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| Thread: Creature rankings | |
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Alaksandu
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 08, 2013 08:47 PM |
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Creature rankings
The experience value is certainly the most interesting creature statistic (all creature statistics are located in the table.creatures file inside ..\HOMM 4\Data\text.h4r, and can easily be modified).
Exp. seems to serve as a "catch-'em-all" number for a creature, and probably serves as an internal ranking for the game. It is positively correlated with the unit cost (taking into account that might creatures are approximately 30\% cheaper), and I suspect there's some complex formula to calculate the experience value of a creature by inputting all creature statistics (but ignoring their abilities). Apart from a few oddities (Water E and Goblin Knights are ranked too low), listing all creatures according to their exp. is in broad agreement with my personal experience.
However, several creatures have the same exp., for instance: Halfling/Leprechaun/Pirate/Sprite/Squire (7). I would like to know which of them is the best creature in general. How would you rank them?
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Theunknown
Known Hero
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posted September 10, 2013 07:13 PM |
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Experience is only there to rank neutral creatures. Water elementals give more experience because they can almost always do a decent amount of damage to your army unlike the earth elementals that can be manipulated a lot due to their movement.
Having the same creatures with a certain type of hero may yield much different results. Water elementals have (almost) the same offensive capabilities with or without a full GM tactical hero, but air elementals can attack any unit they want, not just the first row like they sometimes can.
For the ones you mentioned (sprite, squire e.t.c.)I think that the numbers are fine but we should see better mapmaking. Why do I say this?
Leprechauns are a great team player if you combine them, they are worth their salt, but if alone they are one of the easiest neutral armies and then they are worth less exp. So if people make neutral enemies they should mix leprechauns with sprites or wolves more often. 6 - 7 exp
Squires are fine for me as a neutral, you will pay your price if you ignore them but they can be dealt with if you focus on them. 7 xp
Sprites as a neutral maybe aren't worth so much experience but if enemy plays Nature that 7 exp creature can steal much of your precious resources right in front of your mines ... eyes  7-8 exp
Pirates are just too situational, they are worth more than 7 on boat but less on land, so we can say 7 is a middle that makes all of them happy just as much as the booty. 7 exp
Halflings should give more exp in my opinion. They do fine damage from long range and great damage from normal and short range, with a level 1 wizard with precision they are an army killer. Even only as neutrals if they are part of a combined army like with dwarves they are pretty effective due to dwarves being probably the best tanking unit. So they should give at least 8 when compared to the rest you mentioned. 8 exp
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Alaksandu
Tavern Dweller
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posted September 10, 2013 08:26 PM |
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Well, experience is more than just a ranking.
For instance, suppose the Leprechaun's exp is lowered to just 1. Then the Creature Portal building would summon 700 leprechauns per week (instead of 100) and the "Summon Leprechaun" spell would also summon seven times as many creatures.
Furthermore, the creature's price is highly correlated with its exp.
Black Dragons (exp 1233) is twice as expansive as most other lvl 4 creatures (exp 609-630); Vampires (205), Cyclopses (203), and Venom Spawns (201) have the same price (if we take into account that all might creatures are 30\% cheaper); etc.
As I said, I suspect the exp is also related to all other stats, though I haven't figured out the exact formula (yet).
But, returning to my question, may I conclude you would rank those five creatures in general as below?
Weakest - Leprechaun, Squires, Sprites, Pirates, Halflings - Strongest
PS: Pirates won't appear on land under normal circumstances
PPS: Actually, Water E give less exp (73) than Air (74), Fire (75), Earth (77) and every other lvl 3 creature.
PPPS: The Goblin Knight (cost 1000) has only 157 exp. (for comparison: Nightmare (148) and Griffin (154) cost 800; Ice Demon (157), Naga (157) and Efreet (161) cost 850.) I think the Goblin Knight should actually have approximately 190 exp.
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Theunknown
Known Hero
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posted September 11, 2013 08:58 AM |
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Keep in mind that town economy needs to be balanced as well, so that is why level 4 creatures always cost 4000 if they are 2 per week 8000 if 1 per week, 2000 if 4 per week. Only might town has different prices but it's all fair in any case.
I agree that experience and price should be in a close relationship, but again ... as a neutral army some creatures are much more effective than others so it's only natural that they should give more exp so that the player that beats them gets a bigger reward. Equilibris mod for example changed the exp of vampires 275 from 205 and some others including
Quote:
Air Elemental experience is lifted to 77 (was 74).
Earth Elemental experience is lowered to 65 (was 77).
Fire Elemental experience is lowered to 72 (was 75).
Water Elemental experience is raised to 90 (was 73).
I think that everyone can agree that the exp changes were done just fine by them although some changes like for level 1 or 2 creatures can still be made to make the game even better.
I won't rank them as weakest but as lowest exp to give.
Leprechaun 6, Squire 7, Pirate 7, Sprite 7, Halfling 8. Where Pirate and Sprite can go to 8 because of Pirates always fighting on ship and Sprites being too powerful when in hands of a player.
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