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| Thread: Subfactions |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted July 11, 2014 10:49 AM |
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Okey you win, those look very elite indeed 
I have a different question, which I should've thought of at the start of this thread:
How is your subfaction decided? Is it your starting hero, an option in faction selection, or a choice you have to make in-game (like when you build city hall)?
And will subfaction conversion be possible and how? If you cannot convert subfactions into one another, you might want several creatures to be available in all subfactions (like in Matt's proposal).
If your hero (class) decides subfaction, you can make the faction tactics more different, as you can give the heroes different skill trees.
Just some questions I thought might be relevant for how we want the subfactions to look like 
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted July 11, 2014 12:35 PM |
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COmments to the Haven faction...
Subfaction Choice
While staying in Ashan (Which is not my favorite world) I would say your choice is quite fair. The role of the Church of Elrath could also be that of trying to stay netural between those two duchies, who both want the blessing of the church for their side.
Quest beforehand (did never play H6, still): Resistence is against magic, or effects, or what?
Units
Overall
The renaming structure could be a bit changed now and then  But that is only an opinion...yet if not done, you'd end up having 3 Wolf X, Wolf Y, Wolf Z units.
Iron Guard
Seems quite reasonable, typical haven/castle defensive base unit.
Crossbowman
Also a classic. However, the upgrade seems extraordinarily strong, ignoring at least 50% of any defense...
Vestals#
not my favorite unit, but reasonable as it is, I think.
Commander
Interesting and boring at the same time, I cannot say wether I like that guy.
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zipzopzoobity
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 11, 2014 12:51 PM |
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@steyn
The choice is made like cityhall, and in my idea subfaction conversion is possible. If a town has a different allegiance pledged, you can convert them for a cost, but you won't be able to recruit any units until then.
@jiriki9 yeah resistance is against magic, sorry for not explaining, also I wil balance the Marksman's special now
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted July 11, 2014 01:06 PM |
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zipzopzoobity said:
@steyn
If a town has a different allegiance pledged, you can convert them for a cost, but you won't be able to recruit any units until then.
No units at all or only not the faction specific units? (unless all are of course) It sounds pretty strange to me. If you conquer a town of a different faction you can hire its units, but with a town from your faction but a different subfaction that won't be possible? 
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zipzopzoobity
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 11, 2014 01:18 PM |
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Only the factions specific units you can't hire, and it never really made sense to me for Haven to hire demon units even if they conquered the town. Maybe if they were allies, but eh. Ask me stuff tomorrow Im going to bed.
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted July 11, 2014 03:44 PM |
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Wolf Duchy
Basics sound fine.
Again, Wolf commander sounds pretty boring to me, I'd advic to replace with something more interesting. maybe "Pack leader", "Alpha", "Pack Commander". Or, as you seem you want to bring German terms, maybe a German officer Rank - "Feldwebel", "Hauptmann" or "Kommandant" maybe?
As asoiaf-fan I always liek direwolfs in 
...however I'm not sure I like a wolf with freezing ability...
On to the Cavalry
Quote:
Schildschutz (German for Shield Guard, if anybody got a better german name tell me.)
As a native german speaker I think I might bring my ideas in here...First of all, I never heard the term "Schildschutz" in use, but by the structure of the word, it seems unlikely it describes a person or being. Rather I'd say it sounds like a skill, ability, stance or action in which a person defends ("guards") itself with a shield. Also, to me I'd have translated SChildschutz (froM german to english) as "Shield Defense" or "Shield Protection" rather than Shield Guard and would translate the latter with "Schildwache" or "Schildwächter", or, sounding a bit softer and at the same time more "noble", "Schildgarde". While these 3 still sound a bit infantry-tank-like to me, they feel much more fitting and well-sounding in my ears than Schildschutz. IF you want a more poetic-sounding name you could make up something like "Trutzschild" ("Trutz" being an old, nowadays not really used any more, term for defense or protection. also it would be an allusion to "Trutzburg", which means a castle/stronghold/Fortress which is very well fortified and good to defend and protect the people inside. Of course it is a made-up word, but so is Schildschutz, as far as I know (even google only shows a bunch of companies))
Phew, that was quite some writing, so to sum it up: I'd advice to change Schildschutz, which does not sound like a unit, into either "Schildgarde", "Trutzschild", "Schildwächter" or "Schildwache".
Also...Quote:
The Heavy Calvaryman is a moderatly armoured man
shouldn't he be heavy armoured hwen he is called heavy cavalry?!
The avenger (could'nt help ask wether he looks like Cpt. America, Iron Man or Thor )
Quote:
Avengers are warriors who have been in over 100 battles, an honour granted to few.
That might be a bit optimistic in Ashan just joking, actually I like the description, though I maybe would indeed boost the number to make it more epic
Ingame the Avenger seems to need a more special ability. I mean, yes, he has a boosted retaliation and great defense, possibly making him the absolute counter-attacker, but by the abilities he does not feel really unique to me by now.
All these are only my thoughts of course, but I hope they can be helpful!
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zipzopzoobity
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 11, 2014 10:38 PM |
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Of course they can be helpful! I'm still kinda new to HoMM so any help is great!
I gave the Avenger the ability, avenger, so it could boost his normal attack, but that was the only ability I could think of that would work well, maybe a vengeful ability, so his damage increases the more you attack him. I dunno. Also the avenger looks like a bald Thor, with the beard/goatee
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AM I DEAD YET? -
JonTron, Glorious Ruler,
Leader, and Queen Matriarch
of the bountiful land, Eech.
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Gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted July 11, 2014 10:53 PM |
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Steyn said:
Absolutely not. Looks like you invested quite some time in that thread. It would be a shame if it's forgotten.
Well, the problem would be that each section has passed the 1 year edit limit, so I would either have to remake ALL of it in a bunch of new posts in the thread... Or make a new thread to keep it less confusing. Which might be a little taboo...
Or it occurs to me that I have NO IDEA how long sections like the skills and other core rules will be and that the campaigns should likely come "last" in the set (once all of the mechanics and such are set and working), but that I want to work on that anyway, so I might just make two new threads (one for mechanics, one for story)... If that is allowed. Mods?
For the thread itself... I really think that the random-ish division between units with upgrades and units without them is a little wonky, and that it would play hell with in-game balance (unless done perfectly, units without upgrades would either be too strong so that they can keep up with upgraded creatires of the same tier, or they would lose their effectiveness as time went on and upgraded critters began to out-do them in most or every regard). This is why I like to support systems that promote either one or the other instead of systems that mix both... Though I suppose that, since the system doesn't have numbers to it and this is all theory that this shouldn 't be too much of a problem.
As for the creatures themselves, the Spirit of Vengeance/ Avenger looks... Sort of insane power-wise. The amount of murder the spirit gets is crazy if their ability procs on all allies slain in the battle (+10 damage per slain ally when you have potentially thousands of allies... Is a bit imbalanced). If it's per slain Spirit/ Avenger, it would be a bit better... And if it's per slain stack then that makes it a very reasonable ability and forces the enemies to change tactics.
I like the commander's ability to order the core units around (and change their capabilities when they do so), and I believe it makes for interesting strategies and combos... Over all, I really do like it. Can't wait to see if you do a Free Cities varient...
The core of Haven seems pretty simple. Nothing much to comment on.
As for over-all ideas, I think that you might actually be going a little too far with the possible subfactions... Having 9-10 and keeping them unique from one another is difficult enough for one faction, let alone potentially eight (Haven, Inferno, Necropolis, Sylvan, Academy, Stronghold, Sanctuary, Fortress, Dungeon)... I would suggest trying to focus on a "main three", or three different, unified "aspects" of the overarching faction itself (For Sylvan, this could be a division between Animals, Plants and Elementals, with elves and sprites being the unifying factor, while with Haven you could do something like the Empire, Church and Free cities, etc, etc). You would still get 24 unique factions from creatures alone, while still having enough room to make unique creatures and options between every subfaction.
Just my two pennies.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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zipzopzoobity
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 12, 2014 01:50 AM |
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Oh I'm not making eight different subfactions for Haven, I'm only making three, Wolf Duchy/Rebels, Griffin Duchy/Imperials, and the Church of Elrath. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm also not doing a Free Cities variant, since I think Haven is more the empire, than humans as a whole. But if I did a free cities variant, I would make it semi-focused on gold, since you know, mercenaries, like the Free Cities Commander could hire another 1/5 of a selected stack for a certain amount of gold. I also think the Avenger ability is balanced since most Champion creatures would have at least 150 health, and that the Avenger ability only procs once for the next attack, it doesn't stack. Plus the Avenger/Spirit has low attack.
Example:
Enemy Stack A kills 4 creatures of Ally Stack B
Avenger attacks Enemy Stack C, and does 49-50 damage, instead of 9-10 because of the avenger ability
Enemy Stack A kills 5 creatures of Ally Stack B
Avenger attacks Enemy Stack C, and does 59-60 damage, instead of 9-10 because of the avenger ability
It doesn't stack.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 12, 2014 08:36 AM |
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Gnomes2169 said:
Well, the problem would be that each section has passed the 1 year edit limit, so I would either have to remake ALL of it in a bunch of new posts in the thread... Or make a new thread to keep it less confusing. Which might be a little taboo...
Please, it's nearly three years old, I really don't think anyone would call you out for it.
Quote:
Or it occurs to me that I have NO IDEA how long sections like the skills and other core rules will be and that the campaigns should likely come "last" in the set (once all of the mechanics and such are set and working), but that I want to work on that anyway, so I might just make two new threads (one for mechanics, one for story)... If that is allowed. Mods?
Or reserve multiple posts, that's common enough that I doubt anyone would object.
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Gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted July 12, 2014 05:35 PM |
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@Matt: Problem with reserving multiple posts in this case: ... I would need to reserve at least 18.  That's... a bit over the limit of consecutive posts you can make (I know that people can help out with that, but still, at least 2 pages of nothing but "Derp post reserved" is a lot to grind through), and them campaign posts would be at least half of them (probably more). Which is why I think multiple threads would likely be for the best, splitting the story and the mechanics between them.
And @Zipzopzoopzoopityzoo: Avenger might still be an ability that is ratcheted up to 11, because of the following situation...
Stack A kills 230 creatures in stack B (a very easy number to reach for core units and core unit murder). On the same turn, stack D kills another 125 creatures in stack F, and stack G kills 15 units in stack H. Then the Avenger gets to move, and attacks stack C for (230+125+15+9 or 10=359 or 340 damage each Avenger), likely causing stack C to vaporize completely because the Avenger lightly sneezed on them. It's still a very, very powerful ability that you should take another look at...
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Jiriki9
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Altar Dweller
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posted July 12, 2014 05:55 PM |
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Quote:
Or it occurs to me that I have NO IDEA how long sections like the skills and other core rules will be and that the campaigns should likely come "last" in the set (once all of the mechanics and such are set and working), but that I want to work on that anyway, so I might just make two new threads (one for mechanics, one for story)... If that is allowed. Mods?
Maybe use documents, like here?
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Gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted July 13, 2014 08:41 AM |
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Hmmm, documents are good for consolidation and backing things up, but posts are better for navigation... Porque los na dos? (Why not both in spanish, probably spelled wrong ) Keeping things in posts helps people find things easier (and helps me find/ edit typos better over-all), so I definitely want to use them, but after that, consolidating things into a few word documents might be a good idea.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted July 13, 2014 10:52 AM |
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So keep the basics in post, but use documents for detail, f.e. keep the name-only lineups and brief descriptions of the other faction stuff in the posts, but for unit abilities and more detailed explanation of heroes and faction skills, use documents.
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zipzopzoobity
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 13, 2014 05:47 PM |
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@gnomes This is actually my fault since I didn't clarify, but the damage added through the Avenger ability is added AFTER the regular combat, so a stack of multiple Avengers would deal damage, then Avenger damage is added before the enemy retaliates. So not 340 damage for each Avenger/Spirit, 340 damage is added after the Avenger/Spirit attacks.
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Gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted July 17, 2014 04:47 PM |
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Ahhhhh, alright... yeah, that's quite a bit better. Carry on.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted July 18, 2014 01:17 PM |
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If you search for awesome stag-monsters from mythology/folklore you don't have to search far.
The awesome Sianach and Paiyuk will help you, the are evil in their true myths, but that can be changed.
The Sianach.
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