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| Thread: It's raining data, hallelujah. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT» |
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 06, 2014 09:33 PM |
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It's raining data, hallelujah.
What do you think about the current information flow that has reached a peak never seen before, especially after the widespread ownership of smart phones and tablets? Do you think that it's hindering actual human connection and communication? Do you think it distorts a more refined, focused level of receiving knowledge with bombardment of junk information? Or is it simply producing a new type of society with different means of social and educational norms? Platon lived in times when written word was just turning into something common (at least among the elites) and his reaction was that writing was becoming more harmful than beneficial because it weakened the memory and was never as effective as oral speech in terms of presenting an argument where you were in an interactive communication with your peers. Ironically, we know that only because it was written down. Are we in a similar position when we find it awkward that younger people constantly peek on their cell phones even in the middle of a film or dinner talk. Is it only strange to us or is the constant shattering of concentration really problematic? Is it even accurate to define it as shattering of concentration?
When was the last time you had spent an entire day without checking out the internet, your mail, Facebook messages etc? Do you often watch the news or read the papers presented to you by professional journalists or do you rather hear it on some tweet when something happens? Is social media a platform of disinformation and hear-say or is it more reliable because it is not controlled or influenced by the government and big corporations? If both, how do you separate which is when?
Would you take your smartphone with you and keep connected to the net if you were on a romantic weekend holiday with your lover on a paradise island?
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OhforfSake
Promising
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Initiate
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posted December 06, 2014 09:52 PM |
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Younger people? Where I'm from I see it from all ages.
I understand that it's an easy way for parents and grandparents to be able to communicate with their children even when they aren't home, that's a big plus in my opinion.
I'll say the problem has always been one of commitment and moderation, any technology offers more than what anyone may have be barking for and the only one to prioritize and commit is ourselves. But it's very easy to just go auto-pilot and see time pass away.
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Would you take your smartphone with you and keep connected to the net if you were on a romantic weekend holiday with your lover on a paradise island?
Are you still mad about it? 
Seriously though, I got afraid to be locked in when I was about 8, I've never gotten over that fear, but whenever I've a phone on me, I'm not afraid because I know I can call for help. I'd want a way to call for help, but I'd not want to be distracted from making sweet love under the coconut palms.
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Living time backwards
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 06, 2014 09:59 PM |
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Younger people? Where I'm from I see it from all ages.
True. But people who are older and who lived without such technologies can compare and they sometimes self-criticize and try to put a break on this new habit, sometimes even without planing it. My grandma plays word games on her iPad all the time nowadays but when she goes to bed, she doesn't take it with her and reads a book for a few hours before going to sleep. For younger people who are born into it, it's not much different than using the flush after taking a dump, it's almost reflexive.
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Steyn
Supreme Hero
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posted December 06, 2014 10:09 PM |
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That they are on their smartphones all the time is fine by me, but that they do it in front of de Nachtwacht, tsss 
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Nitramar
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 06, 2014 10:13 PM |
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Edited by Nitramar at 22:23, 06 Dec 2014.
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Interesting topic. I guess I have to start by telling that I've never owned a smart phone or a tablet (I have a laptop though) and I'm not on Facebook and hardly know how twitter works.
artu said:
Do you think that it's hindering actual human connection and communication?
No, quite the opposite. Of course, you might find that it is somehow less valuable to communicate electronically or rude to do so when you're sitting next to your friend (and I would agree on the latter). Even if I don't particularly like it, I still can't help but think that we have just developed a more efficient way to communicate: now we can talk to several people at the same time and much faster, so it's actually that friend setting next to you who's being a distraction.
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Do you think it distorts a more refined, focused level of receiving knowledge with bombardment of junk information?
Yes, but thinking that makes me feel like an elitist. I guess knowledge will gradually lose some of its value as information and instructions become even more available, which simply allows us to take in more junk. Really, I think humans will always take in as much "junk information" they can afford. It's a little-work-instant-reward kind of thing.
Also, having constant access to google (including google scholar), wikipedia etc. is quite useful also for the process of receiving knowledge in a more refined, focused manner, as you put it.
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Is it even accurate to define it as shattering of concentration?
I think it is unfair to define it that way, it's just the typical "things were better when I was young" kind of reasoning (which goes for the Plato example too in my opinion). It would be better to define it as a greater distribution of concentration. It may be possible that we won't see as many great artist or athletes in the future because nobody will be able to focus so much on one thing, but if that happens it will only show that our values have changed.
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When was the last time you had spent an entire day without checking out the internet, your mail, Facebook messages etc? Do you often watch the news or read the papers presented to you by professional journalists or do you rather hear it on some tweet when something happens? Is social media a platform of disinformation and hear-say or is it more reliable because it is not controlled or influenced by the government and big corporations? If both, how do you separate which is when?
I do check the internet every day, but mostly due to boredom and because I have to use it for studies (all course material is on the web). I get instant notifications for mail so I don't really need to check them manually.
I prefer news from professional media (TV, news papers). Social media is no replacement if you want usable information and not just data. In a country like Finland I believe that media is quite reliable and certainly more so than social media. But look at our neighbour to the east and it might be different.
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Would you take your smartphone with you and keep connected to the net if you were on a romantic weekend holiday with your lover on a paradise island?
This question is N/A to me on so many levels .
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Storm-Giant
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On the Other Side!
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posted December 06, 2014 10:26 PM |
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People have gotten really stupid with smartphones, they don't know when to stop. It can be so frustating 
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OhforfSake
Promising
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Initiate
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posted December 06, 2014 10:34 PM |
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Storm-Giant said:
People have gotten really stupid with smartphones, they don't know when to stop. It can be so frustating
In a sense, smartphones are like ketchup.
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Living time backwards
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 06, 2014 10:37 PM |
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Nitramar said:
Even if I don't particularly like it, I still can't help but think that we have just developed a more efficient way to communicate: now we can talk to several people at the same time and much faster
But that's the question, isnt it? Does more and faster necessarily mean more efficient? Would you watch three movies at a time? When you're listening to a friend, if you're also watching a video from Youtube and reading the comments on the side, are you doing any of these things with proper attention? It can indeed evolve into a new social skill though, I am just skeptical, not strictly against it.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Tsar-Ivor
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Scourge of God
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posted December 06, 2014 10:43 PM |
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actual human connection and communication
But it is just that, using smartphones is usually to talk to those that are generally unreachable normally, not just friends, but instant chat/text to people abroad. So I would argue that not only is it not hindering "actual human connection and communication", it is actual human interaction.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Nitramar
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 06, 2014 10:45 PM |
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artu said:
But that's the question, isnt it? Does more and faster necessarily mean more efficient? Would you watch three movies at a time? When you're listening to a friend, if you're also watching a video from Youtube and reading the comments on the side, are you doing any of these things with proper attention? It can indeed evolve into a new social skill though, I am just skeptical, not strictly against it.
It depends on how you value things. Is the movie really more important than the Youtube video? If you choose to watch the Youtube video, then probably the movie isn't actually so important to you and thus it would be a waste of time to fully concentrate on it.
I'm skeptical too and I don't like it when I discover these tendecies in my own behaviour.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 06, 2014 10:55 PM |
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That's quite debatable Tsar, I'm not saying it is not real communication but the level of intimacy or the feel to it is different. Take this place, we chat everyday, but if by some car accident you happen to vanish, people would say "gee, I wonder what happened to Tsar" a few times and that would be it, where as your real life friends, who know your name, behavior, voice, people who drank with you and went to places with you would feel a much stronger sadness. And they will know what happened to you. Or take Facebook, almost no dialogue is really intimate and off-guard. It's more like a crowded party where everyone puts on their social mannerisms, you know, act cool and funny, try to mingle and be charismatic.
It doesn't have to be one or the other, sure, you can have both. But if chatting on-line is overwhelmingly replacing talking face to face, one can speculate beyond "they are all communication."
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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Zenofex
Responsible
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Kreegan-atheist
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posted December 07, 2014 10:21 AM |
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The wide availability of data is something good, very good actually. Having the information you need at hand is not only convenient but usually also very useful and beneficial. The problems in the informational society are elsewhere.
On one hand, you have the ability to process the data that is being served to you everywhere - that is quite limited. It's easy to get confused even if the data is not deliberately manipulated and nowadays almost every piece of information is deliberately manipulated. You basically have to choose what to trust, following your understanding of objectivity which might or might not be adequate and in the end the useful or "good" data can be buried under so many layers of "noise" and "twisted data" that one might settle with the next best thing or just give up.
On the other hand you have the disinformation flowing through the same channels used by information. Very often there is no way to tell the one from the other. Having access to tons of data means just that, it does not guarantee neither its quality, nor its credibility. The general user lacks the education and skills to distinguish between real and fake, sometimes even experts can be misled. The mass communication renders the institutional manipulation (like the medieval catholic church for instance) unnecessary, now you can bombard people's minds not with millennia-old dogmas with superior authority but with terabytes of data that might as well have been created yesterday and which just can't be verified but can deliberately "help" you to reach some conclusion.
As for the communication between people - I think it has become inflated. Many multi-media device owners would communicate not because they need to but because they have developed a habit to do so. That usually results in saying something not because it has any valuable meaning behind it or because it's important to say it but just because you have the means to express yourself. Hence why the Internet is polluted with so many junk "thoughts".
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Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
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posted December 07, 2014 02:52 PM |
bonus applied by Corribus on 08 Dec 2014. |
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This surge of technology is surely one of the greatest feats of recent history, only through the net we are able to talk about this, even if we are so distant.
The greatest thing of the spread of computers and cellphones is being able to communicate without the need of actually meeting, especially when it becomes practical, it would have been ludicrous back then to ask someone to join your guild in a MMO (Mostly because they didn't exist yet).
Think about those heart-melting situations, a son goes to university in another state and yet it's almost like having him at home through voice-chats, grandparents being able to see their grandsons every day etc.
Another thing is the accessibility of information, which can be useful at times, uncertain if buying this object over another is a good idea? Take your cellphone out and search for some reviews. Don't have an idea where to eat? Search for a restaurant etc.
And also, how it can make us improve our grammar, especially auto-correct, known for working on your phrases, and the perfect excuse for writing lewd messages to your loved ones!
Lastly, it is the perfect method of letting everyone know whatever you're doing at the moment, like everything you do, from studying to the use of a bathroom...
And that's the reason, I do believe we are reaching a level of idiocy I'm not comfortable with and why I believe that social networks are the scourge of humanity.
Before we had angsty teenagers that wrote the lyrics of their favourite emo bands, now we have a population that writes "inspiring quotes" and posts their face almost every 10 minutes, I now expect that they will post the size and weight of their "products".
Every single day I have to cope with the fact that almost everyone that I talk to doesn't actually have anything to say when asked directly but somehow becomes a great conversationalist during chats, it's like they can't look at your eyes anymore to talk with you.
Classrooms today are filled with teens that have their phones concealed and use them during lessons, and the best part they sometimes even show them directly, like they think they are above rules.
People instead of trying to find love in their city prefer to sign up to dating sites, because why not...
Hundreds of so-called "poets" and "designers" show off their "works" to the world.
And especially thousands upon thousands want to force you to believe their ludicrous agendas.
And that doesn't even cover all of the reasons I dislike how we are treating one of the greatest advancements in history.
Now, I'm not saying ban all kinds of social networks, round all those who participated in them and shoot them, I fear we are misusing this potential, and instead we are damaging society as a whole.
What I also fear is that in this way we are creating a shyer society living in a digital world.
Also, I'm hating how somehow people think they know more than you just because they read an article on "teh interwebz" (and I know that I sometimes sound like them, which makes me even more angry about it), and won't bother even trying to understand your point of view and instead go ranting about how you are a horrible person for disagreeing with them.
I think the comparison with Plato is unfair to him, as he himself wrote works about philosophy and because he believed there were things that could only be understood if someone explained them to you orally (or that's at least what I learned), also, he was dealing with a new way of just conveying information and not something that could potentially replace traditional communication.
So, even in the event that in the future my thoughts will be invalidated, I believe that we should slow down with cellphones.
Also, me like playing vidya with people from Asia...
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Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted December 07, 2014 04:12 PM |
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That's a great opening photograph.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 07, 2014 04:58 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 17:02, 07 Dec 2014.
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Do you think that it's hindering actual human connection and communication?
I don't think it does in particular, but some other things do.
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Do you think it distorts a more refined, focused level of receiving knowledge with bombardment of junk information?
not really, you are only distracted by junk information if you choose to. sure, it's hard to avoid on social media, but you can just skip it and focus on the more important information. I can imagine puppils being distracted from their lessons, but it just means teachers fail at producing content which is interesting to them. (now, I'm not sure having advertisers in classes is a good idea, even though they are great at catching children's attention)
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Or is it simply producing a new type of society with different means of social and educational norms?
I'm not sure about that, it may just make some problems more apparent.
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Are we in a similar position when we find it awkward that younger people constantly peek on their cell phones even in the middle of a film or dinner talk. Is it only strange to us or is the constant shattering of concentration really problematic? Is it even accurate to define it as shattering of concentration?
no, as I said just before, I'm not sure it's really shattering of concentration. they probably weren't concentrated in the first place.
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Do you often watch the news or read the papers presented to you by professional journalists or do you rather hear it on some tweet when something happens?
I get news on social media, mostly from professionnal, or some amateurs who specializes in some domains.
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Is social media a platform of disinformation and hear-say or is it more reliable because it is not controlled or influenced by the government and big corporations?
it depends, there are people who believe and share every hoax they read, but there are also people who are well informed, who can link you to tons of interesting documents, and without social media, they would be mostly unknown.
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If both, how do you separate which is when?
you get to know over time, unless you add 10 more friends every day. there are people who always post interesting information, those who only post cat pictures and even the ones who get fooled by every single hoax...
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 07, 2014 06:39 PM |
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 07, 2014 11:44 PM |
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Knives can be used to stab people, but that's not an argument against knives. Over-the-counter medication can be used to poison oneself, but that's not an argument against Tylenol. You can burn down your house if you leave the oven on, but that's not an argument against ovens. The same principle applies to the Internet and social media. Sure, some people use them poorly, but they're still great inventions. Using my smartphone, I can communicate with people who are thousands of miles away (most of whom I've never met), engage in intellectual discussions with them, and have fun in general. Of course, not everyone enjoys that sort of thing - other people use their phones to play games like Angry Birds, and as much as I don't like those games, I'm happy that someone gets something out of them. But some people do use them poorly, because they're an easy stimulus, and end up not interacting with those around them as much as would be optimal for them. That is indeed bad, but blaming that on phones is like blaming stabbings on knives - it's a personal failing, not a problem with technology. But also, that kind of phone/social media use is excessively condemned, because sometimes people just don't like their surroundings and would rather be engaged in something else, which this technology enables them to do. For example, there's nothing wrong with doing online dating - it lets people find each other when they couldn't have been able to find each other otherwise, it lets them filter out incompatible people and find better matches, etc.
On the whole, these technologies are massively beneficial, but like most technologies, they can be misused.
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Eccentric Opinion
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted December 08, 2014 12:16 AM |
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Edited by artu at 00:17, 08 Dec 2014.
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I am not directly blaming the technology itself and suggesting some sort of post-modern Luddite movement. But my focus is on the overall effect on culture and social norms rather than this individual doing this and that individual doing that. It is a "the whole is something more than the sum of its parts" kind of situation. I am not an essentialist either though, I dont think of transformation as drifting away from our own true nature. However, that does not mean all change is unconditionally for the better all the time in all aspects.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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TDL
Honorable
Supreme Hero
The weak suffer. I endure.
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posted December 08, 2014 12:16 AM |
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I grew up in the era where mobile phones just started to show up and they were nowhere near as efficient as smartphones, therefore were were very limited to what we could achieve by using them during schooltime. However, the issue just becomes more prevalent these days because of how boring school is. And it is like that NOT because of how teachers fail at producing material which would interest us (quite the opposite, some are genuinely good at it), but there are two peak issues in play:
1) "Peer pressure/influence", meaning you are more likely to do what those around you take an interest in, especially if you like it.
and, more importantly, 2) School becoming a (modern) necessity rather than a privilege. While I do find many documentaries somewhat distorting the reality, trying to paint everything in brighter colours when it comes to people in 3rd world countries fancying to go to schools at a tender age, I still believe that the majority of them thrive on the times when they actually can attend school. A huuuuuge percentage of contemporary youths in developed countries are quite the opposite. And this only furthers the issue of social networks overtaking them because it allows for some (a)social communication during schooltime to escape reality.
I do not think that this will change, therefore we will only see an increase in social networking usage and/or whatever comes up in the future as a substitue.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted December 08, 2014 01:48 AM |
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This falls under the problem that even if human beings have autonomy over themselves from others, they don't necessarily have autonomy over themselves from themselves. It is possible to have complete political freedom and still be a slave, in the sense that you are incapable of doing what you think you ought to do.
When televisions hit the livingrooms, something very similar was brought up, about how it zombiefies you, and this criticism is not at all unjustified. Smart phones are the extension to that, going from the livingroom or office and into your pocket. So, are kids worse-off for having their heads buried in their smartphone hours on end? Yeah, I'd say they are. Then again, if they weren't doing that, they'd be watching TV, and if they weren't watching TV, they'd be bored & wandering around the neighborhood setting things on fire or throwing rocks at tin roofs. "Wasting time" is not a 20th century invention.
Of course, smart phones aren't going to go away, nor should they go away, but they add a necessarily layer of responsibility to a person's life if they want to avoid developing a dependency problem. You can use them towards noble & productive ends, such as defending the artistic majesty of the crossguard lightsaber, or you can do silly things, like refresh your Facebook wall an average of 4 times per minute. I think in the coming decades, we're going to see more and more programs dedicated to correcting this problem, not at all unlike Alcoholics Anonymous. There is a strong correlation between extremely heavy computer use and depression and academic underachievement.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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