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| Thread: Choosing main hero among starting heroes for inferno |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Laser70
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 07, 2015 03:58 AM |
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Edited by Laser70 at 04:01, 07 Oct 2015.
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As a Dungeon player I am always jealous with Inferno's Sultan Efreet, the fire shield and that health is something I always lust for. It's just a very good unit, when I see it on the battlefield, I have to take it out quickly with my Evil Eyes before melee attacks activate that fire shield. The question about which hero to choose, I have no idea, I think I played Inferno once in my life, actually four times.
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dodo_bird
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 07, 2015 09:45 AM |
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I don't understand why you guys are doing testing instead of just looking at the probability table.
Marius and Nymus both start with one skill at advanced. The weighted probability for offense and armorer is 8 and 7 respectively, so Marius is marginally more likely to get offense than Nymus is to get armorer. Because of this, Marius is also marginally less likely to be forced to pick between 2 bad skills.
Vampire_Rush said:
What do you mean with Kicferk said:
So you slow development of magic school you get at lvl4 to get a better hero.
You pick good skills if they get offered, at the expense of getting the magic you get at lvl 4 to expert sooner, so that you won't run out of skills and be potentially offered 2 bad ones to choose from.
xlnt said:
I'd prefer Calh (4-20 Gogs) on 200% if i know the zone has weak guards and Octavia on 200% with stronger guards.
I'd better have +1 speed to my efreets than start with doggies - so Fiona would be my last choice.
I think Fiona is an option on 200%. Advanced scouting will be very handy especially in the first few days. If she only takes hellhounds (speed 8), she gets 200 movement points more per day compared to scouts with imps. Calh or Octavia are probably safer as they would make better main heroes if you can't get anyone good in tavern.
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Kicferk
Known Hero
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posted October 07, 2015 11:02 AM |
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bloodsucker said:
Well, I took notice of some results.
I'm making Crag open a PBox with 150.000 exp so all slots go to Expert. Notice that I'm paying only attention to optimize future development of the hero acording to a preset of prefered skills. As Sal once said "It is possible that expert earth was offered, and then 100% all great players will ignore everything else" and I didn't took notice of any other consideration then: can I still get another chance to get Air/Earth? And: now that I have both wich of the others on the preset can I get?
Fire, Pathfinding and Resistence were the other skills I picked preferably and Tactics the one I most often left behind when facing the possibility of not get the two prefered magic Schools.
1. Offense, Logistics, Air, Wisdom, Earth, Tactics, Resistence, Archery;
2. Offense, Armorer, Air, Wisdom, Fire, Logistics, Tactics, Earth;
3. Offense, Tactics, Earth, Air, Armorer, Logistics, Wisdom, Resistence;
4. Offense, Pathfinding, Air, Wisdom, Tactics, Armorer, Logistics, Earth;
5. Offense, Air, Logistics, Pathfinding, Tactics, Earth, Wisdom, Leadership;
6. Offense, Diplomacy(Nav.), Earth, Wisdom, Scouting, Air, Pathfinding, Tactics;
7. Offense, Armorer, Fire, Air, Logistics, Wisdom, Tactics, Earth;
8. Offense, Artillery, Fire, Armorer, Logistics, Earth, Wisdom, Air;
9. Offense, Logistics, Fire, Earth, Leadership, Air(Wisdom), Scouting;
10. Offense, Tactics, Earth, Wisdom, Pathfinding, Logistics, Armorer (or Fire at level 18), Scouting;
11. Offense, Archery, Fire, Armorer, Earth, Wisdom, Logistics, Leadership;
12. Offense, Diplomacy, Air, Wisdom, Armorer, Earth, Resistence, Logistics;
13. Offense, Logistics, Air, Wisdom, Earth, Pathfinding, Armorer, Fire;
14. Offense, Armorer, Earth, Wisdom, Logistics, Air, Resistence, Tactics;
15. Offense, Earth, Pathfinding, Wisdom, Logistics, Air, Resistence, Tactics;
16. Offense, Resistence, Earth, Wisdom, Tactics, Air, Archery, Fire;
17. Offense, Tactics, Earth, Wisdom, Pathfinding, Air, Logistics, Artillery;
18. Offense, Logistics, Air, Wisdom, Resistence, Earth, Tactics, Luck;
19. Offense, Logistics, Air, Pathfinding, Wisdom, Armorer, Tactics, Earth;
20. Offense, Logistics, Earth, Wisdom, Pathfinding, Tactics, Armorer, Air;
Hack with armorer:
1. Armorer, Offense, Fire, Wisdom, Tactics, Air, Logistics, Pathfinding;
2. Armorer, Pathfinding, Earth, Wisdom, Logistics, Offense, Tactics, Air;
3. Armorer, Luck, Air, Wisdom, Offense, Tactics, Earth, Artillery;
4. Armorer, Pathfinding, Earth, Wisdom, Logistics, Tactics, Offense, Air;
5. Armorer, Wisdom, Fire, Tactics, Luck, Earth, Logistics, Offense;
6. Armorer, Offense, Fire, Wisdom, Logistics, Earth, Pathfinding, Air;
7. Armorer, Scouting, Earth, Wisdom, Pathfinding, Air, Logistics, Offense;
8. Armorer, Logistics, Offense, Air, Wisdom, Earth, Artillery, Fire;
9. Armorer, Air, Tactics, Wisdom, Earth, Logistics, Luck, Resistence;
10. Armorer, Offense, Earth, Wisdom, Logistics, Tactics, Air, Pathfinding;
Marius:
1. Armorer, Artillery, Earth, Wisdom, Tactics, Offense, Logistics, Air;
2. Armorer, Resistence, Air, Logistics, Tactics, Offense, Earth, Wisdom;
3. Armorer, Logistics, Fire, Wisdom, Pathfinding, Earth, Scholar, Water;
4. Armorer, Resistence, Air, Earth, Wisdom, Fire, Logistics, Sorcery;
5. Armorer, Archery, Fire, Tactics, Logistics, Air, Wisdom, Water;
6. Armorer, Wisdom, Artillery, Offense, Earth, Logistics, Tactics, Air;
7. Armorer, Offense, Earth, Wisdom, Artillery, Fire, Logistics, Air;
8. Armorer, Fire, Logistics, Air, Wisdom, Pathfinding, Earth, Offense;
9. Armorer, Logistics, Air, Wisdom, Fire, Leadership, Offense, Earth;
10. Armorer, Tactics, Air, Logistics, Offense, Archery, Wisdom, Earth;
Nymus:
1. Offense, Resistence, Air, Tactics, Logistics, Wisdom, Earth, Fire;
2. Offense, Sorcery, Air, Archery, Earth, Wisdom, Logistics, Fire;
3. Offense, Tactics, Pathfinding, Air, Logistics, Wisdom, Fire, Earth;
4. Offense, Armorer, Earth, Pathfinding, Tactics, Wisdom, Logistics, Air;
5. Offense, Resistence, Tactics, Wisdom, Armorer, Fire, Logistics, Earth;
6. Offense, Wisdom, Air, Armorer, Luck, Earth, Logistics, Fire;
7. Offense, Wisdom, Earth, Tactics, Logistics, Armorer, Pathfinding, Fire;
8. Offense, Archery, Earth, Logistics, Armorer, Wisdom, Air, Pathfinding;
9. Offense, Tactics, Earth, Wisdom, Armorer, Logistics, Fire, Archery;
10. Offense, Air, Armorer, Tactics, Earth, Logistics, Wisdom, Resistence;
Well done, that's exactly how you should present your results 
Cheers
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 07, 2015 11:07 AM |
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dodo_bird said:
Calh or Octavia are probably safer as they would make better main heroes if you can't get anyone good in tavern.
How can Calh be a good choice if he starts already with two quite avoidable skills? He can only learn six from the seven skills intended and if the other two failed to get them all on occasion, when they had just a slot filled with a desired skill and a free slot to accommodate any failure, what do you think will happen to him?
Kicferk said:
Well done, that's exactly how you should present your results
You mean, forget all analysis of content cause you suck at it? I started the post more or less like you said but then tried to understand the results I was getting. For instance, while both Nymus and Marius got Logistics (value of 10) in all attempts, Crag with Armorer fails once to get Offense (same value but he should start with it and doesn't).
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Kicferk
Known Hero
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posted October 07, 2015 11:22 AM |
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I got rid of the analysis cause the post was very long, it was fine 
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dodo_bird
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 07, 2015 01:00 PM |
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Why is it such a big deal to not get a perfect hero? It happens. You make do with what you get. That's the nature of the game.
Archery makes your gogs powerstack a lot better. You will depend on them for a while. Scouting is not that bad especially on 200%. Calh may not be a better main than Nymus and Marius, but you get a stronger start.
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Kicferk
Known Hero
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posted October 07, 2015 01:35 PM |
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If you play hota then cahl is great.
Otherwise you just can't risk 1 stack of gogs imo.
And it is fairly important to have a nearly perfect hero if you want to win. To a point when if a hero lacks 2 or 3 essential skills it is better to develop a new one.
Because what happens if your opponent got main hero with all the important skills? You are at a disadvantage, either in final battle or in clearing and control of the map. You play with what you get, but you want to maximize your chances of winning within the limits of what you get.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 07, 2015 05:13 PM |
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dodo_bird said:
Why is it such a big deal to not get a perfect hero? It happens. You make do with what you get.
I'm partially with you, that's why I made the comments about Marius fourth attempt being a good one even if it lacks both Tactics and Offense. Cause the three most damaging magic schools plus Sorcery, Armorer and Resistence can produce a strong spellcaster. Even if she lacks both spellpower and knowledge just from leveling up, in a real scenario she will get an increment for Spellpower from the Inferno town she starts in and can count on powerups and artifacts along the map to strengthen her weakness.
This hero becomes very different from the traditional Crag or Tazar development, since it relies on magic skills to do the deed but I think it can be, in certain circunstances, more viable to go this way then to continously look for the might skills the demoniac is not getting from leveling up.
Now, in this sense I would argue that even Rashka, with Wisdom and Scholar, can become better then Calh, since in SoD Archery is totally a bad skill for Inferno, because you have just one weak shooter and are probably going to farm it immediately after the imps.
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Vampire_Rush
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 08, 2015 10:38 AM |
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Let's get back on-topic.
Kicferk said:
If you play hota then cahl is great.
Otherwise you just can't risk 1 stack of gogs imo.
So if I want extra fighting power guaranteed before getting efreet, would pyre (with artillery and logistics) be a useful alternative? Pyre can't get gogs but ballista is 100%, does anyone know about any way to exploit ballista so monsters will attack ballista instead of imps/gogs?
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Kicferk
Known Hero
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posted October 08, 2015 12:01 PM |
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There is an easy exploit with ballista, works for relatively slow monsters. You need to make sure ballista is the only entity in their range, so you place you r main stack on 6 or 7 and then shoot till they are dead. But if you don't kill them quick enough you lose your ballista.
Also, log is always nice to have. So yes, acceptable choice.
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted October 08, 2015 05:28 PM |
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Vampire_Rush said:
would pyre (with artillery and logistics) be a useful alternative?
Pyre is great for main and not only for Inferno, she is probably even better for other towns like Castle or Tower, that don't get Logistics so easily.
However, I never like to choose Artillery or First Aid if the starting town blacksmith doesn't sell the war-machine required and there are no War-Machines Factory near, once you lose the one they bring with them skill/specialty becomes a total waste.
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HeymlicH
Famous Hero
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posted November 27, 2015 02:00 PM |
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Edited by HeymlicH at 14:07, 27 Nov 2015.
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Actually, you can make sure to get Earth, Air and Wisdom, but for that you need to pick Wisdom at lvl 6. If you don't, you may end up being offered Earth and Wisdom at 12, unable to get both of them. If you pick the proper main hero, that is. A demoniac is not a proper main hero.
So I always pick Octavia and hope for an Overlord/Ranger/Beastmaster/Barbarian in the Tavern. The only good thing about demoniacs is their high chance to get diplomacy, which I consider game breaking.
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Vampire_Rush
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 02, 2015 01:30 PM |
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I've been playing 160% xl+u marathon template with a friend with me on a handicap of always starting in the underground with inferno. About 50% of the times starting with inferno below ground on this template (and many other templates) is a real nightmare where you end up blocked very early, not much resources, tunnel structure that prevents effective hero movements, and fake lava terrain (it's really subterreanen yet without crypts).
After about 10-15 consecutive wins, I finally lost against my friend playing under these circumstances starting with Nymus against Monere/conflux going for maximized army week one, having a really tough start. I would like some feedback about my new strategy:
I choose Ayden as starting hero and use his view earth starting spell to locate wood and ore mines. I go for capitol rush with only Ayden running around with 1 imp/hell hound in the direction view earth tells him is best. I usually get capitol the first days on week 2 and then go for 8 heroes as fast and possible and efreet before week3. I fight with my 6 efreet towards the gold and mercury of the map which view earth locates, usually it's easy to get devils week 3. After this I fight with devils and efreet, going for arch devils as soon as possible, lvling up ayden aiming for expert intelligence and earth magic which he gets easily. I built city hall in my 3 other towns without fort instead of additional troops.
At week 5 I took out lots of green dragons, lots of ancient behemoths, horde of mighty gorgons on swamp and an utopia with 5 archdevils and forcefield using 100-300 spell points per fight, finally getting the econonomy of starting my demon farming with a might hero that could become my main. That since ayden got 7 good skills but then learned first aid instead of offense as last skill. Now my turns are up to 1 hour each, at least capitol rush saved some time in the beginning
In end of week 6 Ayden got stat average 20, 800 spell points and does 3k dmg with implosion, running around a treasure zone with archdevils clearing all monsters in my way except perhaps throng of phoenixes if they exist on the map. I have found a stronghold with fort and plan to double build inferno and triple build stronghold for demons and behemoths. I declined double building tower (no demons and no forts there) with giant dwelling.
We aren't exactly pros at hero chaining and the map is really hard and big, playing with most of the wcl rules we usually don't have end fight until month 3.
I have marius lvl 8 with tactics, pathfinding and resistance getting offered fire magic twice so stopped lvling, pyre lvl 10+ with exp earth magic, pathfinding, tactics and wisdom (which is irrelevant since I have 2 earth and 1 air tome) crag hack lvl 10 from prison with archery (gogs=demons), ballistics and pathfinding (which is good on this template).
My opponent is Rampart/Kyrre with about 20 stats in average who went for unicorns week one, double builds rampart and uses a hill fort. It's very likely my opponent will find cloak or orb before we meet.
Which one would be your main? Is octavius week 1 efreet rush superior to my strategy under any given circumstances? And how much do I suck compared to you? 
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted December 02, 2015 02:30 PM |
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Since you and your friend allow each other to build up in peace, why not gather huge amounts of demons?
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Vampire_Rush
Adventuring Hero
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posted December 02, 2015 03:02 PM |
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I only made 600 demons in the last game where I lost, we actually don't let each other build up in peace, it's the map. We ban dd/fly and the distance between our starting towns is really big with at least lots of upgraded or horde of unupgraded lvl 7 creatures at some point between. Also it's a poor map so one can't rush guards early like in jebus.
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