-other. And, yes, they help in those early battles, when I'm outnumbered but not overwhelmed. But by the time the Thunderbirds start spawning like rats, I still can't handle the pressure.
EDIT: the nearest thing I have gotten to an army was 7-8 Cyclops, 25 Medusas, 25 Harpies and some lvl 1 clutter. Without lvl 4 creatures. I could technically capture the Blue Keymaster Tent and go to sea again with this, but it's obviously not enough to win the campaign. And staying with the army in the countryside meant confronting Thunderbirds en masse ;(
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Artaxerxes333
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 15, 2012 11:24 PM |
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Well, typical. After trying for years I actually beat the scenario hours after asking for help. But it really only happened because the Green AI foolishly sent all its armies through the one-way portal next to Frigiston, thus marooning them on a remote island. They then spent the rest of the game clearing up inconsequential islands so I could build up and wipe them off the face of the earth.
Given that I was still playing as novice, beating the scenario was a piece of cake, as soon as I was given a little month to build up an army of Black Dragons and Thunderbirds.
But I'm still unaware of how to beat this scenario - at any difficulty level - in those 98% of times when Green just throws everything they've got at you. Because then my skills are not enough to put up a worthy barricade.
Now I'll choose a higher difficulty, run around a bit in scenario 1 (leveling up and stealing that purple shield), before typing nwcvalhalla (I mean, I DID beat it - on novice, I know) and hopefully go on to more realistic adventures 
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gnollking
Supreme Hero
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posted July 15, 2012 11:47 PM |
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Nice that you actually managed to complete the map, me myself have not been able to do that once, on any difficulty.. Just like you, I truly belong in Erathia, but I've played HoMM 4 quite a lot as well, and this campaign is truly the toughest one.
But, there's one thing you should know about the Heroes 4 section of Heroes Community, it is that no one is actively here  . As far as I know there isn't a single "expert" in this game here, unlike there are in H3 and H5. This place (the Land of Axeoth) is dead. The game is dead in the internet, although people who understand the greatness of this game still play it. People rarely post here, and when they do, there's a 95% chance no one replies to their post.
@Edit, This thread inspired me to play Heroes 4 all night long 
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted July 16, 2012 12:36 AM |
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Well, the first lesson is stealth. Later, you will find free castle.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Artaxerxes333
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 16, 2012 02:42 PM |
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Well that's really sad. I was always a H3 lover, but over the years, H4 has grown on me. It disappointed me at first: I liked H3 because there were LOTS and LOTS of strange creatures and towns. H4 felt poor in comparison. And it was difficult to play, cos' you couldn't just geet Town Portal and hop from friendly town to friendly town, so you actually had to divide your forces and think and stuff. At age 12, that turned me off the game after a while
But H4 has great visuals and all the troops are really interesting and the storylines (Tawni escpecially - I've cheated thru the campaign before and read the storyline) are wonderful. Also, there's a real sense of nostalgia about it now, of course, because I only played it for about a year around 2002 or whenever it was released, and then forgot about it. So now it's like 2002 in a bottle
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Gauldoth_IV
Adventuring Hero
nobody
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posted July 16, 2012 03:17 PM |
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@Artaxer: I got the same experience about that - at first, when H4 just came out, I was really don't like the change, I play the H3 of series at first, then have a little back taste to the H2, so at the first time I got into the H4, I was bit confused, and when my first try of H4 with the first death of my little Hero(yeah little LV 1 hero), the unused feeling made me dislike the game once, I can tell anybody the short part of the H4 that why I don't like it, even the War frog(that Time I thought this made the map seem somehow darker than H3), and the thought H3 is the best was branded in the deep of my mind, even now I still think H3 is the best of the series...
And then Time changed, when I began to play H4 with the Campaigns, take a deep understand of the game, and also get the Campaign Editor, I have totally fell into the world of H4, the big changes which make me uncomfortable last time, now are most points attract me. Even though as I say H3 is the best of the series still, but in my opinion, H4 might be the most fun in the whole series. A bit shame it's the last heroes of the NWC, it should be much better,if...
but we know the story...(thanks 3DO, you brought a great series to the Tomb. )
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted July 16, 2012 11:57 PM |
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No, the JVC has said that the H4 will be no better than the H3, but unique. It is not difficult, why did H3, which had to get out of the castle, etc.. Said to be a tough player. But H4 stealth is the same thing. Let it be. I am the WoG and H4 -world.
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Artaxerxes333
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 17, 2012 12:04 AM |
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Quote:
Even though as I say H3 is the best of the series still, but in my opinion, H4 might be the most fun in the whole series. A bit shame it's the last heroes of the NWC, it should be much better,if...
but we know the story...(thanks 3DO, you brought a great series to the Tomb.)
You're quite right. It saddens me that Axeoth and all that it implied (both storyline-wise and gameplay-wise) was so utterly abandoned. Possibly the reason it took me so long to get into H4 was because I'm a staunch Dungeon player and therefore I couldn't imagine any other way to start H4 than by playing the Chaos campaign. And as you can see by this thread, it has taken me 10 years to get through scenario 1, so it's kind of a slow start
(I also recall missing the Random Map Generator of H3)
But looking back, H4 was really quite wonderful. I keep coming back to the storylines. They were getting quite good at that. H3 SoD and Chronicles had quite moving storylines and by H4 (particularly Emilia and Tawni) they were almost great literature. Now, to me, Tawni and Emilia seem like lost friends who disappeared a long time ago, cos' we'll never know what was supposed to happen to them after the campaigns.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted July 17, 2012 12:24 AM |
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Yes!
Dungeon? Do you remember the Helm of Chaos? The story develops.. and the old engine would not be able 
The same game!
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Gauldoth_IV
Adventuring Hero
nobody
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posted July 17, 2012 03:47 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Even though as I say H3 is the best of the series still, but in my opinion, H4 might be the most fun in the whole series. A bit shame it's the last heroes of the NWC, it should be much better,if...
but we know the story...(thanks 3DO, you brought a great series to the Tomb.)
You're quite right. It saddens me that Axeoth and all that it implied (both storyline-wise and gameplay-wise) was so utterly abandoned. Possibly the reason it took me so long to get into H4 was because I'm a staunch Dungeon player and therefore I couldn't imagine any other way to start H4 than by playing the Chaos campaign. And as you can see by this thread, it has taken me 10 years to get through scenario 1, so it's kind of a slow start
(I also recall missing the Random Map Generator of H3)
But looking back, H4 was really quite wonderful. I keep coming back to the storylines. They were getting quite good at that. H3 SoD and Chronicles had quite moving storylines and by H4 (particularly Emilia and Tawni) they were almost great literature. Now, to me, Tawni and Emilia seem like lost friends who disappeared a long time ago, cos' we'll never know what was supposed to happen to them after the campaigns.
Same again ,I like the Dungeon in H3 as well(most like Medusa,Evil eyes, red/black Dragons), so when I play H4 in first time, I also choose the chaos for first choice in a single scenario map(that time I was too young to face the big amount of English words in Campaign):the first time I try the new feature of H4 - moving neutral creature, and my first Hero of H4 was die because of that,but when I've played all the align and start the Campaign, I followed order of the campaigns, which I luckly avoid to get stuck in the toughest scenario 1.
And I most like the Gauldoth's Journey, for first time(at least to me), Undead is not a badass/valian, just stay in netrual.I think it has deepest philosophical depth.But still all of Original Campaigns are great, which made me create 6 characters in IWD2 with them(Lysander, Waejak, Gauldoth,Emilia,Tawni,Elwin)immediately after I finish all the campaigns...
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Where is my signature?
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Bones_xa
Known Hero
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posted August 23, 2012 06:55 PM |
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Playing these campaigns on novice and other low difficulty levels, I think actually make it harder.
Why? Because what the difficulty levels mainly do is effect the number (stack size) of neutral creatures on the map. As far as I know, the AI is not effected or at least very little.
So what this does is: if the neutral creatures are weaker, it makes it much easier to defeat these groups and to expand and makes the game faster. However, for the AI, it can also defeat these groups easy, which as a result, the AI can expand very quickly, get lots of artifacts and resources, and become very powerful, having very large armies because there is nothing that can oppose him.
This makes the AI much more of a problem, in my experience.
The first time I ever did scenario 1 of the pirate's daughter, I did it on the normal setting, and it was very hard. There was no way I could beat the AI and no way I could hold the two towns (chaos and barb town) that you first encounter. I had to keep the best army I could and hang out at sea (they couldn't catch me because of my speed at sea), and make sneak attacks on the towns required to complete this map.
From my memory, all that you need to do to win is capture 2 or 3 certain towns and the map is won. So thats what I did the first time, no way did I actually defeat the AI's army.
After doing all the campaigns, I tried them on again on impossible. The pirates daughter campaign as much easier in my experience on impossible. It was a while ago but I think I was able to hold the barb town right to the end, or at least for a good amount of time anyway.
Taking the barb town first is definitely the way to go. At the beginning of the game, you should pretty much go right for it with the best army you can get together as fast as possible. All the other stuff in the sea can be picked up by someone else.
So yeah. Playing on the hardest setting generally makes the game easier in my opinion, but it takes longer. Heroes 4 is different than Heroes 3. I actually like it better.
There are a few scenario 1 campaign maps that are very difficult on the impossible setting, most notable are the barb campaign with Waerjak, and Alita's campaign in the gathering storm, which many have talked about on this forum.
On the normal or novice setting however, other maps can be very difficult. In Alita's campaign in the gathering storm, the first time I did it was on normal, and I could not beat the scenario (I think its the second one) where you have to eliminate the one side to get through. They were too strong and whenever I'd have them they would retreat to the allied town that I couldn't get to. Thats the only map I had to use a cheat on to get past the first time I played them. On impossible setting however, this map was a breeze, because the large size of the neutral stacks slowed down the AI growth.
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Thunder_Titus
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
Inventor
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posted August 30, 2012 02:15 AM |
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I would use these three cheats:
1. Nwcfafnir gives 20 black dragons
2. Nwccronus gives 20 titans
3. Be Hermes gives infinity movement( lose all movement if boarding or leaving ship)
Use the cheats if you dare
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MengTzu
Hired Hero
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posted October 17, 2012 07:08 AM |
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Isn't it better to just nwcares every battle? =D
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Karmakeld
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted November 18, 2012 10:48 AM |
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Quote:
Playing these campaigns on novice and other low difficulty levels, I think actually make it harder.
Quote:
Why? Because what the difficulty levels mainly do is effect the number (stack size) of neutral creatures on the map. As far as I know, the AI is not effected or at least very little.
So what this does is: if the neutral creatures are weaker, it makes it much easier to defeat these groups and to expand and makes the game faster. However, for the AI, it can also defeat these groups easy, which as a result, the AI can expand very quickly, get lots of artifacts and resources, and become very powerful, having very large armies because there is nothing that can oppose him.
This makes the AI much more of a problem, in my experience.
Well that's one way to look at it, but the AI do have less combat options on lower levels. They shouldn't build as often as they would on higher levels, and in general will not act as logical as on higher levels. Atleast that's what I read several places. Beside, as you mention, you also increase the amount of wandering monster you'd encounter yourself
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Bones_xa
Known Hero
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posted December 04, 2012 07:08 PM |
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Edited by Bones_xa at 19:12, 04 Dec 2012.
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Well that's one way to look at it, but the AI do have less combat options on lower levels. They shouldn't build as often as they would on higher levels, and in general will not act as logical as on higher levels. Atleast that's what I read several places. Beside, as you mention, you also increase the amount of wandering monster you'd encounter yourself
I don't think it matters much that the AI will have more combat options and build more on harder levels. What the AI will do on the harder levels is attack those strong neutral stacks and lose lots of troops and often times its whole army/heroes slowing him down by a huge amount.
The player however can attack those neutral stacks much more intelligently and lose much fewer if any at all. As time goes on, these neutral stacks just get stronger and stronger.
Also wandering monsters don't join you in heroes 4 like they do in heroes 3; pretty much they only join you if you have charm or diplomacy and your numbers are superior, which mostly on hardest difficulty levels will likely be not the neutral stacks from the beginning of the game but ones that spawn from monthly creations.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted December 04, 2012 07:33 PM |
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It's common knowledge that the impossible setting is often easier, because it hinders the AI more than the human player. AI playing style is horrible on all settings, its only chance is a bad playing human, but the more time you give the human, the more likely it is, that the human will win. Impossible setting gives the human more time. Only on maps, where you can get trapped in truly impossible fights, or timed maps, may the impossible setting make the game harder or even unbeatable.
@Bones
A lot of the things you've written in this thread actually reminds me why I've always thought Heroes 4 to be a different sequel to Heroes 2, rather than a sequel to Heroes 3. Many of the things in Heroes 2, which isn't included in Heroes 3, is included in Heroes 4. I can't name anything in Heroes 4, which is in Heroes 3, but not in Heroes 2. Apart from some monsters obviously.
I can't help, but wonder, if Heroes 4 was presented as a different sequel to Heroes 2, not Heroes 3, if maybe not it'd have had more success. Especially if the two games had been introduced around the same time, and with a large emphasize on how different these two games were from each other.
Edit: It's a long time ago I completed some of the campaigns. I didn't find the Pirates daughter to be difficult, but maybe I was just lucky. However I did grow bored with it and after a couple of maps, I simply abandoned it.
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Living time backwards
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Bones_xa
Known Hero
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posted December 06, 2012 10:32 PM |
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Quote:
It's common knowledge that the impossible setting is often easier, because it hinders the AI more than the human player. AI playing style is horrible on all settings, its only chance is a bad playing human, but the more time you give the human, the more likely it is, that the human will win. Impossible setting gives the human more time. Only on maps, where you can get trapped in truly impossible fights, or timed maps, may the impossible setting make the game harder or even unbeatable.
I wouldn't agree to say that it is "common knowledge"; I don't see this being talked about much and often when players ask for help about certain campaigns/scenarios I don't recall that they mention the difficulty settings much.
And of course as you say, it is not an absolute rule because it is depending on the map; there may be time limits or resource/area restrictions. Take for example the first scenario of Waerjak's campaign which is the most difficult on the impossible setting.
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Delloman
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 13, 2012 06:40 PM |
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Hi guys!
First time writing here. I've been a huge fan of heroes IV for many years and now i decided to replay the campaigns on champion level. And for me it is extremely difficult to complete the first scenario of the might campaign. The pirates near the shipyard and on the island are just too many. Can someone give me tips how to beat them? And sorry for the offtopic!
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Da_venom
Hired Hero
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posted December 14, 2012 12:45 PM |
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This campaign is real easy
anyway the first scenario you have to do it like this
Split 1 bandit from your starting army and let him run to the seamanhat
(pirates and stuff are level 1 so the bandit can just walk past them without being afraid of having to be attacked)
the rest of the army goes in the boat and then moves close to the chokepoint where the 2 pirates cannot atttack u and the bandit can come to enter the ship
HOWEVER do not let the bandit enter the ship! just go to the army screen give tawni or peter the seamanhat
now go pick up some loot(to the left) and go the island where u can recruit bandits do so and then IMMEDIATLY go north
land skip the chaos town go directly to the green barbarian town
having done this in a fast amount of time
your army of 75 bandits+75 pirates and your 2 heroes will be able to kill his heroes(since they will retreat to the town)
and for damage soaking try to let your heroes to attack first and then let the rest attack (if possible) if not it also fine
In my game (3 days ago)
there was 1 green hero with 7 centaurs and 20 beserkers
and other stack with 2 heroes 15 beserkers and 15 centaurs
and in the town there were like 4 beserkers
easy enough to kill
as soon as u got that town
get harpies if u can and if you were slow and he managed to get nomads go instantly for cyclopses
save alll money for that and resources
scout with bandits(to get free stuff near level 1 stacks)
and scout the map on which u want to fight first
and soon as u get like 6-8 cyclopses start fighting neutral stack and level up tawni! (i stopped leveling peter after level 8 giving him undead magic mainly for poison so he can beat a town on his own in second level) now get your chaos town and rush for medusa and nightmares
your army should be consisting of
1. cyclops (front row)
2. medusa back row
3. tawni next to the cyclops front row
4. harpy front row
5. the rest 1 big stack of nightmares (the highest u can have
6, 1stack of nightmares(so 1 nightmare
7. 1 stack of nightmares
now with kill everything in sight
the way to do it is
cyclops attack medusa attack
the 2 nightmares stacks use terror on the most 2 left stacks
with the third nightmare stack u WAIT until next turn
with this u can kill almost any army
rush to third town get it
sneak past monster and rush to the 4th town
it is VITAL to get breeding pens asap and get a MASSIVE amount of cyclopses
when you have like 40~60 cyclopses
10~20 thunderbirds
3_5 black dragons
1 nightmare stack
50+ medusas
tawni
go south with the boat and kill blue go up again unlock the purple tent and cream green
this was a very easy campaign to be honest
as for leveling up tawni
i would suggest scouting+tacics(making her field marshal and making sure that every unit comes first during battle(due to tactics skill)
I would also give her combat
+chaos magic
the lat choice is up to you
but personal preferences of me would be
nobility (since chaos is very slow on unit production so giving just that extra bit of extra force will help in long run)
Nature magic (for quicksand) helps during the rest of the campaign
things i wouldn't recommend is death magic(it the least worst thought since u can get spells for it easy
life/order magic is pure waste since there are hardly shrines or w/e to even get spells in that particular magic school
for any help just pm me or post here
this campaign is a breeze (on a side note i only play on impossible so )
i think my advice is pretty good
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