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| Thread: Let's help each others deal with misplaced border guards (HotA) |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted January 09, 2014 08:58 PM |
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Edited by Hippox89 at 23:33, 09 Jan 2014.
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Let's help each others deal with misplaced border guards (HotA)
Introduction:
Misplaced border guards are a nuisance in random generated maps, and it's one of those things that might make a game less fun to play when misplaces happen - which it often do. Yes, even in HotA (so far at least).
So I thought about how I could get around it and that's what this thread is really all about. The problem with dealing with misplaces lies in a couple of things. 1: It's time consuming, especially when editing bigger maps. 2: You don't want to see the map that you're going to play.
-Lazy border guard has left his post. You had one job!
A possible solution:
If some of us where to upload maps in this thread that has been corrected for misplaces after specific standards for consistency, well, then we'd be able to enjoy maps without such errors in them, well, at least some of them where it makes the most sense. The more that contributes, the better.
Possible issues:
1: HotA is not a done thing and changes will be made that outdates our work. If the HotA crew manages to fix/lessen this standing issue then that's really great. But this is really more about 'now' then 'if' and 'when'.
2: We're editing pre-generated maps and therefore the towns for the players has already been picked, however, if your choice was already to have players play as random then it might not be an issue for you. It's also possible to upload maps with specific towns picked, of course, whatever you want to share.
What I/we do:
Check all borders for misplaces
Check all towns for being blocked (as a bonus, if you want)
Consistency:
First, this is discussable and please do so.
Choices which I make in specific situations:
1. If a border with a misplace has more guards then which is needed to close the hole, then I'll let extra guard(s) stay. An exception to this could be if you need to defeat 2 guards to get into a zone, but I haven't yet had to deal with such a situation. What do you think?
2. If a border has no guards at all then that is to be assumed on purpose. Don't ever place new creatures yourself.
3. Avoid spoilers if not intended. Such as which town that was randomized for the colours invovled.
Disclaimer:
There's of course also other ways to deal with misplaces, you could correct maps for yourself and wait until memory fades. But in that case, why not share? You could also employ gentlemen rules against abuses. This is also a good solution that's more flexible, however, it's still annoying and open to lazy abuse. Less rules to keep track of is better.
There might be issues with my idea which I have failed to spot and consider.
Let me know if you think this is a terrible idea and why you think so, or if you have something to contribute to the concept.
End notes:
If we could somehow make an organized list of shared maps then that would be useful. I'm thinking if I could link to a hidden thread which only I can update which has all the maps shared. Would that be a good idea?
My personal list of shared, random maps that has been corrected (so far). I'll add more. Any requests?
2 player maps, XH
ID=XH-2P-MAP1-Hippox89
Size = XH
Water content = None
Number of human players = 2
Computers = off
Number of teams = 0
Two level map = no
Monster strength = normal
Template: Default
HotA 1.3.1, date made: 09-01-14, version 1
Download
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted January 09, 2014 09:26 PM |
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While I accept that maps were better with correctly placed guards my preferred way of dealing with is either not to give a toss or just fight them anyway.
One time you are lucky, next time your opponent is going to be.
In my opinion such considerations about equal opportunities and numerous rules just deprive multiplayer (which I guess is your main concern) experience of fun and lighthertedness.
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Hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted January 09, 2014 09:30 PM |
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Edited by Hippox89 at 21:30, 09 Jan 2014.
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@gatecrasher
I agree somewhat. It's a view that solves the issue certainly, but it's a way to get lucky/unlucky that feels kinda lame to me. I like random stuff, but not this one so much.
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted January 09, 2014 09:45 PM |
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Hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted January 09, 2014 09:59 PM |
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Edited by Hippox89 at 21:59, 09 Jan 2014.
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@Warmonger
Of course, as I also said. However, I have no knowledge if this is even possible or when it'll possibly be fixed. I welcome any info to shred light on this.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 09, 2014 10:00 PM |
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Hippox89 said:
-Lazy border guard has left his post. You had one job!
lol, that's gold. 
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nik312
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 09, 2014 10:05 PM |
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Edited by nik312 at 22:06, 09 Jan 2014.
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Well, in today's multiplayer misplaced guards are just a simple rule to follow. On XL templates you can pass them w/o fighting, unless they are an MG ( main guard) of the template. On L and smaller templates you must always fight a misplaced guard.
Of course that is a bug to be fixed eventually (though a tough one), but for now it does not seem like such a major problem (unless playing with computer, which cannot obey rules)
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted January 09, 2014 10:49 PM |
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I hope in the future it gets fixed 
____________
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 09, 2014 10:58 PM |
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What do misplaced guards have to do with HoTA?!
This is rmg problem and is unsolved until now, despite knowledgeable people working on. Therefore a special rule is actually applied to game-play.
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Hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted January 09, 2014 11:20 PM |
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Edited by Hippox89 at 00:10, 10 Jan 2014.
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Salamandre said:
What do misplaced guards have to do with HoTA?!
This is rmg problem and is unsolved until now, despite knowledgeable people working on. Therefore a special rule is actually applied to game-play.
Nothing. Who said so? You just misunderstand. However, I only find it believable that HotA might address it - at least at this point in time.
I simply dedicated this thread to HotA. Is that a crime? It would not be in this sub-forum if HotA had its own.
Edit: To clarify, my personal interests is only in HotA at the moment. Dedicating this specific thread to HotA is only about the focus. I don't mind anyone else making another topic, if there's any interests in during so.
nik312 said:
Well, in today's multiplayer misplaced guards are just a simple rule to follow. On XL templates you can pass them w/o fighting, unless they are an MG ( main guard) of the template. On L and smaller templates you must always fight a misplaced guard.
Of course that is a bug to be fixed eventually (though a tough one), but for now it does not seem like such a major problem (unless playing with computer, which cannot obey rules)
Thanks for elaborating on this subject. I hope you guys can do it, however, I agree it's not anything truly major compared to other things.
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Hobbit
Supreme Hero
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posted January 10, 2014 01:17 AM |
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It's funny how HotA is around for about 2 years, RMG was added year ago and no one complained about things like that, but 10 days after ENGLISH release hordes of users are making wish-threads all over the place.
But RMG improvement is a good thing, continue discussing it! 
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Horn of the
Abyss on AcidCave
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hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted January 10, 2014 01:41 AM |
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Edited by hippox89 at 01:57, 10 Jan 2014.
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This is not really a wish/complain thread but discussion related to the RMG is very welcome. All I'm really seeing is that people enjoy HotA and that they want more of it. And with a game like Heroes 3 then it's extremely easy to imagine many different possibilities which seem open to the game, especially, with the HotA crew in the ring with their talents and approach to making an expansion.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted January 10, 2014 01:59 AM |
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Take a moment and think before proposing "solutions"
What is a random map and what is its purpose in MP?
UNKNOWN. By both players. The map must not exist before they start the game
You propose to release pre-made random maps, because you worry about a tiny thing nobody ever complained about. Do you understand why this solution conflicts 100% with the randomness concept?
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Era II mods and utilities
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hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted January 10, 2014 02:14 AM |
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Edited by hippox89 at 02:26, 10 Jan 2014.
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The question is really, did you think it through yourself? Also, what is your problem?
A random generated map is random. It doesn't matter if I opened it up. It is still a random generated map. If somebody downloads that map I corrected and plays it with a friend, guess what, it is still to unknown to them, and it is still a random map.
Edit:
If you haven't got anything of value to say then just ignore this thread. If nobody is interested or appreciates my contribution then this thread will surely die on its own good.
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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted January 10, 2014 02:39 AM |
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hippox89 said:
If you haven't got anything of value to say then just ignore this thread. If nobody is interested or appreciates my contribution then this thread will surely die on its own good.
Isn't the whole concept of forum about sharing your opinion? It means you can approve something or criticise it. People who are throwing their ideas and expecting ONLY kind words from other users are childish at least...
I also think edited random maps are no longer random. In multi nobody will bother to use some pre-made "quasi random" maps edited by someone else (to keep balance random map can't be visible to ANY player before actually playing the game) while in single player random nobody cares about misplaced guards.
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hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted January 10, 2014 02:50 AM |
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Edited by hippox89 at 03:15, 10 Jan 2014.
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Right, like his tone was any friendly. Opinions are certainly very welcome, but mocking is not bothering expressing yourself in a good manner. Can you tell the difference?
Edit: To clarify, the 'you' in that quote is not directed at everyone else but only at Salemandre.
Edit2: I can see now how I've expressed myself poorly when I say Salemandre said nothing of value when what I'm bothered about is in the way that he expressed himself of his opinion. Which was in my book done clearly in a condescending way.
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Hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted January 11, 2014 08:00 PM |
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Edited by Hippox89 at 20:18, 11 Jan 2014.
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I'm going to hold a HotA LAN party with a couple of friends soon. 2v2. We rarely find the opportunity to arrange such a meeting and play together. Two of the guys are also either completely new to the game or haven't played Heroes 3 in multiplayer, and I'd like to be sure that we wont run into such trouble as misplaces and blocked towns that might confuse and lessen the fun. Starting over because of a blocked town is a dire scenario, and we wont have the time to replay another map. I rather not have rules about identifying misplaces as it'll just confuse them.
I like to ask if anybody would be willing to take a look at a map which I'll generate for the event? I'll be sure to return the favor if you think you'll ever find yourself in a likewise situation which is the point.
I realize that I should have included my own request in the OP instead of waiting as it'd have given a more clear example to a situation when this topic makes sense (for us, at least). Of course, the problem might lie in that fact that there just might not be anybody in our situation or that they don't care about such things. This is fine. It's a relative small community, anyhow. This thread is really about a niche solution that can make sense in specific situations. I didn't make that very clear because my wording does sound very general, admittedly, and most people probably do not play the game on LAN with IRL friends as we mostly do.
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Graenfur
Hired Hero
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posted January 13, 2014 04:08 PM |
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Just upload it here, and I'm sure someone will take a look (maybe I will)
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hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted January 13, 2014 04:39 PM |
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Edited by hippox89 at 16:41, 13 Jan 2014.
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Hey Graenfur.
Okay I'll be sure to do that when I know what kind of map we'll be playing. 
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Graenfur
Hired Hero
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posted January 13, 2014 05:09 PM |
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When playing with brother (he doesn't play often), usually I take a look at the map myself, I do a quick scan at starting and few closest areas, to fix some potential problems so we do not need to restart a new one. Also I make sure that I don't have more/better stuff than he does. He's fine with it 'cause he knows I'm not gonna take advantage of the situation. Yeah, I even sometimes pretend to myself that I don't know a good dwelling is that way or closest castle is not on this road and stuff like that - I do what I would do not knowing xD
We both still have fun and that's the main thing
If you wish, add info of any adjustments that you would want, like same amount of dwellings in starting areas or whatever. I'm all about a fair game (even if random maps are never equal for all the players).
So if I'll have time for your map when you post it, I'll try to do those things.
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