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| Thread: Paragon skill OP |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Kayna
Supreme Hero
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posted October 21, 2015 07:09 AM |
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Na. I thought it was 85 % xp but it's only 15 %. It takes quite a while before you can lvl up an economy skill hero to master. Another way to balance this is to increase the price of each hero you hire, like the old Heroes games, that way said economy hero takes while to pay off and each death makes rehiring a pricey drawback.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 21, 2015 08:15 AM |
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alcibiades said:
On the other hand, the XP bonus from the primary skill seems by default useless in the sense that you're likely to put more XP into leveling up the skill than you will get back in the form of bonus XP. H5 came around this issue by offering extra skill points for every X level, but that's not part of this skill anymore. From a design point of view, that is definitely a weird construction.
It's a rather messy skill. It's like you sacrifice a skill so that you can get some useful abilities but other than mentoring and the extra stats/mana, I am not very convinced it is worth picking.
I simply dislike the basic effect, which only makes sense if picked early. I'd rather it gave you xp retroactively or some bonus was added, like with H5. Attack and defense boost their respective stats, warfare boosts the warmachine stats, only magic misses a stat boost.
I am also not very happy with the bonuses of luck/leadership compared to attack and defense. +5 luck/leadership translates into +2.5% damage on average(5% chance to have an extra half-action) while +2 attack/defense ranges from 5-10% effectiveness. Luck is in better shape since the bonus damage can be boosted nicely(plus no enemy retaliation lol) but I dislike the great difference between the stats.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 21, 2015 08:19 AM |
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EnergyZ said:
The idea may work if there was no level cap, right?
That depends entirely on the length of the game. The longer the game, the more benefit you get from Paragon. If enemy rushes you, having level up Paragon will basically leave you as if you had picked no skills, bar the stat boost perks.
natalka said:
leveling up secondary heroes for free is OP.
But it's not "for free". You level up your secondary heroes at the expence of a skill on your primary hero.
In order to get to Mentor, you need to put 6 skill points into Paragon. Those 6 skill points could have been invested on another skill instead. Whether that is a good investment depends on the game length (as said above) and on overall balance. If leveling is very fast (which I hear complaints about), obviously this will favor Paragon, because that means you have many skill points and thus can better afford to transfer some to your secondaries (which is basically what Paragon does, although of course you do get some compensation from the XP boost).
Also, the magic system (once again) in a somewhat bizarre twist favors Paragon in the sense that 1) you need to Arcane Knowledge boost from that Paragon perk, and 2) the fact that all magic schools to a large extent covers the same ground means that investing in 1 school + paragon is a viable alternative to investing in 2 schools (unlike H5, where investing in 2 schools would leave you considerable more versatile than investing in 1 school only).
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malax83
Famous Hero
Game ranger, HotA Player
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posted October 21, 2015 09:51 AM |
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alcibiades said:
Also, the magic system (once again) in a somewhat bizarre twist favors Paragon in the sense that 1) you need to Arcane Knowledge boost from that Paragon perk, and 2) the fact that all magic schools to a large extent covers the same ground means that investing in 1 school + paragon is a viable alternative to investing in 2 schools (unlike H5, where investing in 2 schools would leave you considerable more versatile than investing in 1 school only).
you said everything. 
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 21, 2015 10:27 AM |
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How about making it once only, per Hero? What I mean is that you level your main Hero and invest in Paragon. Then, once for each secondary Hero, you can have your Main Hero train him or her through Mentoring. That means you'll have to carefully pick the moment when you Mentor that secondary Hero as you can't do it repeatedly. You can do it early game, to quickly get a few secondaries up and running, but lose out on Mentoring them later, when your main Hero is more powerful. Or you could choose to wait, which means you'll have to do a while without those secondary Heroes.
Of course, when two Heroes meet, you should have manual control over when you use the Mentoring option. Before clicking the button, you should be informed of the end level of the Hero being mentored.
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted October 21, 2015 10:35 AM |
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How about mentoring becomes grandmaster, also Town Planner and Recruiter should switch places.
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ChrisD1
Supreme Hero
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posted October 22, 2015 09:42 PM |
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i played a map and i completely built the paragon tree(rank 3).
I don't think the paragon skill is OP but the exp gain itself. But to be fair i had a set of items giving me 10% exp and even more 15% from paragon. so in the second month i was level 16 :S
i think paragon is cool. mentor could be toned down a little.
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TD
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 22, 2015 10:13 PM |
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I don't think the +15% exp makes any difference to be honest. Every game I've played I'm around level 25-30 at the end of 2nd month(all games on heroic betas included) regardless if I had paragon or not. Not to mention that you've lost 6 skill-points that could've been used elsewhere to boost the hero. The leveling is so fast that it makes no sense to waste points on paragon. Mentor is the only useful thing about the skill IMO
I have leveled one hero to 30 with paragon couple times, trained governors with mentor to level 22 and new main hero to replace the level 30 one. I doubt I would do that again though, the game is basically ending at that point soon anyway and the gov bonuses aren't really worth the trouble at that point of the game. So far only with necro that seems "smart" as you can do creeping early with Anastasya who lacks offense-skill so that level 22 hero is already much better despite being 8 levels lower(was playing hotseat and my friend quit at that point ). Not that necro really needs that though unless you have enemy necro against you too so there is actual chance that you could face an army that has realistic chance to win you.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 23, 2015 07:49 AM |
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Maurice said:
How about making it once only, per Hero? What I mean is that you level your main Hero and invest in Paragon. Then, once for each secondary Hero, you can have your Main Hero train him or her through Mentoring. That means you'll have to carefully pick the moment when you Mentor that secondary Hero as you can't do it repeatedly. You can do it early game, to quickly get a few secondaries up and running, but lose out on Mentoring them later, when your main Hero is more powerful. Or you could choose to wait, which means you'll have to do a while without those secondary Heroes.
Of course, when two Heroes meet, you should have manual control over when you use the Mentoring option. Before clicking the button, you should be informed of the end level of the Hero being mentored.
I actually think this is a really good idea. It would add some strategic depth to the mentoring skill which has always been needed!
Also, the mentoring process itself should have a small investment cost - like, both heroes need to have at least 75 % of their movement remaining and then use the rest of the day on the proces, or something like that.
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