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| Thread: Army battles |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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pyromancer
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 14, 2002 04:14 PM |
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Army battles
here is the new combat system:
[real damage]=[monster damage] * [attack] / [defence]
attack - melee (or ranged by ranged attacks) attack value of the attacker
defence - melee or ranged defence value of the defender
the retalitation is in the same time as the attack (except for the first strike skill). by ranged attacks - the two ranged armies are attacking at the same time (except for the ranged first strike)
if a mage (monster or a hero) casts damage spell on a ranged army, the army will answer with ranged attack. but if a mage is attacked by archer, the mage will not make a magic attack (there will be no retalitation)
morale - more damage and speed
luck - less damage
the morale will increse the speed and the damage of the army (there is no more a second attack by high morale). luck will decrease the damage taken by the *lucky* monster.
the speed value determinates the order in which the armies will attack. the movement - how long can they walk. the terrain changes both the speed and movement.
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thorman
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 14, 2002 06:52 PM |
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Where did you get the info on the retaliation for spells?
A mage(hero) casting armagedon could end getting attacked by up to 7 units at the same time?
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Syllogism
Adventuring Hero
Gazebo Slayer
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posted March 14, 2002 10:39 PM |
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I believe only direct damage spells can be retaliated. The info is, of course, from the Russian site
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Darion
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted March 14, 2002 10:40 PM |
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No.. I am guessing that the interpretation was taken wrong. From all the previews I have seen, spells cast by heroes are the only way to attack without taking damage from ranged creatures in retaliation (that is the whole purpose of chaos magic) However, if a creature such as a mage or genie casts an offensive spell (i.e. frost bolt) then the single creature that was attacked will retaliate.
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Syllogism
Adventuring Hero
Gazebo Slayer
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posted March 14, 2002 10:57 PM |
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Quote:
No.. I am guessing that the interpretation was taken wrong. From all the previews I have seen, spells cast by heroes are the only way to attack without taking damage from ranged creatures in retaliation (that is the whole purpose of chaos magic) However, if a creature such as a mage or genie casts an offensive spell (i.e. frost bolt) then the single creature that was attacked will retaliate.
According to heroes.ag.ru, you are wrong.
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pyromancer
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 16, 2002 12:38 PM |
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i have made some calculations for the deferent level monsters
also:
level 4 (one week population - 2 angels, 1 dragon, 3 thunderbirds...) with one attack can kill - 2 level 3 monsters, 7 level 2 monsters
level 3 (one week population - 3 vampires, 4 nagas...) with tree attacks can kill 1 level 4 monsters (averege health 220, 32 defence), with one attack can kill one level 3 monster (avr. health 81, 22 defence), 4 level 2 monsters (avr. health 31, 15 defence).
it seems that is not reasonable to attack higher level monsters, only the same or lower. 4 nagas can do only 60 dam to a titan, or 57 to an angel.
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Xenophanes
Promising
Famous Hero
Chief Consul to Queen Mutare
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posted March 16, 2002 05:04 PM |
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What's "real damage"?
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<Dragons rule, Titans drool!>
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pyromancer
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 17, 2002 01:39 PM |
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the damage that the monster will suffer comparing on his defence and the attack of the attacker. in hmm3 if the attack is higher than the defence- [real damage]=[monster's damage]+5%*(attack - defence)
and if the attack is lower than defence - [real damage]=[monster's damaga]-2%*(defence - attack)
got it?
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jondifool
Promising
Adventuring Hero
extinct but alive!
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posted March 17, 2002 01:58 PM |
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Hmm interesting!
Just thinking why I haven't seen any thing increasing attack and defense with a fixed number on creatures! Always some percentage! And I just got the answer reading this tread!
If both sides brought in a strong tactics hero!. All creatures attack and defense would increase.
if attack and defense is increased the same (by 50% each on both sides) the damage dealt and recieved would not change at all
But if both sides could come with a fixed increased like +20 to defence and +20 to attack (as we now from homm3) Then low level creatures would be much stronger against high level ones! Because the relative differense would be a lot less!
with regard
Jondifool
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The Oxe is slow, but earth have patience
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Xenophanes
Promising
Famous Hero
Chief Consul to Queen Mutare
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posted March 17, 2002 04:52 PM |
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Sorry, I'm still lost - hold on a minute, though, I think it explains it in my Heroes III manual, I'll just look at that.
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<Dragons rule, Titans drool!>
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pyromancer
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 18, 2002 03:45 PM |
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i.e.
in heroes 3
devil 26att 29def 30-40dam (i will take max damage)
titan 24att 24def 40-60dam
devil attacks titan and does 40+5%*(26-24)=40+10%=44 damage
titan attacks devil and does 60-2%*(29-24)=60-10%=54 damage
in heroes 4 - real damage = damage*attack/defence
devil 33att 33def damage 34-50
angel 30att 34def damage 40-65
devil attacks angel and does 50*33/34=48damage
angel attacks devil and does 65*30/33=59damage (but the devil has life ward and will suffer less damage from haven creatures)
or
minotaur 16att 15def 5-10dam
hydra 30att 26def 28-60dam
minotaur takes 60*30/15damage or 120 damage
and the hydra takes 10*16/26 damage or 6 damage
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted March 18, 2002 04:46 PM |
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i.e.
in heroes 3
devil 26att 29def 30-40dam (i will take max damage)
titan 24att 24def 40-60dam
devil attacks titan and does 40+5%*(26-24)=40+10%=44 damage
titan attacks devil and does 60-2%*(29-24)=60-10%=54 damage
=> The reuction would actually be 12%. You see the difference is actually 2.5% per point of difference but the decimals are truncated. So you get 2, 5, 7, 10, 12, 15, 17, 20 etcetera.
=> Offence and Archery also have an interaction which depends on if the attack defence value is positive or negative. Check out one of the later "Behold: Battle of XXXX threads in the Library."
minotaur 16att 15def 5-10dam
hydra 30att 26def 28-60dam
minotaur takes 60*30/15damage or 120 damage
and the hydra takes 10*16/26 damage or 6 damage
=> Perhaps.... but all this depends. Minotaur has Blocking and Hydra has No Retaliation. So depending on who attacks and luck, damage may or may not be assigned.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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hobgoblin
Known Hero
captain hobgoblin
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posted March 18, 2002 05:51 PM |
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I didn't get the explanation of Jondifool
What is this story with percentage?
And does a creature do the same damage in a ripost as in a strike?
If I understand well, low level creatures will be totally useless when you'll be able to recruit high level ones?
Or maybe they can be usefull for scooting, or to defend heroes by going all around them!
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Take me down to a pardise city where the girls are green and the grass is pretty
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hobgoblin
Known Hero
captain hobgoblin
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posted March 18, 2002 05:58 PM |
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Huh, sorry,
Ripost means retaliation!
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Take me down to a pardise city where the girls are green and the grass is pretty
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pyromancer
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 22, 2002 12:13 PM |
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hmmm
i have checked and the 2.5% is correct 
the hydra-minotaur strike was only an example for the damage.
i have a question about the fight value in hmm3. do you know how this is calculated? (i mean the fight value in the .lod file)
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jondifool
Promising
Adventuring Hero
extinct but alive!
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posted March 23, 2002 11:36 AM |
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To Hobgoblin!
I was wondering what was the reason why there is no artifacts(and as I recall no spells!) improving defense and offense with a fixed number but always with a persentage number.
And what i figured out was that if increasing offense/defense with fixed numbers low level creaturs would benefit more than high defense/offense creatures.
This is due the new calculations system!
exsample:
Basicly if fighting up against a stack of black dragons having 40/40 in attack defense!
We have a stack of average level 1 having 10/10 and a stack of avereage level 4 having 30/30.
Now if there defense and offense was increase by 33%, the level 4 would fight euqual, the level one would go from 1/4 damage given and 4x damage taken, to 1/3 and 3x.
With the old system in homm3, if defense/offense was increase 10 points and the new damage calculation was used.
In the above exsample the level 4 stack would againg fight on even terms, with the blac dragons! , but the level 1 creature reaching 20/20 would now give 1/2 half damage, and take 2X damage.
The effect is that when using the new damage calculating formular, low level creatures would benefit more from indcrease in attack/defense than high level creatures if operating with a fixed number increase. To counter this Homm4 use a %increase instead.
Hope this explains it !
with regards
Jondifool
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The Oxe is slow, but earth have patience
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WishMaster
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 25, 2002 01:45 PM |
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Quote:
here is the new combat system:
[real damage]=[monster damage] * [attack] / [defence]
hmmm...is it the same for spellcasters when they are casting spells, such as Faerie Dragon. If it is so then Faerie Dragon will suck, he only gots 15 attack skill.
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jondifool
Promising
Adventuring Hero
extinct but alive!
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posted March 25, 2002 02:12 PM |
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I have been thinking about it too!
But I think spellcasters must do damage related to the numbers of casters! Else huge stacks becomes quite worthless.
with regards
Jondifool
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The Oxe is slow, but earth have patience
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WishMaster
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 25, 2002 02:18 PM |
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Quote:
I have been thinking about it too!
But I think spellcasters must do damage related to the numbers of casters! Else huge stacks becomes quite worthless.
with regards
Jondifool
or perhaps how much mana they got, like if the have max 40 mana then they use 40 instead for the attack skill, the mage gots 16 and the genie 24 so it does make sens.
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jondifool
Promising
Adventuring Hero
extinct but alive!
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posted March 25, 2002 02:24 PM |
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Don't think that max mana is related to it! That I think is for how many spells they can cast , not how powerfull they are in effect.
The only way I could imagine spells power not to be related to how many spellcasters there is in a stack is if the spells a fairy dragon (as exsample) would increase its fighting potential, bringing on equal terms with other level 4 ,but that I find very unlikely.
Jondifool
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The Oxe is slow, but earth have patience
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