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| Thread: Regarding the Magic System |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Storm-Giant
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posted November 21, 2014 01:04 PM |
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mvassilev said:
TDL said:
Apart from duplicate spells, H4 had pretty unique spell schools, mind you.
The spells in the schools were unique enough, but the skills for specializing in the school were repetitive. You had a skill to learn spells, a skill to cast them better, a skill to get mana, and something unique (and not always entirely unique, as Charm was very similar to Diplomacy).
Right, but that is a flaw of the Skill System, not the Magic School.
And with H5 skillwheel already showing the way to have variety of builds with even the same Magic School, that's isn't a issue at all 
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JoonasTo
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posted November 21, 2014 03:25 PM |
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Quote:
The spells in the schools were unique enough
There were more than enough duplicates in the schools.
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Storm-Giant
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posted November 21, 2014 03:41 PM |
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We know, Joonas.
TDL said:
Apart from duplicate spells
But I'd say some of them were pretty unique. Giant/Dragon Strength on your level 4 creature = FUN.
Not to mention H4 did improve A LOT the Magic System overall compared to H3. Getting rid of Dimension Door, having (back) separated mass versions of spells, town portal only traveling you to the nearest town (so no abuse), Haste/Slow are important but not as much as in H3...and so many combinations possible 
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mvassilev
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posted November 21, 2014 09:48 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
Not to mention H4 did improve A LOT the Magic System overall compared to H3. Getting rid of Dimension Door, having (back) separated mass versions of spells, town portal only traveling you to the nearest town (so no abuse), Haste/Slow are important but not as much as in H3...and so many combinations possible
YMMV. I thought all of those were ways H4 was worse than H3. 
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alcibiades
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of Gold Dragons
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posted November 21, 2014 10:34 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
Not to mention H4 did improve A LOT the Magic System overall compared to H3. Getting rid of Dimension Door, having (back) separated mass versions of spells, town portal only traveling you to the nearest town (so no abuse), Haste/Slow are important but not as much as in H3...and so many combinations possible
Sorry but just have to say that separating mass spells into different spells was not a good thing for me, and having no regular Town Portal is for me a direct game-breaker and what prevented H5 from ever achieving true success.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 21, 2014 10:38 PM |
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alcibiades said:
having no regular Town Portal is for me a direct game-breaker
What do you mean by that ?
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alcibiades
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posted November 21, 2014 11:20 PM |
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Galaad said:
alcibiades said:
having no regular Town Portal is for me a direct game-breaker
What do you mean by that ?
The the lack of ability to transport yourself from one town to another but having to run from one end of the map and then back again manually completely destroyed any purpose or fun of playing large maps for me.
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verriker
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posted November 22, 2014 12:41 AM |
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alcibiades said:
The the lack of ability to transport yourself from one town to another but having to run from one end of the map and then back again manually completely destroyed any purpose or fun of playing large maps for me.
that's interesting lol, very surprised to hear this from you who I think usually knows what he's talking about design-wise,
I'd say the exact opposite: the H6 dumbass town portal feature where you can just hop and skip from town to town, collecting up all your forces with ease, annihilated the strategy of the game and completely trivialized the purpose of having a large adventure map
so I think Ubihole and Ubilimb should have aimed to make the "empty" space between towns more dynamic and interesting to reduce boredom, instead of lazily cutting out that aspect of actual travel altogether, that's just falling asleep at the wheel as a game designer IMO lol
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TDL
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The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted November 22, 2014 12:56 AM |
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Edited by TDL at 01:00, 22 Nov 2014.
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I also feel that having town portals between towns is like having quest markers on hardcore RPGs or fast travel - a totally unnecessary feature. Caravans should be used to transform your army across the map at an increased speed (which should also be altered with your level, arties, etc.) but definitely not a town portal. Total balance breaker. There is a reason mapmakers add slowing terrains, natural barriers, etc.
Also, it is more or less a mapmaker's duty to take care of these things and add monoliths if need be.
Repetitive skill trees in H4 were due to overall imbalance. Magic schools themselves on the other hand had very very many things going on, and it really made sense to invest into your magic spell school to have the spells strong and not have them repeat over the levels. I'd agree that H5 improved on this aspect by adding perks, but other than that, the magic was strong in that one 
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Storm-Giant
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posted November 22, 2014 01:10 AM |
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alcibiades said:
Sorry but just have to say that separating mass spells into different spells was not a good thing for me
How so? All I see are advantages:
- More balanced. By being different entities, their Mana cost can be different, and with the mass version of the spell being a couple of levels higher, no longer spamming mass level 1 spells is the key to victory 90% of the battles. All of this helps into balance so much.
- You can use both single and mass version of the spell (unlike H3).
alcibiades said:
and having no regular Town Portal is for me a direct game-breaker and what prevented H5 from ever achieving true success.
Sorry but no. As much as I abused it in H3 (who hasn't...), mass town portal to the city you choose is boring, makes defending towns way too easy (if you scout ahead enough, which you should!). If you are going to explore that area to pick that relic from those Black Dragons, there should be some risks.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted November 22, 2014 01:11 AM |
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H6 town portals were a huge disaster, but I agree that some kind of town portals should exist.
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 22, 2014 01:30 AM |
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Edited by Galaad at 00:38, 23 Nov 2014.
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Verriker, I share so much your feelings and am a huge fan of your cynicism.
Alcibiades, I fail to see how large maps can ever be boring. On the contrary, they are the richest ones regarding the hero builds within the random system. Each of your hero won't necessarily have an optimal build, but each will have their own strengths and weaknesses. Large and larger maps promotes that, instead of the “tried-and-true but somewhat boring super-hero strategy”.
I enjoyed in H3 that you needed to take the specific path of a powerful Wizard to benefit from such advantage as Town Portal on the map, this coupled with Dimension Door and XL is traveled with an ease that gets its merits only to have survived so late in the game as your class makes you weak and painfully slow in early game (specifically thinking about Tower for this example). One thing I always loved within the franchise is that you get different kingdoms alongside different heroes, different battles, different strategies accordingly. The attempt in H6 of reuniting everything under one and only uber-hero is for me not only not-understandable, but also not legitimate, as it is literally breaking the game mechanism originally provided. Having a regular town portal alongside non-random skills means breaking the game's core, it should be renamed Hero of Might and Magic then, and I disagree with that conception with all my heart.
It switchs a TBS -with little RPG elements- game into more of a RPG game -which happens to also be turn-based.
To me one of the best flavor of the game specifically resides in this particularly way of playing, and when I see the connection between town portals and non-random skills, I object abruptly.
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verriker
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posted November 22, 2014 01:43 AM |
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Galaad said:
Verriker, I share so much your feelings and am a huge fan of your cynicism.
likewise Galaad  , tbh I think my posts at HC are too sour usually, but after H6 I think fans have to be ruthless in calling out silly stuff (not saying you're silly Alc, just in general)
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GenyaArikado
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posted November 23, 2014 04:37 AM |
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I like town portal. They should keep it.
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mvassilev
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posted November 23, 2014 08:26 PM |
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Seconded.
In general, large maps aren't very fun to play for me, because there's so much to manage, and too much hopping from castle to castle as one of them is captured, then while you recapture it, some other castle is captured, and so on.
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verriker
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posted November 23, 2014 08:54 PM |
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yeah guys you're right, the actual strategy part of this strategy game series is just too boring and taxing for me,
who could be bothered, let's cut it all down to reductive combat tactics and roleplaying elements instead lol
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Stevie
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posted November 23, 2014 09:01 PM |
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Would you like your own teleport spell to go right in front of the enemy's town Mvass? Nah, cuz then you'd have to conquer it... I know! Why don't we add a spell so you can conquer it too?
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted November 23, 2014 09:10 PM |
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It is not that hard to keep a castle protected while your strongest hero is gone conquering the world.
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mvassilev
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posted November 23, 2014 09:18 PM |
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Yes, I want to be able to avoid the annoying and frustrating parts of the game. Is that so wrong?Stevie said:
Would you like your own teleport spell to go right in front of the enemy's town Mvass? Nah, cuz then you'd have to conquer it... I know! Why don't we add a spell so you can conquer it too?
There's no need to be rude, Stevie.Galaad said:
It is not that hard to keep a castle protected while your strongest hero is gone conquering the world.
It can be, if the enemy hero has a large enough army and you only have one week's worth of units in your town, or if you need to use your town's units to reinforce your hero's losses.
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Pawek_13
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Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted November 23, 2014 09:26 PM |
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Galaad said:
It is not that hard to keep a castle protected while your strongest hero is gone conquering the world.
As long as it was not conquered a week before the next siege chances for defending the town are quite high, especially when the city is fully developed.
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