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| Thread: The internet and simulacrum |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 09, 2014 09:09 PM |
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Artu,we still are talking past each other. Modern action movies ARE the essence of simulacrum - not because it's about myths: it's about impossibilities. What those action heroes "do" has NOTHING AT ALL to do with ANY reality; they get shot - but their woulnds are minimal and are not in any way keeping them from anything. The cling to everything, no matter physics. A FANTASY story is somewhat "possible"; an action thriller playing in our world, at our time, supposed to be in OUR world is NOT. It just isn't.
However, it's its own art. Making the impossible look normal, even casual.
Anyway. Trolling is easy to cope with. Ignore the troll. No reason to make a science or philosophy out of it.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 09, 2014 09:29 PM |
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I don't think there is a crucial, structural difference between the story of a prince slaying a giant with a sword and the modern action hero dodging bullets from ten machine guns while jumping off the roof. That is hyperbole and exaggeration, not simulacrum. The purpose of those stories (other than enjoying your time) was to praise bravery, heroism and valor. And semantically, there is a very relevant relationship between the form and the content, those stories lead to an (unrealistic but) substantial conclusion. In fiction, simulacrum is not about what is being narrated, it's about conventional references leading to nowhere, a piece of work imitating a style, look or template to give us an impression of a content that in fact doesn't exist. As I mentioned earlier, Lost is a perfect example, I also think Battlestar Galactica fits the profile in a way but I'm not strongly opinionated about that one.
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fred79
Disgraceful
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posted May 10, 2014 01:55 AM |
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Edited by fred79 at 01:56, 10 May 2014.
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artu said:
You mistake arbitrary connection with deduction. It's not that I don't understand you sometimes, I think your reasons for arriving at some conclusions are unjustified, you are simply way over your head. That has nothing to do with me not understanding people, I can do just fine when they make sense, no matter what their opinion. It has something to do with you being smug over things you shouldn't be, because your opinions are not flawless or truth revealing as you imagine them to be, they are not even close. The only reason you are having this confrontation with me is, while others even don't bother to tell you that and ignore you, I tried to explain to you why your way of looking at things has serious logical flaws. But you don't listen, (and when I say listen, I don't suggest you would completely agree with me on everything if you did), you get defensive and when you do that you apply to smugness and sarcasm as a shield (which is the worst time to use sarcasm) and then it simply gets on my nerve and it turns into a you said/I said quarrel. I am not a person who holds a grudge over such things and I'm really bored and tired discussing about this. Do not address me on such issues, please.
you keep telling me i have logical flaws, while at the same time obviously not reading what i'm saying, or rather, reading it, and not letting it sink in whatsoever(in regards to the 9/11 thread, and this thread in particular). you blatantly ignored questions i posed there, and you refute nearly everything i say, and claim that i am always out of context, as your defense against what i am saying.
if you weren't a person who holds a grudge, then why do you ALWAYS bring up things past in an argument(fred, you made sal leave; you're a drama queen; etc). you are horribly transparent, artu. i won't bother trying to reach you anymore. but do not think for a second that i will allow you to pass any sort of judgement on me or others here, and that you will not have judgement passed on yourself.
like you said, others might ignore you, but i don't. if you want to be left alone, then don't throw judgement around like you are better than anyone else. because you are not.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 10, 2014 02:17 AM |
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All your questions on the 9/11 thread were answered, the thread is there, so are my answers. The logical flaws and inconsistencies of defending a very very improbable conspiracy theory by something as vague as "who had a profit" (while arbitrarily assuming no one on the other side did) has been also explained to you. You haven't even presented something valid enough to refute. And it was you who turned that into something personal by accusing me of calling conspiracy theorists... conspiracy theorists! I never accused you of making Sal leave in an irrelevant thread, in fact I never wrote such a sentence and I have mentioned your drama only when it was part of the problem directly. Don't twist the facts. I'm tired of your paranoid BS popping up in every thread while I try to discuss other things.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 10, 2014 03:11 AM |
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artu said:
All your questions on the 9/11 thread were answered, the thread is there, so are my answers. The logical flaws and inconsistencies of defending a very very improbable conspiracy theory by something as vague as "who had a profit" (while arbitrarily assuming no one on the other side did) has been also explained to you. You haven't even presented something valid enough to refute. And it was you who turned that into something personal by accusing me of calling conspiracy theorists... conspiracy theorists! I never accused you of making Sal leave in an irrelevant thread, in fact I never wrote such a sentence and I have mentioned your drama only when it was part of the problem directly. Don't twist the facts. I'm tired of your paranoid BS popping up in every thread while I try to discuss other things.
outright lies, artu. unless you really believe yourself, which would explain everything, actually.
i could find and post links to what you have said on this forum, to PROVE that you are lying with this post, or completely deluding yourself. but i don't think it will matter one whit, and besides, this isn't the thread for this anyway. you have constantly been a waste of my time and effort in my commmunications with you. and i don't appreciate that. civil discussion is only civil when both parties can come to an understanding of one another. you will never reach any sort of understanding, and anything i say further to you will be pointless. from here on out, i'm just going to point out that you are wrong, if you are. and i'm going to point out when you misunderstand things. but i won't bother explaining why. the more i read what you post, it is pretty evident as to why.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 10, 2014 03:19 AM |
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 10, 2014 03:41 AM |
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case in point.
i said i wouldn't bother; because it won't change your pov. you didn't read what i JUST said(like you always do), or did, and just dismissed it, but continued on with your yapping regardless. you are insufferable.
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 10, 2014 03:52 AM |
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The threads are there. 
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 10, 2014 05:02 AM |
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you can't rile me up, artu. you have been dismissed.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted May 10, 2014 05:20 AM |
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I'm going to give you two one chance to figure out how to get along. Think that's enough?
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 10, 2014 06:40 AM |
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 10, 2014 06:56 AM |
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Exactly. The threads are there for anyone, in case you want to check out anything yourself, Corribus.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 10, 2014 11:05 AM |
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the problem is, i deleted my posts a few days ago in the 9/11 thread, and with just artu's posts remaining, you won't get the entirety of the discussion. it will be a very one-sided view. but i'm sure you can find posts where he blames me for sal leaving. those are all still up.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 10, 2014 06:18 PM |
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The only time I mentioned Sal was when listing people I regularly debated with, I was again replying to some imaginary accusation by you, that I always pick you on debates. During the incident I have made some comments saying Sal did not threaten you (see the pattern here), which is absolutely different than writing "Sal left because of you."
It's not my fault that you delete your own mess but in the 9/11 thread, the part where I posted "a conspiracy theorist would rather believe it is a top secret black op but also somehow the mayor and firemen were informed", you again going personal for no reason about that (I guess realizing the absurdity of what you took seriously made you touchy), and listing completely circumstanial things like attackers' nationality or goverments exploiting the situation for profit, while completely avoiding the very obvious inconsistency, must be still there.
You are either deliberately twisting the facts or unable to interpret them properly. I dont know which is worse.
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OhforfSake
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posted May 28, 2014 01:17 PM |
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 28, 2014 01:37 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 13:51, 28 May 2014.
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edit: i was going to petition the mods to delete this thread, seeing as how it is insulting to anyone artu has ever argued with.
but i realize, that it will serve a much better purpose, in seeing how artu views people who disagree with him. so i say, keep bumping this thread. 
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artu
Promising
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My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted May 28, 2014 02:44 PM |
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Edited by artu at 14:52, 28 May 2014.
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Not this again...
Fred, you made a scene very recently saying you will ignore me from now on and I was actually relieved that I finally was going to be rid of your BS. Instead, you keep trying to jab at me in every thread personally and make sure you end it with some mud-slinging driven by your toxic inferiority complex. I'm starting to realize, keeping a polite manner only encourages you to escalate this, because that's the effect of decency on some sick person, who by his own words, "is trying to fight the darkness inside him and seeks normalcy." I am not here to cure you.
You actually want to keep this thread, in which you derailed the subject by personally attacking me on first post and made completely imaginary accusations, as an example of MY manners! Maybe,you saw some "semi-hidden psychology" in something again, while wearing your global thinker hat. I mean, for someone who defines his own logic as discovering semi-hidden psyhcologies, (paranoia) aren't you acting a little blind when it comes to yourself. I know your cognitive skills are not half as good as what you imagine them to be but I thought you had brains enough to realize, the more you insist on doing this, the more you are embarrassing yourself.
I have no problem with people who disagrees with me as long as they make sense, they don't constantly argument-shift, twist the facts, and act like a first-class douche if they get refuted. You don't argue things to get somewhere, you argue them to convince yourself, you are smart. Then, you fail miserably at linking things properly and blame the rest of the world for not making sense out of your non-sense. Try your niece like you said you would. A child's imagination and naivety is always better suited for that task.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted May 28, 2014 02:45 PM |
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I think it'll be interesting to see if the virtual reality goggles will be able to produce chicken's of the same quality as that of free ranging ones.
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Living time backwards
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted May 28, 2014 04:38 PM |
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i know how much you like having the last word, artu, but this one is ohfor's fault.  i never would have seen your last post here, had that devilish fiend not brought it back from the dead. so blame him, because i didn't revive this insightful thread. 
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OhforfSake
Promising
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Initiate
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posted May 28, 2014 05:19 PM |
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Living time backwards
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