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| Thread: We need a mod for Spell Balancing |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted September 27, 2014 10:32 PM |
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Edited by phe at 17:55, 04 Dec 2014.
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I've noticed that it would be easier to calculate mass spell casts on hit points sum.
So this could look like this:
Hit Point col can be adjusted to map size by multiplication.
Intermediate values above basic cost would be acounted from this figures. (for Shield --> 5SP for 3000HP, 6SP for 5000HP, 15SP for 25000HP)
From these sums reducing bonus of Mages and Magic Elementals would be deducted.
To these sums Silver Pegasi extra cost would be added.
Flying creatures wouldn't be counted to total cost of Fly spell casting.
Floating and flying creatures wouldn't be counted to total cost of Water Walk spell casting.
This way of counting spell casting would require to make possibility to cast spell not only for every stack but also for single or few.
Like I mentioned before classes of heroes like: Cleric, Druid, Wizard, Heretic, Necromancer, Warlord, Battle Mage, Witch, Elementalist could have bonus of reduction of spell casting (for example 25% of total spell casting cost but no less than initial cost). Heroes of speciality in particular spell could have further cost reduction bonuses.
Experience in casting for offensive spells, Cure, Animate Dead, Resurrection, Sacrifice and Summon Elementals --> for every 10 casts of spell extra 1% effect increase
For other spells increased effect depending on number of casts (for every spell different).
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Hero_Of_Light
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted September 28, 2014 09:58 PM |
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I for one would change sacrifice effect. Why destroy one of your troops to resurrect another when there's a cheaper and more efficient spell for that (namely resurrection).
Sacrifice could be made into this:
Sacrifice a creature stack and make quarter of its formula into fire damage on an enemy unit. Formula could be like this:
Basic: Fire Damage = (power + base health + 3)*number /4
Advanced: Fire Damage = (power + base health + 6)*number /4
Expert: Fire Damage = (power + base health + 10)*number /4
I would definitely use a spell like this. It will make sense to sacrifice any number of Imps to destroy even a small number of 7th level creatures.
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Not idly do the leaves of Lorien fall.
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Sal
Famous Hero
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posted September 28, 2014 10:09 PM |
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Sacrifice is great for epic battles, where high numbers make resurrect inefficacy. Sacrifice is also a tactical choice, as it allows sacrificing crap creatures at specific moment then get a ready to strike valuable stack. With resurrect this is much slower and progressive.
It is a very underrated spell still and a few only profited from it, in the right situation. It is also a spell required to end almost all epic SoD/RoE maps, where AI outnumbers you several times.
And sacrifice is also a spell AI knows how and when to use, surprisingly. At least one spell casted at right time, I woudn't drop it.
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted September 28, 2014 10:11 PM |
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Edited by phe at 23:48, 28 Sep 2014.
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Hero_Of_Light said:
I for one would change sacrifice effect. Why destroy one of your troops to resurrect another when there's a cheaper and more efficient spell for that (namely resurrection).
Expert Sacrifice is powerful. It resurrects 200% HP of sacrificed unit.
When you sacrifice large stacks effect is outstanding in comparison to Resurrection. Unfortunately HP bonus from experience of sacrificed stack is not calculated  .
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Khadras
Famous Hero
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posted September 29, 2014 08:10 AM |
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Try ReMagic Rus
Hi! Try ReMagic Rus from http://wforum.heroes35.net/showthread.php?tid=4096
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted October 11, 2014 10:07 PM |
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Edited by phe at 17:50, 04 Dec 2014.
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Spells could be like that (more powerful after some castings):
Spells used on Basic Level become advanced after 50 castings and expert after 100 castings
Some heroes may start game with some experience in casting
Shield: (initially 30%) bonuses +1% after 50, 100, 175, 250, 350, 500, 700, 1000, 1333, 1666, 2000, 2333, 2666, 3000, 3500, 4000, 4500, 5000, 6000 etc castings
Stone Skin: extra +1 defense after 0, 100, 175, 250, 350, 500, 700, 1000, 1333, 1666, 2000, 2333, 2666, 3000, 3500, 4000,4500, 5000, 6000 etc castings
Bless: +1 extra damage after 50, 100, 175, 250, 350, 500, 700, 1000, 1333, 1666, 2000, 2333, 2666, 3000, 3500, 4000, 4500, 5000, 6000 etc castings
Bloodlust: +1 extra damage after 50, 100, 175, 250, 350, 500, 700, 1000, 1333, 1666, 2000, 2333, 2666, 3000, 3500, 4000, 4500, 5000, 6000 etc castings
Haste: +1 extra speed after 100, 200, 400, 700, 1000, 1500, 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000 etc castings
Slow: -1 extra speed after 100, 200, 400, 700, 1000, 1500, 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000 etc castings; enables to stop unit after 1000 castings
Curse: -1 damage every 50 castings (50-->500), every 100 (500-->1000), every 200 (1000-->2000), every 500 (3000--> 5000), every 1000 (>5000)
Dispell: after some casting remove all benefitial spells from enemy and all negative from hero's army
Cure: + 1% every 10 castings; full HP restore after 1000 castings
Fortune: every 10 castings +1% damage if luck occurs (201% damage instead of 200%), after some castings ignores luck penalty from devils and others
Precision: +1 ranged attack after 50, 100, 175, 250, 350, 500, 700, 1000, 1333, 1666, 2000, 2333, 2666, 3000, 3500, 4000, 4500, 5000, 6000 etc castings; every 1000 castings (1% chance for critical shot 10% of enemy stack, but only if there are >=shooters than 10% of the size of the enemy stack, if less so many dead enemies as your shooters (one shot one kill; shooters have to be at Ace battle experience, else critical shot effect does not work))
Weakness: -1 attack after 50, 100, 175, 250, 350, 500, 700, 1000, 1333, 1666, 2000, 2333, 2666, 3000, 3500, 4000, 4500, 5000, 6000 etc castings
Air Shield: + 1% every 20 castings (51% less damage from ranged instead of 50% on expert)
Dispruting Ray: -1 defence after 50, 100, 175, 250, 350, 500, 700, 1000, 1333, 1666, 2000, 2333, 2666, 3000, 3500, 4000, 4500, 5000, 6000 etc castings; after 1000 10% chance of reduction enemy's defence to 0
Water Walk: bonus to water walk every 10 casts +1% movement over water (however needs casting cost for all troops in army even floating and flying ones, requires choose between two types of spell by casting (do you want to cast with bonus or without but less cost) )
Mirth: After some castings ignores morale penalty from ghost dragons and others; 1% chance for extra move in the round, if moral occurred in the round already
Forgetfullness: every 100 castings every stack influenced will have 1% chance that unit will loose mind and move to random place in the range of movement --> even attack any stack within range of movement if on random field to go will be stack; also destroy enemy's shots (-1) every 50 castings like in TEW4
Misfortune: enables bad luck by attack of enemy unit causing;if bad luck occurs 25% less damage after 100 castings, 50% after 1000 castings
Prayer: +1 extra attack, defence and speed after 100, 200, 400, 700, 1000, 1500, 2000, 3000 etc
Slayer: +1 extra attack against beasts and 7th or higher level creature after: 50, 100, 175, 250, 350, 500, 700, 1000, 1500 etc
Frenzy: + 1% every 10 castings
Fire Shield: every 50 casts + 1% (11% instead of initial 10%)
Fly: bonus to fly every 10 casts +1% movement by fly (however needs casting cost for all troops in army even flying ones, (do you want to cast with bonus or without but less cost) ))
Berserk: after 100 castings affected creature will not atack hero's unit; two or more Berserks at once after some castings like in TEW4
Clone: creates clone with experience of cloned stack but only every 10 cast 1% of experience to clone, by 100 casts 10% exerience, by 1000 casts 100% experience or two or more clones instead of one; or enable cloning of enemy stack
CounterStrike: bonus to retalation 1% more damage by every 10 casts; endless retaliation after 1000 casts
Sacrifice: + 1% every 10 castings
Sorrow: 10% chance that if sorrow ocuurs, bad morale will last for 2 rounds; 1% chance for every unit in stack separetely that it will commit suicide if bad morale occurs
Magic Arrow: +1% every 10 castings, but this bonus is true damage (ignores enemy's immunity for magic)
Ice Bolt: +1% damage every 10 castings, (ignores enemy's immunity for water magic); 1% chance to freeze enemy after 100 castings; end every next 100 castings + 1%
Frost Ring: +1% damage every 10 castings, (ignores enemy's immunity for water magic); 1% chance to freeze enemy after 100 castings; end every next 100 castings + 1%; can affect also inside the ring after 100 castings (optional by casting), + 1 radius after 200 castings
Lightning: +1% damage every 10 castings, but this bonus is true lightnings (ignores enemy's immunity for air magic); after 100 castings spell becomes Small Chain Lighting and affects one more
unit; 2 more after 500
Death Ripple: +1% every 10 castings, but this bonus is true damage (ignores enemy's immunity for earth magic); after 10 castings 1% chance to kill one creature in every stack separetely; so after 1000 castings it kills 1 unit in every enemy stack; after 2000 castings it destroys 2 units in every stack
Destroy Undead: +1% every 10 castings, but this bonus is true damage (ignores enemy's immunity for air magic); after 10 castings 1% chance to kill one creature in every stack separetely; end every next 10 castings + 1%,after 200 castings the spell becomes Destroy Evil and affects all evil units not only undead
Fire Ball: +1% damage every 10 castings, but this bonus is true fire (ignores enemy's immunity for fire magic), +1 radius after 100 castings; +2 radius after 500 castings
Inferno: +1% damage every 10 castings, but this bonus is true fire (ignores enemy's immunity for fire magic)
Meteor Shower: +1% every 10 castings, but this bonus is true meteorites (ignores enemy's immunity for earth magic), +1 radius after 100 castings; +2 radius after 1000 castings
Chain Lighting: +1% damage every 10 castings, but this bonus is true lightings (ignores enemy's immunity for air magic); after 100 castings can affect only enemy units; after 100 castings +1
attacked unit ;+ 2 after 500; +3 after 1000; if it don't find next creature to strike it will strike again previous units
Armageddon: +1% damage every 10 castings, but this bonus is true fire (ignores enemy's immunity for fire magic)
Implosion: +1% every 10 castings, but this bonus is true damage (ignores enemy immunity for earth magic)
Other solution:
Spells affiliated with Fire and Death could get this 1% bonus every 9 casting for Knight/Warrior heroes' classes and every 6 castings for Wizard/Necromancer heroes' classes.
Other "good" spells would get bonus every 10 castings for Knight/Warrior heroes' classes and every 7 castings for Wizard/Necromancer heroes' classes.
Life and Freedom Bestiary
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted October 12, 2014 02:21 AM |
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Sal said:
phe said:
Early battles would hardly change because of small stacks in our army and small casting experience (no bonuses) so existing RMG's maps would be ok, in later battles too.
No. This is where MP experience plays. When you don't play online, you extrapolate from single experience, where there is no hurry and the game is sugar coated.
Take some of the most played heroes in MP: Shakti and Ivor. With your spell costs, a godly hero as Shakti now will be unable to haste his trogs. While a hero as Ivor will have a huge advantage because few gran elves but much better units.
We talk about starting armies here.
Factions as tower, where the lvl 1 units were the main force for week 1, will be penalized. Factions as fortress where you get wiverns day 2 will shine.
So there must be adjustments to your theories, not based only on level or number, but also on HP, attack, damage and speed.
if creatures have a power rating like in H5, that could be used for the calculations.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted October 12, 2014 12:13 PM |
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There is a fight value in H3, but not always relevant.
To put it simple but still friendly: Phe's thoughts are interesting and certainly some valid game improvements are to develop from, but ok: now that you wrote them down, start coding then testing and see what can be done.
Because if you write them down and expect someone else to do the material work, then you lose your time. This is long and hard work and the demand for changing the spells Phe's style is not enough shared among fans to have modders start a hundred hours project on.
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted October 12, 2014 06:24 PM |
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It is dilemma for me if to start intricate ERM learning and coding which can become obsolate when VCMI will be ready or to spend time on focusing on ideas and playing. That was only because topic was raised. I hope it will be helpful for somebody.
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P4R4D0X0N
Famous Hero
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posted October 12, 2014 06:50 PM |
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I would like to see damage buffed for most Fire spells and adding some new spells for water and fire magic especially in higher ranks lvl4+5.
Maybe some effects could be nice like:
fire
-no retaliate for this unit and duration
-deal damage over time in the same area (inferno like but over 2-3 rounds, to force enemy to move)
water
-vampirism ability
-ressurrect a ammount of lvl1-3 creatures over 2-3 rounds
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malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted December 04, 2014 10:30 PM |
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Edited by malax83 at 22:42, 04 Dec 2014.
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I do not completely agree with Phe style. I mean it s a very good idea but it s too hype, i would prefer to improve all spells in a magic scholl than one specific spell. Basic, Advanced and expert could allow level spell and wisdom school could be cancel.. It s too hype for me cause you can t anticipate the progression power of each spell regarding size maps, .. Giving bonus to all spells in magic school close the magic school with the factions, then you can rework the process of percentage chance of spells to appear in mageguild.
Even if you do it well, i m sure the balance with might heroes isn t so easy to do. These changes are welcome if a community testers work on it as it has been already say. Spells aren t not so bad in SOD, community has to say which are :
- useless, so need a complete rework
- too usefull, who said mass spell are imba..
- need a little change or need nothing at all.
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phe
Famous Hero
Life and Freedom
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posted December 05, 2014 04:36 PM |
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Edited by phe at 16:44, 05 Dec 2014.
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malax83 said:
I do not completely agree with Phe style. I mean it s a very good idea but it s too hype, i would prefer to improve all spells in a magic scholl than one specific spell. Basic, Advanced and expert could allow level spell and wisdom school could be cancel.. It s too hype for me cause you can t anticipate the progression power of each spell regarding size maps, .. Giving bonus to all spells in magic school close the magic school with the factions, then you can rework the process of percentage chance of spells to appear in mageguild.
These are three pillars of my magic system:
-increase of spell cast cost depending on amount of units affected
-spell experience calculated from amount of particular spell castings
-powerful magic invoked by setting appropriate amount of magic creatures like sorceresses and wizards in certain formation on battle map
They seem to me quite natural. To cast spell on more and more creatures requires more mana.
We get experience in spell casting so the spells becoming better.
They can exist separetely or silmulatnously with each other and with other bonuses like yours or this one from TEW4 or some others.
Giving bonus to every spell in particular magic schools gives sometimes bonus to spells you seldom or never used.
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malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted December 05, 2014 06:17 PM |
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phe said:
Giving bonus to every spell in particular magic schools gives sometimes bonus to spells you seldom or never used.
The scale of power for all spells is pretty huge and the game would interesting in solo but i doubt about multiplayer interest. I never played MMO but various gameplay repetability is pretty imbalanced until you re focusing on one or two spells. My way of thinking has been fashionned by ADD so i can imagine a smaller scale with some specific schools, possibly in heroes 7 magics schools are studying nearby.
I look often at Hota thread, they don t need ideas... they are unfortenately deaf to advices but good purpose as allow specific spells related to the size of the map(dimension door, fly etc...).
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted December 05, 2014 06:38 PM |
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They are not deaf, they have a programming approach. You just throw some ideas you got in the last 10 minutes, but coding such magic systems would take thousand hours of work. This is why I think that anyone asking for his ideas to be heard should first work on implementing them then show the result. I already warned that anything written here has zero chances to be implemented by somebody else, but if you enjoy speculating, that's fine.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted December 05, 2014 06:53 PM |
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There is a big difference "I couldn't sleep at night and started to pull random ideas out of my butt" and "I have thoroughly analyzed the problem, carefully designed system and proposed solution that can be implemented".
Or, in other words, not every idea is a good idea. Most of ideas people have are bad.
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The future of Heroes 3 is here!
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