|
| Thread: The perks of producing 6 hero classes per faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV |
|
Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
|
posted September 10, 2015 12:59 PM |
|
|
romanov77 said:
keldaur said:
kiryu133 said:
If you're gonna tell me combat prowess has more to do with physical power than skill, I'm gonna have to laugh at you 
well, more that I already do 
I guess there is no reason why we use categories on martial arts using weight, huh ?
I am smarter and I got better combat skills than a Grizzly bear, therefore I can easly subdue or kill one of them with my fancy moves, speed and superior knowledge of the human/bear body.
Really, last time I met one in the woods I back-flipped on top of his head and then delivered an Exploding Palm Punch on his abdominal pressure point, thus rupturing his internal organs.
And good for him that I wasn't carrying my folded steel unbreakable Katana.
What are you? Vladimir Putin?
____________
Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 10, 2015 01:20 PM |
|
|
|
romanov77
Known Hero
|
|
posted September 10, 2015 01:27 PM |
|
|
Neraus said:
romanov77 said:
keldaur said:
kiryu133 said:
If you're gonna tell me combat prowess has more to do with physical power than skill, I'm gonna have to laugh at you
well, more that I already do
I guess there is no reason why we use categories on martial arts using weight, huh ?
I am smarter and I got better combat skills than a Grizzly bear, therefore I can easly subdue or kill one of them with my fancy moves, speed and superior knowledge of the human/bear body.
Really, last time I met one in the woods I back-flipped on top of his head and then delivered an Exploding Palm Punch on his abdominal pressure point, thus rupturing his internal organs.
And good for him that I wasn't carrying my folded steel unbreakable Katana.
What are you? Vladimir Putin?
I wish!
Anyway, with proper combat training and Hokuto School techniques you can easily subdue a bear, no matter how big is your beer paunch or flimsy your arms are.
Currently I am teaching my 8 years old daughter some proper combat techniques and she can already subdue adult male Elks.
Last time she did it, she made a mistake while performing a Mountain Splitting Wave and got some bruising on the cheek.
The next day she was so angry that she hospitalized two burly bikers who had mocked her for her pink bicycle.
|
|
Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
|
|
posted September 10, 2015 01:30 PM |
|
|
So you're telling me that the: "HOKUTO! HYAKURETSU KEN" is possible to learn?
WHERE DO I SIGN!?
But now, guys, this is straying too much from the topic, please, let's create a new thread for this...
Where should I make it though...
____________
Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
|
|
Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted September 10, 2015 01:32 PM |
|
|
|
bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted September 10, 2015 01:53 PM |
|
|
kiryu133 said:
Biggest army wins, simple as that unless there are some extraordinary circumstances like very clever commanders with good discipline or very poor morale.
Can't you notice the incoerence betwen your postures about individual mass and colective mass? One 100 kg person will overwelm one 60 kg person the exact same way a 10 members gang will overwelm a 6 members gang, if not more.
|
|
romanov77
Known Hero
|
|
posted September 10, 2015 02:07 PM |
|
|
|
haha, I am so glad I sparked this, makes me feel like Sandro.
|
|
Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
|
posted September 10, 2015 02:10 PM |
|
Edited by Elvin at 14:11, 10 Sep 2015.
|
Pawek_13 said:
Maybe Swordmasters have heated swords and at the time of the combat their enemies change into butter for a tiny period of time?
That would be an epic enchantment. Or maybe elven blades in Ashan lower molecular density on contact. This is such an obvious prime enchantment I can't believe we didn't realize earlier.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
|
|
romanov77
Known Hero
|
|
posted September 10, 2015 02:19 PM |
|
|
I knew that the scrapping of Enroth had much darker undertones:
Quote:
Xsi was one of but a handful of females deemed worthy to make the transformation into full lich
Sexist Police must have brought this into court, I suspect.
Moreover, that's so wrong...my last girlfriend was one hell of a lich.
I remember one day she kept liching at me all day because I had accidentally broken her mom's phylactery, which she had left standing on my Xbox.
|
|
bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted September 10, 2015 02:28 PM |
|
|
Elvin said:
This is such an obvious prime enchantment I can't believe we didn't realize earlier.
Talk about yourself...
This is from an old map I started but didn't finnished yet.
(Heroes III Wog/Era ERM
!!EA150:B11/1/102/98/0/0/0/1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1; Attack & Return
!!EA150:B12/1/112/56/0/0/0/0/0/100/100/100/100/100/100; Frenzy Enemy BEFORE Attack
Attack with no retaliation...
!!EA150:B13/1/75/59/0/0/0/0/0/100/100/100/100/100/100; Berserk Enemy AFTER Attack
|
|
Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
|
|
posted September 10, 2015 02:48 PM |
|
Edited by Neraus at 14:48, 10 Sep 2015.
|
romanov77 said:
I knew that the scrapping of Enroth had much darker undertones:
Quote:
Xsi was one of but a handful of females deemed worthy to make the transformation into full lich
Sexist Police must have brought this into court, I suspect.
Actually, now that I think of it...
Wouldn't it make the game more interesting if there was sexism in societies? The female knight becoming an exception and for that reason she is extremely capable making her worthy to be equal to great heroes of the past.
That doesn't mean males should be exempt of course, in an elven court I imagine a male ranger striving to reach the recognition he thinks he deserves but since he is a male he is hampered in his quest.
There are so many ways this could play out as a good story device I think, that the idea of having a total equality of sexes in roles loses credence for me.
Unless you're making an heroine like Isabel, that would turn the whole struggle into a joke...
But really, it's a game, it's fantasy, is it really harmful if there are discriminations inside the game? Wouldn't it empower the female heroes instead of making them a man with tits? I think as long as there is no discrimination on the player it should be fine.
____________
Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
|
|
kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
|
|
posted September 10, 2015 03:31 PM |
|
|
Neraus said:
But really, it's a game, it's fantasy, is it really harmful if there are discriminations inside the game? Wouldn't it empower the female heroes instead of making them a man with tits? I think as long as there is no discrimination on the player it should be fine.
Thank you! this is what it's all about. I mean, if you want to make an unequal society, that's fine (H3 fortress comes to mind: only women could be witches and only men could be beast masters and its my favourite faction) but you need to acknowledge that everyone is going to play your game. That means making sure that there is at least some representation for every class. Since haven is supposedly mostly an equal society (or at the least doesn't say no to female soldiers) there is no reason to not having female knights. It's that simple. And even if you feel like having a male-only occupation... At least be tasteful about it. Make it obvious that that is how that society does things and make sure you're not being an ass about it. Once again, H3 fortress did a fantastic job at this simply by not bringing it up and having each class being exclusive to different genders. You build a world without being an ass about it. And before anyone asks, I'm going somewhere with this:
I'd love having something like this to be the case in a faction! Maybe faketress? They seem rather oldschool and steeped in tradition so having all their magic heroes be female and all their might heroes be male (or vice verse, it doesn't matter) would be pretty cool and help give us a good feel of dwarf life/culture through gameplay. Just, you know, don't focus on it? I really doubt any of Ubis writers are skillful enough to do it respectfully...
Haven can not be this faction. Haven is the player POV faction. It's the faction where the genders need to be as equally represented as you can get them and H7 is doing a pretty great job of it! And while one more female soldier would be great (I vote crossbowomen!) but I'm pretty happy with the current state.
TL;DR: Not having female knights/units Is discrimination or at the very least lacks any respect towards half the population.
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
|
|
Neraus
Promising
Legendary Hero
Pain relief cream seller
|
|
posted September 10, 2015 04:08 PM |
|
Edited by Neraus at 16:10, 10 Sep 2015.
|
Well, effectively now that I think of it Heroes III had an extra dimension in that sense, as I said, it's an idea that can be used to flesh out characters and not as a gratuitous insult to players (it needs to be done correctly though, of course).
Actually, I love the idea of Dwarves made like this, I think that as long as they stray away from making the female heroes like Isabel it should be fine...
Even if they have the precedent of fixating on particular things, like Necropolis and spiders, so perhaps a Dwarf patriarchy may then become the only thing people know about it, turning it into a complete joke and an insult thus losing the possibility of a serious story...
More to the point of Haven, I'm not opposed to either directions, it becoming a patriarchy would satisfy my history obsession, but at the same time I don't have problems with it having equal roles for sexes as long as they don't put female monks and angels as units(There are religious boundaries I'm not going to cross).
____________
Noli offendere Patriam Agathae quia ultrix iniuriarum est.
ANTUDO
|
|
GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted September 10, 2015 04:48 PM |
|
|
welp the OT. But it's a nice topic.
I actually like the IDEA of Isabel, because i think that she was supposed to be an inversion of Emilia and Catherine characters (The Queen rises to defend her people (x3)...but this Queen happens to be Marie Antoniette...oops) The problem happens to be that H5 had very poor acting so the fact that she is snowing up from the beggining doesnt really appear.
I think that Anton is a better done version of Isabel.
----------------
Regarding the sexism thing, there is sexism in Ashan but in a very modern world sense, men and women are equal except they really arent (at least in Haven and Fortress)
|
|
Kayna
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted September 11, 2015 03:11 PM |
|
Edited by Kayna at 15:12, 11 Sep 2015.
|
|
Meh. Having no classes at all and access to all skills to lvl up would've given us more build possibilities. And what's the hype about random skill wheels? Random = no control, thus no strategy.
|
|
EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
|
|
posted September 11, 2015 04:30 PM |
|
Edited by EnergyZ at 16:38, 11 Sep 2015.
|
Kayna said:
Random = no control, thus no strategy.
You have no idea how wrong you are.
Let me enlighten you - most things in wars or battles are unpredictable and random. In using the random system, you take advantage of skills and abilities you have at disposal. And that's strategy, just seen from a different angle. Heroes isn't just another strategic game, since you have random (skill) system implemented, and much more. Plus, it allows re-playability (you can play as might in one play and as magic hero in the other). Besides, if no control means no strategy, why do you have the option, when starting a new scenario, to have the computer choose the faction, hero and the bonus at the start?
Of course, there is also mistakes that have not yet been fixed (like re-balancing certain skills, like Eagle Eye or Navigation). But the point remains the same.
|
|
Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
|
|
posted September 11, 2015 04:55 PM |
|
|
EnergyZ said:
Kayna said:
Random = no control, thus no strategy.
You have no idea how wrong you are.
Let me enlighten you - most things in wars or battles are unpredictable and random. In using the random system, you take advantage of skills and abilities you have at disposal. And that's strategy, just seen from a different angle. Heroes isn't just another strategic game, since you have random (skill) system implemented, and much more. Plus, it allows re-playability (you can play as might in one play and as magic hero in the other). Besides, if no control means no strategy, why do you have the option, when starting a new scenario, to have the computer choose the faction, hero and the bonus at the start?
Of course, there is also mistakes that have not yet been fixed (like re-balancing certain skills, like Eagle Eye or Navigation). But the point remains the same.
Darn it, I wanted to say it!  Anyway, I agree with what Energy Z said - in a true war, you must be expecting the unexpected. I know this sounds like a truism but this is exactly the case.
|
|
Kayna
Supreme Hero
|
|
posted September 11, 2015 06:17 PM |
|
|
There's enough random elements in the game to fill in that purpose. The minimum-maximum damage range, the luck factor, the morale, the random monsters that spawns in front of that ressource that you really need, artifacts found, etc. Too much randomness and yes, the strategy element fades away. To take an extreme example, there's absolutely no strategy involved in tossing a die each and say that the highest win. I consider the random skill tree to cross the "remain strategic" line.
It also doesn't really make any sense. Why would a general of an army randomly decides which skill he's going to focus on? Meh. We may not have control over the environmental factors around us, but we're supposed to be the master of our own destiny.
Bogus, bogus, bogus.
|
|
EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
|
|
posted September 11, 2015 06:21 PM |
|
|
Kayna said:
There's enough random elements in the game to fill in that purpose. The minimum-maximum damage range, the luck factor, the morale, the random monsters that spawns in front of that ressource that you really need, artifacts found, etc. Too much randomness and yes, the strategy element fades away. To take an extreme example, there's absolutely no strategy involved in tossing a die each and say that the highest win. I consider the random skill tree to cross the "remain strategic" line.
It also doesn't really make any sense. Why would a general of an army randomly decides which skill he's going to focus on? Meh. We may not have control over the environmental factors around us, but we're supposed to be the master of our own destiny.
Bogus, bogus, bogus.
I'd say that is what makes the Heroes so special among other strategic games. Besides, it is fantasy, so not everything has to be taken seriously.
|
|
Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
|
|
posted September 12, 2015 03:25 PM |
|
|
Kayna said:
Random = no control, thus no strategy.
Except that it's a semi-controlled random. In previous Heroes titles (H3, H4, H5 at least), you got offered a choice between several skills. The skills were chosen randomly from among the ones you already had and could upgrade (if available) and those that were new (if you still had skill slots open).
The strategy with the random skills lies exactly in the offered choices. By following the proper strategic choices, you can mold and shape your Hero in a particular way, even if you don't have direct control. And sure enough, the mold falls one way in one game and another way in another game - and that's the beauty of it all! That's the aspect that keeps many people coming back for.
|
| |
|
|
