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| Thread: Save Regeneration! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Hermes
Famous Hero
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posted May 16, 2015 02:30 AM |
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Please NO resurrection on any spell except, well, Resurrection.
Don't wanna see delaying the last turn to regenerate indefinitely, and it's crap strategies that involves losing to creatures when creeping.
Regeneration is good as it is now, it WILL save lives on of champions and elites.
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cleglaw
Famous Hero
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posted May 16, 2015 04:15 AM |
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Edited by cleglaw at 04:29, 16 May 2015.
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i share the concern towards regeneration. vitality/health bonus is a definietly very good idea it should be implemented right away!
in h6, devs connected regeneration with ressurection stacks to make it meaningful, but it turned out that, it was broken and almost a-must-pick to creeping. i understand the removing of ressurection effect from regeneration, but leaving it just in that old way, to work like a h3 cure spell, isnt enough to call it "problem solved" this is just leaving problem as a lesser problem like it was in series before.
implement also vitality/health bonus on casted stacks, this spell needs that to be considered "fixed" once and for all.
note: +%X is not a good idea, since its again, a buff towards tankier creatures, aka high tiers. im in favor of static bonus health+bonus % health, both of them together, something like this:
by progressing in spell power increase, it gets stronger:
+1 and +%5
+1 and +%6,
+1 and +%7,
+1 and +%8,
+1 and +%9,
+2 and +%10,
+2 and +%11,
+2 and +%12...
also please make sure it counters the DoT spell effects on stack.
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RMZ1989
Supreme Hero
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posted May 16, 2015 11:12 AM |
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mike80d said:
On a side note, I at least found the HOMM5 Hydra regeneration somewhat useful. But that's the only one that comes to mind.
Wyverns from Stronghold in H5 had one as well, and it was even better since they were higher tier, more mobile and stronger than Hydras.
I don't know, I agree that regeneration like this is completely useless but I am not sure what's the point of having a "petition" for changing one spell when there currently are bunch of problems. Hopefully people in Beta will point that to them and they will resolve it all in the end.
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Give a man a mask, and he'll
become his true self.
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DIEGIS
Supreme Hero
power of Zamolxis
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posted May 16, 2015 01:25 PM |
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Stevie said:
I think that's an important question that needs to be answered. Should Regeneration resurrect units or not?
yes, ofc!
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dacian falx behind you
-knowledge itself is power-
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 16, 2015 01:43 PM |
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It must heal the same amount of HP on all units. And if that means resurrection, it will resurrect. The amount will get bigger with hero level, wisdom, etc.
So say on Novice skill it heals 100 hp. That means it will resurrect 10 Pixie but 2 Druids but only heal the hurt stack of the Dragon and maybe resurrect 1 with little health. And as I said the further you advance in Earth Magic the HP amount will get bigger. Healing by percentage will never make that magic useful other than on high tier units.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 16, 2015 01:46 PM |
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Stevie said:
I think that's an important question that needs to be answered. Should Regeneration resurrect units or not?
Well it depends on the level. Either can work imo.
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What will happen now?
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted May 16, 2015 02:08 PM |
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depends on whether you want it to be good for high or low-tier, don't it? i'm for being able to decide yourself, like getting a perk that makes it heal more, but does not resurrect as many units, making it great for high-tier creatures but also having a perk (or letting it be standard) that allows for higher number of resurrected units but it doesn't heal as many hitpoints, making it great for low-tier creatures. numbers dependant on spellpower and proficiency of course.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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Dies_Irae
Supreme Hero
with the perfect plan
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posted May 16, 2015 02:55 PM |
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NamelessOrder said:
since quite often you prolong the battle to activate Regeneration to avoid any loses.
That is exactly what I tend to do when playing a map. If some stacks suffer damage, I try to revive the most damaged one as much as I can. Not just through Regeneration (either by the spell or the Druid's Bracers), but also through Waves of Renewal in the case of Sanctuary. Especially when a creature can act twice due to high morale, it will also heal twice in the same turn. So that means trying to block the enemy somehow, preventing it from attacking and being killed by retalation or something.
This works only in the early to mid-game situations, though. However, the early situation in the last Haven map (A battle Lost and Won) is already tricky due to Level 30 warlocks roaming about. You can have Regeneration, but bringing back, say, 50 dead Vestals through it might not work. One has to rely on other things for that to happen. Which is why Haven is such a good choice due to the many ways of healing you can have access to:
- Celestials: 2 times (both healing and resurrecting dead stacks)
- Vestals: 2 times
- Guardian Angel IV
- Heal, Heal Mass
- Sephiel's Voice (from the DW Heartrending Song)
- Improved Resurrection (from the DW Angelic Alliance)
I like the type of Regeneration as it is in H6. The one we see presented now, which only heals the top stack, may come in handy but it depends on the situation. The proposal made here to make it increase unit HP/health sounds appealing.
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icefield
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 16, 2015 05:11 PM |
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Healing (the top unit) as a spell and auto-regeneration as a creature skill (trolls, wraiths, hydras) has always been there. And always quite weak, except for a very small army, or for saving high-HP creatures agains low-tier armies.
I don't want to see resurrection there, however. The spell effect in H5 was nice, but felt wrong.
But there should be an effect that counts also for large armies. Adding HP would be such an effect. I'd rather like to see regeneration from curses (debuffs).
To fit the name, 'regeneration' could last for some rounds with the effect of (1) healing the top unit each turn and (2) reducing debuffs each turn. Reduction could be in terms of effective spell power, or removing one negative spell effect per round.
Regeneration would then help large stacks at late game as well as small stacks at early game, It would be different from instant dispel. The spell could also become AoE as an improvement ... this would not be negligible anymore.
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malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted May 17, 2015 06:09 PM |
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The spell is unskilled-rank so it s good balanced, more, ability Master of Earth I increase his power. A spell which heal over dead unit will appear in the Light School, i have no doubts.
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 17, 2015 08:55 PM |
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malax83 said:
The spell is unskilled-rank so it s good balanced, more, ability Master of Earth I increase his power. A spell which heal over dead unit will appear in the Light School, i have no doubts.
I'm also concerned about this.
How can this spell's power increase? While it heals 1 HP unskilled it will heal 10 hp at expert? At least with Master Of Earth it must becaome like its H5 counterpart but not heal by percentage but with HPs.
And Haven already has Sisters and Celestials to heal. They will also have Light Magic and so, Resurrection spell. They already will attack over and over again because of their morale. I know Haven is the posterboy, but isn't this a little too unfair?
Regeneration must heal certain amount of a HP which increases with level and resurrects if the healed amount of HP is enough. That is the most balanced way. Or they will have to switch Resurrection to Dark Magic for balance purposes in the future and that will be a good laugh.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted May 17, 2015 09:02 PM |
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Nocturnal said:
And Haven already has Sisters and Celestials to heal. They will also have Light Magic and so, Resurrection spell. They already will attack over and over again because of their morale. I know Haven is the posterboy, but isn't this a little too unfair?
Remember - Priestesses are just Haven's First Aid Tent, so they will act just like First Aid Tent, therefore their power shouldn't be overeswtimated.
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icefield
Adventuring Hero
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posted May 17, 2015 09:35 PM |
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For spell diversity, I'd rather keep regeneration and resurrection separate.
I imagine regeneration as a lasting effect that supports the stack over some time. That way, it fits into earth magic. Resurrection is an instant light-magic effect. Do Haven heroes have earth magic?
Sisters are skilled in Light, so they may heal and resurrect if that fits the gameplay. Although the latter used to be exclusive to Archangels ...
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 17, 2015 10:35 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 22:37, 17 May 2015.
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To put things into focus, a resurrection effect only makes sense in a higher tier. If the tier has been decided to be lvl 1 then resurrection would be ridiculous. Even if the effect was weak, people would spam the spell to get the most out of it and prolong battles needlessly.
Comparing it to warmachine healing: First aid tent used to have 3 healing shots in H5 and it was fine but you had to invest in a blacksmith and buy the tent. Warmachines will be similar in H7 except the healing warmachine will be more expensive. It makes little sense to allow the same amount of healing with a tier 1 spell.
If regeneration also dispelled curses it would be fine(see H3 cure) but this is not a canon regeneration property. Only light and water magic can have purifying/curing properties and it would overlap with existing spells.
As far as I can see, the spell should either be moved to a higher tier(though I wouldn't bet on it) or receive a secondary boost.
Wait till you see heal  Oh brother.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted May 18, 2015 01:57 PM |
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Dies_Irae said:
NamelessOrder said:
since quite often you prolong the battle to activate Regeneration to avoid any loses.
That is exactly what I tend to do when playing a map.
Same here, but the fact is that it points to a flawed mechanic. It's the same one that has existed (can I say, plagued?) the series ever since it became possible to resurrect units. Once one of the two sides is defeated, the ability to resurrect is blocked off - so instead, imminent defeat is postponed until no further option to resurrect is possible. I've personally never liked this mechanical issue, where the game didn't offer a post-battle resurrection to the victor, depending on the means available to that player.
That being said, Regeneration implies the ability for damaged living matter to replenish and repair itself. Once killed, it should be pretty much beyond regeneration. So, even though I personally liked the resurrection from regeneration, it didn't make much sense. Then again, we're talking Ashan here ... still, return from the dead should be through the resurrection spell.
Regeneration could also work to reduce damage as it's being dealt. In that way, it could act as a damage reduction component: reduces X% melee damage dealt to the target stack and/or Y% magic damage dealt to the target stack. Something like that.
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted May 18, 2015 02:28 PM |
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Elvin said:
Wait till you see heal
What's wrong with heal?
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted May 18, 2015 02:44 PM |
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To spice regeneration up maybe it could restore units' both health mana? So it makes it more useful and more likely to be cast on spellcasting units
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted May 18, 2015 03:07 PM |
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LizardWarrior said:
To spice regeneration up maybe it could restore units' both health mana? So it makes it more useful and more likely to be cast on spellcasting units
Tere are no spellcasting units as they were in Heroes V.
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