|
| Thread: My Old Fear of Technology |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
posted December 21, 2012 03:27 PM |
|
|
But that's the problem, I think it goes hand in hand. For example I gave my daughter a "bag-phone". It was a bulky purse thing and I paid a monthly flat rate. She kept in the trunk and it could only be used for emergencies. She uses a typical cell-phone now (at times).
Her daughter's 1st phone is more advanced than anyone could have thought of 20 years ago, and of course brings new sorts of discipline issues.
Have you had this happen? Your extended-family and friends are gathered together and one of the kid's cell-phone rings and without a thought the kid is answering as if it's a critical call and the physical-bodied folks in front of their eyes, are of zero importance.
<imo>That's a important manners issue only; but, by far, the real worry for me is the internet/computers and that's a very new impact. i.e. Kids hiding behind monitors and pretending to be other characters, is a rather new personality bit that could be harmless fun or (for some)something much worse.
|
|
GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
|
|
posted December 21, 2012 03:48 PM |
|
|
Technology may have evolved a lot since a few decades ago but humans have not. People still have family reunions, make friends, care about strangers. I am pleased and feel nostalgia when I walk past my very old school which I attented for 6 years, about 7-8 years ago and still see children playing on the schoolgrounds like I did.
Technology will not change us because we make technology to suit us in the same way god created mankind in his image. Changes will be made with sacrifices but those sacrifices will have a high reward no doubt.
____________
|
|
master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
|
|
posted December 21, 2012 04:10 PM |
|
|
Technology is what we sacrifice time and money to its altar(s) now.
Precious time and money flows,for which we often receive no responding benefit or revenue.
In Other games I read in a thread about gamers,who spend hundreds(thousands) of hours just to become better at a game,which they not simply play,but more accurately expressed "live in".
____________
"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted December 21, 2012 05:03 PM |
|
|
@Seraphim
You'll have to forgive me; I took my blinders off and after re-reading (what I pasted)..you're correct, it did read like mongering.
Quote:
And as for technology. Machines in general are more efficient than humans. You see some computerized voice answering your calls because it does the job better and it removes a tedious and very unattractive job from the world.
<imo>Removing jobs is never going to be a good idea...ever. When I was young, youth did the small jobs around towns to make a few bucks, when away from class; now old folks take all those jobs to make ends meet.
@GunFred
Quote:
Your fear is definitly not irrational and I can understand that a world without human warmth can seem depressing and even a bit doomsday-ish. But I think there is no point in resisting the future technology.
I'm not anti-tech but I think we should know what we are doing and the fact is there's no way to know future effects. i.e. Look at what developing the A-bomb did to the way people have lived since. Fighting a war...it seemed a good idea, etc. Btw, I like what Thomas Merton said about that; what worried him was that "it was not welcomed by the insane but by the sane"
Quote:
I think that new technology can be seen as a result of evolution and we we do not fear our own offspring do we?
Depends; if we're talking Teminators here?...yes.
Quote:
As long as we do not program machines to eradicate humanity, we should be fine.
I'm thinking more about making humans a little less human and more robotic.
@ OhforfSake
Quote:
Thanks for sharing. Pretty incredible you wrote that already in 1990. Then again, I have little clue of how the world looked like before the 90's.
You too Admittedly, I am a cautious man when it comes to man's inventions. i.e. Very recently; A new type of "Crop-Seed" damnit near killed our bees (for pollination). The cause was first found in France and even with all our great technology stuff it still took the U.S a few years to connect with the French about their findings and save the Bee colonies that survived.
Quote:
What's labeled as technology in the OP, I would label possible consequences of technology.
I agree but as I posted to DD, I think it's more hand in hand as time flows.
Quote:
One more consequence is the lack of interaction. When I was much younger than now, I did not value interaction. I do now for several reasons, one is that I try to love everyone, secondly is that even interacting with people you don't find interesting will make it easier for you to interact with people you do find interesting.
Very good point. That it was I meant, behind my little candy story. "Practice makes perfect"
@JoonasTo
Quote:
I personally find it unappealing to watch any TV before I'm back from uni/work. I don't have a newspaper order so I usually only read the news from the net after I'm back from uni/work.
I can't stand American news. I go for the BBC (world) usually but even that's changing a bit.
Quote:
As to what comes to apathy about news. If your day is ruined by reading about a few dead kids you have a serious case of hypocrisy on your hands. There are a lot more people dying all the time that the news don't talk about. What's 20 kids to the thousands dying of hunger/disease/overweight/traffic? If it is just the concious knowledge of the deaths that bother you then you can choose not to watch the news, only read the parts of paper that are of interest to you, etc.
I agree 110%. The problem with humans used to be "out of sight out of mind" but now it seems it should be modified to "always in sight, never in mind"( I only wish this was funny)
@mvassilev
Quote:
Technology isn't a substitute for positive human interaction. If you live close to people whose company you genuinely enjoy, electronic interaction isn't going to replace that.
But, if you never knew the other (older) way?
Quote:
Technology even creates new fun forms of positive in-person interaction - for example, LAN parties.
Absolutely, I'm not wanting to torch stuff, just safegaurd. Ofc, we really can't
Quote:
The only kind of interaction technology replaces is the kind that wasn't worth much to begin with. Is interacting with tellers really that much fun? I'd rather use an ATM, it's less effort than social interaction with a stranger.
I made many friends from those type of "habitual interactions" and I think the less-important helps the more important but I'm not saying it should matter to you if it doesn't.
@master_learn
Quote:
From a personal point of view I can see that I have now facebook,skype or other communication channels ,which I could use whenever I try to talk over distance with someone important to me.In the past I could write a letter of call over pnone.
Good that you see yourself well. It's a balance issue to me. <imo> One should be well able to write letters; I find it much more personal and even a sort of Art. After losing many loved ones, I wish I had written more. And on that note; in any case..."something/anything is always much better than nothing".
Quote:
The better technology nowadays doesnt mean I have improoved my social skills.In fact,been able to talk using such type of connections is like using a substitute for the real talk and I am encouraged to get lazy and less careful about my body language.
This is an excellent point. Used alone, text is quite cold as a mode of communication. Body language really is a large part of speech. Some people talk with their hands.
@Salamandre
Quote:
About technology: I appreciate I can see movies on my computer, that's all.
I appreciate this too but a day will come when no kid knows what the heck a drive-in movie was. That experience was quite fun and educational. Now, theaters are no loss for me, because they are a box where you're not suppose to interact, just get sneezed on. 
Quote:
Call it old school, but I am convinced that exceptional accomplishments require sacrifices and somehow being alone with yourself sometimes. And now everything is so easy, friends are all around, assuming your turn your computer on. Are they?
Yeah, everything seems so "instant" now. I've called it the "fast-food mentality" Instant gratification, no effort.
|
|
GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
|
|
posted December 21, 2012 05:40 PM |
|
|
It is good that jobs are lost to technology. What is not good though is that society is unable to adapt and divide the remaining workload properly. People with stable jobs hold on to their jobs, afraid to lose them which is understandable. Unfortunatly this causes unemployment and masses of people who either can not or do not want to work. Maybe a 'pinch' of communism could help...
____________
|
|
Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 21, 2012 06:25 PM |
|
|
now, thanks to sites like facebook, you can be in "contact" with your family and friend all the type (which in another hand, seems to become increasingly hard to do in reality).
but the problem I notice on sites like facebook, is that people don't talk most of the time. they just quote posts or copy pictures from some random pages, when they aren't posting about farmville or posting bullsnow to get "likes".
quotes can be one of the worst things, because I assumed people would quote posts that fit their current state of mind, but they actually post whatever they find cool. it can be really confusing.
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 21, 2012 06:27 PM |
|
|
Markkur:
Quote:
Have you had this happen? Your extended-family and friends are gathered together and one of the kid's cell-phone rings and without a thought the kid is answering as if it's a critical call and the physical-bodied folks in front of their eyes, are of zero importance.
Technology didn't cause that, though. It's always been the case that younger people have found some older people to be boring. If they didn't have smartphones, they'd read or want to play outside, and if they weren't allowed to do that, they'd daydream. The fact is that for many people, relatives outside their immediate family aren't interesting enough to pay much attention to - some people have cousins with whom they enjoy spending time, but other than that, "extended family" might as well mean "random people with whom you share blood relations and hear about from time to time". Many people wouldn't want to spend a considerable amount of time at dinner with completely random strangers, and those strangers being related to you doesn't change anything. And when you get a call from a friend, it's communication with someone with whom you have chosen to associate more closely - someone you care about more. It's only natural and right to give it a higher priority.Quote:
But, if you never knew the other (older) way?
The normal way is something that arises naturally from human interaction with people with whom they can be close. People still meet each other at school and at work, and interact face-to-face there. And they're more likely to have something in common if they're both in those environments. Hardly anyone is going to say something like, "Nah, let's not travel 5 minutes to hang out with each other, let's Facebook chat instead." Face-to-face communication with friends is desirable and more enjoyable than through text. Until technology can replicate every aspect of face-to-face interaction, personal contact isn't going away.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted December 22, 2012 04:10 PM |
|
|
@GunFred
Quote:
Technology may have evolved a lot since a few decades ago but humans have not. People still have family reunions, make friends, care about strangers. I am pleased and feel nostalgia when I walk past my very old school which I attented for 6 years, about 7-8 years ago and still see children playing on the schoolgrounds like I did.
Glad to hear your values and also that you see the same in others around you. In what country do you reside?
Quote:
Changes will be made with sacrifices but those sacrifices will have a high reward no doubt.
An example?
@master_learn
Quote:
Technology is what we sacrifice time and money to its altar(s) now.Precious time and money flows,for which we often receive no responding benefit or revenue.
The time issue works both ways doesn't it? We can save lots of time with a gadget but then spend even more time than was saved by exploring the gadget.
Quote:
In Other games I read in a thread about gamers,who spend hundreds(thousands) of hours just to become better at a game,which they not simply play,but more accurately expressed "live in".
I can't say anything there other than I've wasted lots of time in PC games. However, to play fair; If one considers single-efforts as a waste then I've done the very same with my woodworking, bow-hunting, guitar etc. This is a tricky business, because ; we do need some alone-time. What became a problem for me was my own lack of discipline. That's the hard part and where I went wrong alot. (to my deeper values)
@GunFred
Quote:
It is good that jobs are lost to technology. What is not good though is that society is unable to adapt and divide the remaining workload properly. People with stable jobs hold on to their jobs, afraid to lose them which is understandable. Unfortunatly this causes unemployment and masses of people who either can not or do not want to work. Maybe a 'pinch' of communism could help...
Personally, as a Luddite-Ruler, I would remove machines from workplaces and put everyone back to work, then machines could fill the gap...if any.
@Fauch
Quote:
they just quote posts or copy pictures from some random pages, when they aren't posting about farmville or posting bullsnow to get "likes".quotes can be one of the worst things, because I assumed people would quote posts that fit their current state of mind, but they actually post whatever they find cool. it can be really confusing.
I should probally do facebook etc. since most of the family does, but I can't. I tried one of the earlier ones several years ago and didn't like it. The "like" bit sounds like a clever marketing trick, I definately would never bother. E-mail will suffice for my electronics.
@mvassilev
Quote:
... If they didn't have smartphones, they'd read or want to play outside, and if they weren't allowed to do that, they'd daydream. The fact is that for many people, relatives outside their immediate family aren't interesting enough to pay much attention to - some people have cousins with whom they enjoy spending time, but other than that, "extended family" might as well mean "random people with whom you share blood relations and hear about from time to time".
I know that's true enough and points out the age old fact, it's not that Tech is bad or good in itself but what we do with it. (the old hammer-bit) However Tech does bring new problems in a sense. The scene I described about cell-phone; an older phone could not have been answered in the middle of the family gathering...it hung on a wall.
Quote:
Quote:
But, if you never knew the other (older) way?
Quote:
Until technology can replicate every aspect of face-to-face interaction, personal contact isn't going away.
I have always meant more a "hindered as time moves on, because of the machine interactions growing in RL". Btw, about two years ago, I read that an Asian Tech. Co. was fine-tuning a "touch"-tech; and another was working on some sort of "robot nanny" for the family. Thank God I will not be around when these horrors are everyday.
|
|
Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 22, 2012 06:25 PM |
|
Edited by Fauch at 18:33, 22 Dec 2012.
|
Quote:
I should probally do facebook etc. since most of the family does, but I can't. I tried one of the earlier ones several years ago and didn't like it. The "like" bit sounds like a clever marketing trick, I definately would never bother. E-mail will suffice for my electronics.
well, facebook is mostly people posting random spam. if you have other means to contact them, it doesn't bring much more. though, it is possible to find interesting stuff, but that's still mostly spam. for example, of all the pages I "liked", there is actually only 1 I check.
Quote:
and another was working on some sort of "robot nanny" for the family. Thank God I will not be around when these horrors are everyday.
lol. I would say the horror is the fact we think we need robot nannies. if I understand well, people are expected to make babies, but not to take care of them? 
btw, the robot nanny for busy parents already exists, it's called the television lol
|
|
GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
|
|
posted December 22, 2012 09:27 PM |
|
|
I am 19 years old and from Sweden. Nostalgia has the mysterious power of making you feel old no matter how young you are, yet it is a pleasant feeling.
I agree on that it is certainly better to give jobs to people rather than machines if the other option is having mass unemployment. The ultimate solution I think though would be to give as many jobs as possible to machines (with jobs humans enjoy as exception) and splitting the remaining work fairly among people. Problem is, to artificially create or control jobs might just be a step across a dangerous line.
____________
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 22, 2012 09:51 PM |
|
|
Markkur:
Quote:
Tech does bring new problems in a sense. The scene I described about cell-phone
Why is that a problem?Quote:
I have always meant more a "hindered as time moves on, because of the machine interactions growing in RL". Btw, about two years ago, I read that an Asian Tech. Co. was fine-tuning a "touch"-tech; and another was working on some sort of "robot nanny" for the family. Thank God I will not be around when these horrors are everyday.
No matter how machines I interact with in RL, unless they become nearly indistinguishable from humans, they're not going to reduce the amount or quality of meaningful human interaction. (They could, however, reduce the amount of low-value interaction, where I don't get much out of talking to another person and just want to do what I came there to do.) And if machines become good enough to simulate human interaction sufficiently accurately, even better.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted December 22, 2012 09:53 PM |
|
|
If you want a prime example of people over machines go to China. They are artificially limiting their agricultural development. One reason is to keep the to keep the nation from plummeting into massive unemployment.
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 22, 2012 09:55 PM |
|
|
Quote:
I agree on that it is certainly better to give jobs to people rather than machines if the other option is having mass unemployment. The ultimate solution I think though would be to give as many jobs as possible to machines (with jobs humans enjoy as exception) and splitting the remaining work fairly among people.
why is mass unemployment a problem?
Quote:
Problem is, to artificially create or control jobs might just be a step across a dangerous line.
?
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 22, 2012 09:58 PM |
|
|
I guess that in a future where machines produce everything and service everyone, the best solution would basically be to give all obedient citizens free wellfare. I guess the market would make the few people that have work, i.e. the owners of the machines, super rich.
How ironic that my liberal utopia of the future might end up being socialist.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
|
|
Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 23, 2012 03:39 AM |
|
|
|
why only "obedient citizens"?
|
|
GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
|
|
posted December 23, 2012 02:09 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
I agree on that it is certainly better to give jobs to people rather than machines if the other option is having mass unemployment. The ultimate solution I think though would be to give as many jobs as possible to machines (with jobs humans enjoy as exception) and splitting the remaining work fairly among people.
why is mass unemployment a problem?
Quote:
Problem is, to artificially create or control jobs might just be a step across a dangerous line.
?
Mass unemployment is a problem because in most societies you will not be able to provide for yourself without a job. And in societies where the jobless are taken care of, the jobless are either abusing the system or simply unable to get a job but still blamed for making the workers do all the work. And for a lot of people, work is more about dignity rather than money.
A lot of people would be upset and scream communism if a government tried to manipulate economy and jobs.
____________
|
|
Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted December 23, 2012 03:42 PM |
|
Edited by Fauch at 15:46, 23 Dec 2012.
|
|
but if machines do the work, they provide for everyone. or maybe we will blame people for abusing the machines?
|
|
master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
|
|
posted December 23, 2012 04:07 PM |
|
|
There are certainly machines,which provide for everybody.
I dont know how it is abroad,but in Bulgaria we have for example at the airports,stations and other places,where you can put some coins in a machine that makes you coffee.
Other machines provide for you only if you put in the ticket you previously bought-thats the case of using the metro.
Many machines can be used for others advantage against yours disadvantage.So you should look carefully for what you are provided from these machines.
Many machines may also give you some leverage.
Such example can be:
1.Your credit card,which helps you pay without cash in you;
2.The internet links you can use to pay your debts without going to some institution to do the same;
3.Your washing machine(saves you time,otherwise spent to wash by hands)
4.Elevator(saves you time walking the stairs)
5.The screens with the shedule of the travelling destinations;
6.Many others,which help you in some good way for you.
____________
"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
|
|
markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
|
|
posted December 23, 2012 04:55 PM |
|
Edited by markkur at 16:57, 23 Dec 2012.
|
@GunFred
Quote:
I am 19 years old and from Sweden. Nostalgia has the mysterious power of making you feel old no matter how young you are, yet it is a pleasant feeling.
I get the impression the scandinaian countries are in better cultural health (between generations)than many others? Anyway yes it's true nostagia can play a large role in criticisms like mine on tech. But however that may be with me; I worked in manufacturing most of my life and even when having to run a machine for a living, the magicians of the business world were always making more machines to get rid of more of us and succedded.
Quote:
I agree on that it is certainly better to give jobs to people rather than machines if the other option is having mass unemployment. The ultimate solution I think though would be to give as many jobs as possible to machines (with jobs humans enjoy as exception)...
Yeah, as the work-dictator of the world,I need to make a correction in my earlier rant; I would target jobs like coal and lead-mining (in the dust)for the robots, the nasty jobs.
@mvassilev
Quote:
Quote:
marrkur=Tech does bring new problems in a sense. The scene I described about cell-phone.
Quote:
Why is that a problem?
One more hassle for a parent. If next, the phones feature the startrek-beam-about, then at thanksgiving the parents will have to track the kid down before yelling at them to appreciate their grandparents walked 3 miles in a blizzard to see them.
Quote:
No matter how machines I interact with in RL, unless they become nearly indistinguishable from humans, they're not going to reduce the amount or quality of meaningful human interaction
Don't forget about "time". The more machines invade the daily life the more it's machine that dominates thought.
@JoonasTo
Quote:
If you want a prime example of people over machines go to China. Quote:
They are artificially limiting their agricultural development. One reason is to keep the to keep the nation from plummeting into massive unemployment.
We just saw a 5-part Documentary on China. Although the country is full of problems with pollution issues, there was a lot of evidence that the management was getting the picture and starting to seek answers.
|
|
del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
|
|
posted December 23, 2012 07:41 PM |
|
|
Markkur:
Quote:
I have always meant more a "hindered as time moves on, because of the machine interactions growing in RL". Btw, about two years ago, I read that an Asian Tech. Co. was fine-tuning a "touch"-tech; ... *clippet* ... Thank God I will not be around when these horrors are everyday.
Am I missing some context, why is it bad to attempt making a newly mass markeded techology and make sure it works? A modern horror of projects is that you have people make techology, and none of them are users of said techology. Touch screen is a quite good example of this. A project, makes a device using said tech, using a OS, and it... don't work at all. The people making this device got used to all its shortcomings, such as the OS being horrible for touch, or that it technology in itself never worked properly(hard to input).
The next step is usually that this tech would work quite well for a niche group that runs some franchise, so they would buy it, and it would still be horribly broken.
Some time later, somebody might get the idea of taking this tech(once the patents runs out), and try to fix the flaws, and actually test it properly. And think about this. Hammers, nails, scissors, cooking pots, stoves, ovens, hair driers, knives, and a extreme amount of tools have had a lot more than 70 years to be improved. A lot of them has roots back to various farmers, miners and metalworkers working together to make a specific tool for a specific task. Tools such as the Leatherman didn't instantly wipe out a lot of tools once it got to the marked, because it was not as good as those who had been tested and developed.
Making sure technology works as intended is a good thing. Now.... if you said "Is Facebook a bad fad?", we have something more interisting to talk about, and you already pointed it out quite a few times. Per date, facebook is horrible, but what it does might be nothing more than to point out there is quite a lot of uneducated plebians in our society. Another question are if this odd behavior towards facebook will go away once people get used to it, or if it will be just another thing people do instead of something better.
____________
|
| |
|
|
