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| Thread: Magic Resistance or Protection? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 20, 2014 08:41 AM |
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Poll Question:
Magic Resistance or Protection?
A simple yet important poll. Do you prefer the mechanic of magic resistance(chance to completely resist an enemy spell) or magic protection(enemy spell power reduction)? From a balance perspective the latter is more balanced but after playing H6 I would also call it more bland. For me the feeling of excitement in blocking an enemy spell could not be compensated by the feeling of safety in knowing that my spells will always work. I also liked playing with the odds of whether it was a good idea to cast a direct spell or an indirect one against opponents with resistance. Decisions decisions  What about you?
I am not giving an option for both as the real question is whether you would like the old magic resistance to return or not. A heroes game with magic resistance will likely also feature magic protection after all.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted November 20, 2014 08:58 AM |
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Is it necessary to prioritise one over the other?
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted November 20, 2014 09:10 AM |
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Elvin said:
I am not giving an option for both as the real question is whether you would like the old magic resistance to return or not. A heroes game with magic resistance will likely also feature magic protection after all.
Shouldn't the option for Magic Resistance also incorporate it then?
In any case, I am voting for Magic Resistance, with a chance a spell doesn't affect a creature at all; I can't click that button, however  .
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted November 20, 2014 10:13 AM |
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Oh god, those dwarves so much fun in H3. RESISTED.
But protection is much better in balance, yes. It also makes more sense in general. Heroes has stacks so protection is the number of singular units in the stack that resisted the spell. It makes no sense for 379 dwarves to all resist the implosion but rather every fifth dwarf resists the implosion. Protection is a much better indication.
One point needs to be addressed though. How does protection affect status effects? Like slow. Does it get a minor reduction in the effect? Because if slow is -1 speed, how do you reduce that?
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted November 20, 2014 10:54 AM |
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I say- use both, like in H3
Give some units Magic Resistance (like Dwarves etc.) and some units Magic Protection (like Golems). Some could also have both!
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 20, 2014 11:05 AM |
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Like I said, the question is if you liked magic resistance or not. Back in H3 times such a question was not relevant but H6 decided to simplify things and keep one form of anti-magic. With that in mind, do you like that kind of simplicity or would you like things to be as they used to?
Back in the day I had suggested something similar to what Joonas said, a chance for resistance that is more frequent than 15% but doesn't reduce the spell effectiveness by 100% either. Flavour-wise, I really miss chance based triggers
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted November 20, 2014 11:07 AM |
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Elvin said:
I really miss chance based triggers
You would wouldn't you
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted November 20, 2014 11:14 AM |
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Elvin Luck needs a way to express itself 
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted November 20, 2014 11:18 AM |
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both have their appeals and weaknesses. sure, protection is really boring and doesn't really feel as impactful (it's just sort of there) but resistance in h3 could be insanely annoying if not outright terrible in it's "all-or-nothing" deal. there was, however, few things as satisfying as seeing your own creature just ignore a spell that might've otherwise killed them, but still. too much.
i agree a mix would be best where resistance doesn't block all damage or effects, but a percentage or something but still has a random chance to trigger. protection just isn't very satisfying as it was h6.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 20, 2014 01:12 PM |
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You know how magic resistances work in MMX - Legacy? Yea, that.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted November 20, 2014 01:56 PM |
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I really like how H4 dealt with this issue. In H4, there is only magic resistance, but it works in both ways: x% of resisting harmful effect spells OR x% of direct damage spells reduction.
It's a good compromise between fairness and fun, IMO.
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supertommy
Known Hero
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posted November 20, 2014 02:20 PM |
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I definitely prefer Magic Resistance. I think it made combat a lot more fun.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted November 20, 2014 02:36 PM |
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Yes, bring it back! Being able to not be hit by a spell is always a great feeling! This satissfaction is unbielieveable, en equal to your opponent getting a bad morale...
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted November 20, 2014 03:22 PM |
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Magic protection is definitely more balanced but yes, Magic resistance is more fun as it gives magic player a doubt if he should cast a spell on that target at all.
However, I don't know if H7 will follow the steps of H6 in terms of magic heroes, buffing type of units with magic damage and giving them equal chances to fight against might heroes in the mid/late game.
In previous games, might heroes were stronger than magic heroes quite a bit, and especially now that we are back to classical 1 unit/hero per turn gameplay, resisting whole spell could be way too strong against magic heroes. In H5 we had an ATB bar, so naturally your hero will play soon enough anyway, and it could happen that your hero will play 1-3 times before one unit even gets its turn.
So, it really depends on how they do it, if it is closer to H6, then magic resistance is fine, however if we are closer to H3/H5 in terms of gameplay, magic protection is more than enough imo.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 20, 2014 06:13 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 18:15, 20 Nov 2014.
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My problem with the H6 Magic Defense system was that it wasn't responsive at all. In theory, it's a system that would add an additional element of strategy in the game as there would be more thought regarding "should I use this spell or magic attack creature on a creature with high Magic defense or not". In practice, atleast I never really thought of this in combat because there weren't really any indications that I lost out on using magic on creatures with high magic defense.
So if that's the alternative, I'd rather go back to the old system where Magic Resistance and other abilities determined how much protection a certain creature had against spells. Atleast in H5 I refrained from using spells on creatures like Golems and Gargoyles. I do like the strategic potential of the H6 system though and if made more responsive, like having the user interface actually show how much magic damage is reduced by the amount of magic defense, I'd prefer that.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted November 20, 2014 10:45 PM |
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xerox said:
like having the user interface actually show how much magic damage is reduced by the amount of magic defense, I'd prefer that.
It did.
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Tiptoe_McGuffy
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 21, 2014 12:00 AM |
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Heroes V had both - resistance as a hero perk (or full resistance as creature ability), and protection from artifacts and an perk.
Anyway, I love having resistance be an option, but I agree it can be really frustrating and turn the game too easily.
So, I just had an idea though - make irresistible magic an activated ability for heroes. I have two possible manifestations figured out.
1.) One time per battle ability - ignores all resistance and protection, or
2.) As many times as needed, ignores resistance, but costs double mana. (Like empowered spells) It costs double mana whether it would have been resisted or not, so you have to decide whether it's worth the risk.
What do you guys think?
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"An Elf can take out a Ranger
any day of the week, but they
prefer to do it on weekends so
they can stay up late and catch
a show afterwards." -H2 tavern
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted November 21, 2014 10:49 PM |
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Well, I'm perfectly fine with magic protection being in the game as well, like in H3-H5, but yeah, I support Magic Resistance. That feeling of pure rage whenever my implosion is resisted by Elvin's arcane archers... it's priceless.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: if a video game never causes you to say, "I hate this game!", then it's not a game you could ever love.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 21, 2014 11:15 PM |
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blizzardboy said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again: if a video game never causes you to say, "I hate this game!", then it's not a game you could ever love.
#blizzyinsights
Keep saying that, it's so brilliant people might not even get it. 
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Minion
Legendary Hero
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posted November 22, 2014 12:06 AM |
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I'd want both to be incorporated. I agree H6 was bland in that aspect too, sadly.
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"These friends probably started using condoms after having produced the most optimum amount of offsprings. Kudos to them for showing at least some restraint" - Tsar-ivor
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