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ShadowHero
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 30, 2013 05:17 PM |
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WoG suggestions
Hi, Im rather new here, but I played WoG before (before ERA etc.). I noticed some quirks and issues, maybe bugs and I would like to talk about this.
Is there any further develompment on WoG? WoG as it is is great mod but from player perpective this decentralization of mods where player must download this, that, not that etc. etc. is really stupid and painful, why aren't mods like WoG revisited integrated into WoG itself?
I play ERA II btw, if there are various versions I dont know whats mine since I cant see the version info anywhere (also something you should consider to do).
Anyway, to my list:
WG option: New treasure chests 2 - these are unbalanced and favors casters over noncasters, while casters are already more powerful than noncasters.
WG option: AI experiences setting - I would like to be able to set neutral units/towns and AI alone - tried Expert and while neutral stacks were gaining levels proportionally to my progression, computer who just stolen my castle and bought units from it already had 6th rank tomorrow with them without any battle - is this somehow affected by time in game? And if this is already possible to do, then tell me please how or what exactly those settings when I choose custom means (some additional information when rightclicked would be great!)
Some scripts that I think Im not the only one who sees are stupid:
- fishing well
- adventure cave
- living scrolls
- palace of dreams
- metamorphs
- heroes pick up double artifacts
- heroes create magic plains every day
- monsters muttering
Some ideas and remarks from my gameplay:
 When wraiths are stealing mana, it could be written in combat log how much they have stolen.
 Commander artifacts+Warlord's Banner have cost of 1gp in the artifact store. Should have standard price at least, imo banner is worth of 500gp.
Scrolls cost in artifact shop is the same while various spells are on them. The cost should be highly dependant on spell level I think. It would be more useful then to pick them up and sell.
The creature banks should (if not, but I think they aren't) have a favored terrain they can spawn. So there would be serpent hives in swamp but very rarely at snow/burn ground etc.
I noticed that cavaliers are transformed in skeleton transformer to the black knights (which is great) but champions to the skeletons... This smells like a bug and champions should also be transferred to black knights imo. Not yet tried dragons yet.
Commander spells: While some commanders have very useful spells like undeas, other does not so. For spells like cure, stone skin, etc. the progression of the magic power commander skill should allow the spell to be cast on all friendly units when in grandmaster mode, otherwise whats the point.
The magic well is named "fishing well" even when Fishing Well script is disabled. Same goes for rebuilding ability of Jedite hero when this is not enabled.
What about automatic income from mills and those green magic something so player would not have to go there wizth hero every time?
AI: is weird and doing stupid things like casting with commander cure at first aid tent, repeatedly. Also happened to me that my town has been captured by strong hero who cast armageddon repeatedly. Where I failed dozen times, quickcombat managed to win, dunno how is that possible  . Well, link me to the threads where is explained how to modify AI and I could try it, I'm proficient with programming a bit so it shouldn't be that much problem.
 And lastly, is there some mod that changes the hero/commander behavior to more like homam4? That is that hero and commander would be the same person with same skills etc? I think it would allowed to improve skills like eagle eye etc. so they could grant bonuses to the hero/commander in combat instead.
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felipe
Known Hero
Editing Heroes Without Limits
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posted October 30, 2013 06:34 PM |
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Is there any further develompment on WoG? WoG as it is is great mod but from player perpective this decentralization of mods where player must download this, that, not that etc. etc. is really stupid and painful, why aren't mods like WoG revisited integrated into WoG itself?
A: Because players do not agree exactly about what they want. ERA/WOG is the base almost everybody use, but the details depends on every player taste. So... never everything will be put together.
I play ERA II btw, if there are various versions I dont know whats mine since I cant see the version info anywhere (also something you should consider to do).
A: The last one is ERA 2.46. There is a command to know the ERA version. Ask at the topic about ERA, there you can find the last version. A new version 5.5 is under test.
WG option: New treasure chests 2 - these are unbalanced and favors casters over noncasters, while casters are already more powerful than noncasters.
A: Depend on the MODs you are using. But if you don't like it why you don't just turn it off?
WG option: AI experiences setting - I would like to be able to set neutral units/towns and AI alone - tried Expert and while neutral stacks were gaining levels proportionally to my progression, computer who just stolen my castle and bought units from it already had 6th rank tomorrow with them without any battle - is this somehow affected by time in game? And if this is already possible to do, then tell me please how or what exactly those settings when I choose custom means (some additional information when rightclicked would be great!)
A: Click at WOG options and right click the creatures get experience option. There is written that they won experience by day depending on the difficult level and the options you choose at the wog options.
Some scripts that I think Im not the only one who sees are stupid:
- fishing well (I like it)
- adventure cave (I like it)
- living scrolls (I like it)
- palace of dreams (I like it)
- metamorphs (I like it)
- heroes pick up double artifacts (I agree with you)
- heroes create magic plains every day (I agree with you)
- monsters muttering (I agree with you)
A: But they are optional. Just turn off if you don't like it. It's not necessary to take them off the MOD.
When wraiths are stealing mana, it could be written in combat log how much they have stolen.
A: I thought they always stole 2 mana points.
Commander artifacts+Warlord's Banner have cost of 1gp in the artifact store. Should have standard price at least, imo banner is worth of 500gp.
A: Good idea. I will change it at my MOD.
Scrolls cost in artifact shop is the same while various spells are on them. The cost should be highly dependant on spell level I think. It would be more useful then to pick them up and sell.
A: This is difficult to do, because all the scrolls are the same artifact. But I think it is possible to change anyway. I will try it.
The creature banks should (if not, but I think they aren't) have a favored terrain they can spawn. So there would be serpent hives in swamp but very rarely at snow/burn ground etc.
A: Hum... The terrain already influence the banks that will appear there. Anyway... the creatures appear anywhere with no relation to his town or terrain. Like fire elementals appear at snow. Why banks should be different?
I noticed that cavaliers are transformed in skeleton transformer to the black knights (which is great) but champions to the skeletons... This smells like a bug and champions should also be transferred to black knights imo. Not yet tried dragons yet.
A: I will test it.
Commander spells: While some commanders have very useful spells like undeas, other does not so. For spells like cure, stone skin, etc. the progression of the magic power commander skill should allow the spell to be cast on all friendly units when in grandmaster mode, otherwise whats the point.
A: I totally agree. I will do it at my MOD.
The magic well is named "fishing well" even when Fishing Well script is disabled. Same goes for rebuilding ability of Jedite hero when this is not enabled.
A: You may have an old version. My well is a fishing well.
What about automatic income from mills and those green magic something so player would not have to go there wizth hero every time?
A: I like this way.
AI: is weird and doing stupid things like casting with commander cure at first aid tent, repeatedly. Also happened to me that my town has been captured by strong hero who cast armageddon repeatedly. Where I failed dozen times, quickcombat managed to win, dunno how is that possible . Well, link me to the threads where is explained how to modify AI and I could try it, I'm proficient with programming a bit so it shouldn't be that much problem.
A: Quick combat and AI have this problems. Anyway they are much more intelligent than at the first versions of the game.
And lastly, is there some mod that changes the hero/commander behavior to more like homam4? That is that hero and commander would be the same person with same skills etc? I think it would allowed to improve skills like eagle eye etc. so they could grant bonuses to the hero/commander in combat instead.
A: No.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 30, 2013 07:20 PM |
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ShadowHero said:
player must download this, that, not that etc. etc. is really stupid and painful
If mods are decentralized, this is mainly due to technical reasons, as limited variables. This also heavily limits their compatibility as well. Personally I find optimal the way it works, you download the mod you like and you enable it via mod manager, like in Oblivion. And if we recall wog 3.58f period, where each "mod" required a whole new Heroes folder, we can only realize why Era is far from stupid and how valuable work Bersy achieved.
ShadowHero said:
Some scripts that I think Im not the only one who sees are stupid:
All those scripts are excellent work and done by people who freely shared their time. Maybe it is a language problem, but I find your constant use of "stupid" disturbing and disrespectful. How many mods from the 70 available you signed?
One of WoG unique qualities is that it is self disabling up to 100%. All those scripts which do not suit your game play style can be turned off.
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ShadowHero
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 30, 2013 07:30 PM |
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Thanks for response, ok so there is no "standartization" right? No group of modders that would try to update and maintain "official" WoG version?
btw, just few things
felipe said:
The creature banks should (if not, but I think they aren't) have a favored terrain they can spawn. So there would be serpent hives in swamp but very rarely at snow/burn ground etc.
A: Hum... The terrain already influence the banks that will appear there. Anyway... the creatures appear anywhere with no relation to his town or terrain. Like fire elementals appear at snow. Why banks should be different?
I should probably clarify this. it is known that map randomizer places huge ammount of Serpent fly hives. WoGifization then turns many of them to the new creature bank types. And now thats a problem, because with so many objects what happens is that there are completely randomly and even on map designed with a serpent fly hives around swamp town (to boost that town) after wogifization player gets house of bats, transylvania tavern, grotto and more. If each bank had coded a favored terrain it could solve this issue and spawn banks more cleverly.
felipe said:
The magic well is named "fishing well" even when Fishing Well script is disabled. Same goes for rebuilding ability of Jedite hero when this is not enabled.
A: You may have an old version. My well is a fishing well.
thats what I meant, with a "fishing well" script disabled it should be "magical well".
and btw what is your mod you reffered to?
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ShadowHero
Tavern Dweller
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posted October 30, 2013 08:00 PM |
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Salamandre said:
And if we recall wog 3.58f period, where each "mod" required a whole new Heroes folder, we can only realize why Era is far from stupid and how valuable work Bersy achieved.
Yes sure this is great, but it also added a new problem, decentralization. There are dozens of modifications, and lack of support. Mods often missing version number, are incompatible with each other and contain various bugs. What I asked is if there is a group of modders like in Jagged Alliance 2 1.13 who would seek available mods and added them into a main WoG time after time based on players responses.
Now I know what the answer is and its a shame.
ShadowHero said:
All those scripts are excellent work and done by people who freely shared their time. Maybe it is a language problem, but I find your constant use of "stupid" disturbing and disrespectful. How many mods from the 70 available you signed?
One of WoG unique qualities is that it is self disabling up to 100%. All those scripts which do not suit your game play style can be turned off.
How many mods I signed? Cheap shot from you since I have 2posts and signed in this forum two days ago. But I made almost 50mods for different game. In fact, Im playing Homam3 as a vacation of that game. So no thank you I wont make my own mod (which you suggested in other thread). Im giving you my gameplay experiences, personal opinions. If it helps someone and add him motivation for his own work, great. If it piss someone else, well happens - wasnt my intent.
I will yet explain why I suggested these scripts are "bad" and why they should be probably removed. I'ts mainly because future development on WoG (which seems to stopped, but I didn't knew this). There is only limited place for choices in WoG options, and also force player to read and toggle on/off hundrets options isn't very nice. I already noticed that there are more options for WoG in ERA2 showed in era start - plugins manager. Many of choices there sounds more interesting and useable to me than some stupid fishing well.
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Bersy
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted October 30, 2013 09:28 PM |
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ShadowHero, there are 1.5 active modders (I'm simplifying, of course) and this is what determines the value of support, organization, standardization and so on. In other words, size of community is crucial for activity. It's ok, new games with hundreds of modmakers are richer and provide more tasty features, options and presets for players.
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felipe
Known Hero
Editing Heroes Without Limits
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posted November 01, 2013 02:39 AM |
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ShadowHero
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 01, 2013 08:56 PM |
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felipe said:
My MOD:
Box.com
[url=https://app.box.com/s/3op9arh04b8wus0cwx90]Heroes Without Limits beta[/url]
4shared
[url=http://www.4shared.com/account/home.jsp#dir=Up04SrNx]Heroes Without Limits beta[/url]
will check out
btw, just found few more things i found in my gameplay:
Warlord's banner: bonuses are sometimes lost and reset to health, I could'n found out what exactly causes this but happened like 10 times per campaign to me
Speaking or Warlors Banner, I think that its ability to change effect is quite imbalanced as well as that not every bonuses are equal, why would anyone use defense when there is 25% block of 50% dmg? Wouldn't be better to make a special Warlord Banner like artefacts with given bonus instead? It would also solved the problem with fact that they stockpile later (i mean they would stockpiled too, but player would want to seek for them to find those he need, while this way after he finds 12 its any more is just trash with no meaning).
Garrisons: perfect addition and very interesting battles, but i found bug: it grants mithril even when mithril is disabled
Necromancy: if there are skeleton warriors in army and no missing place, then instead of normal skeletons, warriors are created no matter of necromancy level (not 100% sure about this though) at the same time even on expert, if there IS a place for a new stack, normal skeletons are made. Wouldn't be more logical to make always same kind of skeleton based on necromancy level? basic, standard - norm, expert - improved.
btw, i played tower, dungeon, that non caster town (fortress?) and necropolis and necropolis with the necromancy seems most powerful at all. I know this town was very powerful before too, but now with stack experiences it seems its even more since the lowest creatures gets most experiences am I correct? Well its fun to play anyway 
EDIT: plus some new portals (monoliths) are portalling also between other portals of old type - is this mean to be four-way portal or its a bug?
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felipe
Known Hero
Editing Heroes Without Limits
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posted November 01, 2013 09:47 PM |
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Warlord's banner: bonuses are sometimes lost and reset to health, I could'n found out what exactly causes this but happened like 10 times per campaign to me
A:Are you sure? The banner experience is connected to the creature rank. If you combine creatures with no rank the rank of the group will fall.
Speaking or Warlors Banner, I think that its ability to change effect is quite imbalanced as well as that not every bonuses are equal, why would anyone use defense when there is 25% block of 50% dmg? Wouldn't be better to make a special Warlord Banner like artefacts with given bonus instead? It would also solved the problem with fact that they stockpile later (i mean they would stockpiled too, but player would want to seek for them to find those he need, while this way after he finds 12 its any more is just trash with no meaning).
A: 25% X 50% = 12,5% = at max 3 defense points.
Make artifacts for creatures is a hard job...
Necromancy: if there are skeleton warriors in army and no missing place, then instead of normal skeletons, warriors are created no matter of necromancy level (not 100% sure about this though) at the same time even on expert, if there IS a place for a new stack, normal skeletons are made. Wouldn't be more logical to make always same kind of skeleton based on necromancy level? basic, standard - norm, expert - improved.
A: It was always like that.
EDIT: plus some new portals (monoliths) are portalling also between other portals of old type - is this mean to be four-way portal or its a bug?
A: It was always like this if I remember well
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Zaekyr
Tavern Dweller
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posted November 26, 2013 06:32 PM |
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In some ways I agree with you Shadow Hero. When I first found WoG I got excited by a lot of the new features but as I played I got more and more disappointed and disabled scripts as I went. I myself like living scrolls but dislike a lot of things that don't really add to the game especially since the AI doesn't seem to take advantage of them. I understand some people like them and that AI is probably the hardest thing to code. I suppose my biggest problem is as you mentioned with the sloppy code. I too don't like my magic wells being labeled fishing wells and the mouse over doesn't remind me of whether or not it has been visited. Hopefully I can dig into some of the problems and fix them.
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