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| Thread: Infernopolis and the like | |
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted July 01, 2016 04:38 PM |
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Infernopolis and the like
Well, I did notice in the past how people complain about Infernopolis from Heroes IV.
Personally, I think Infernopolis was a good change. Maybe it would've been less criticised if at least one more faction was fused, like Life and Nature (and then call it Life faction). By lore, if I remember correctly, the Kreegans were devastated after the war against Gelu, Catherine and Roland and retreated to a fiery plane, from where they joined the undead forces. Can't remember the details.
Because, really, why having the same faction over and over in the sequels, without any changes? It becomes boring, because you can expect which units are to appear, even their abilities. Otherwise there would be complaints, like no unicorn for Sylvan in Heroes VII, and replacing such units isn't better, either.
All I am saying is it only has to make sense and be well-argumented why certain faction should merge with others, just to make it an interesting change, and yet still have some units the faction would feel empty without.
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Ebonheart
Famous Hero
Rush the rush
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posted July 01, 2016 04:42 PM |
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I did not mind the merge, but I still think Death and Hell are best kept apart. Also, the one who made the new devils - how much did god pay you to make the devils look like that?
H3 Arch Devil = Only true Devil.
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PandaTar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Celestial Heavens Mascot
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posted July 01, 2016 04:44 PM |
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I'm one of those who played H4 rather a lot, and Infernopolis was, in fact, one of my preferred factions. What bothered me was mainly the visual design of units, more than the fact that there were demons and undead mingled (still have spasms whenever I see that Devil, and that ghost holding its own head ... *sigh*). But just like that, I got used to visuals, the unupgraded philosophy that I came even to like, the choices of units – H4 was a game that we had to persevere to really like, and Equilibris mod helped a lot with it later on.
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"Okay. Look. We both said a lot of things that you're going to regret. But I think we can put our differences behind us. For science. You monster."
GlaDOS – Portal 2
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted July 01, 2016 06:23 PM |
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Eh, I don't exactly have much against the creature designs. They don't bother me much, only if it is overdecorated with stuff that has no function whatsoever.
Regardless, isn't this an original concept? How many games do you know that fused demons and undead to be as one single faction? It's just sad, when it can be quite innovative.
Besides, what is the reason to hate such things? If it just the name of the faction, it could've been easily named as "Evil" faction and Life as "Good" faction.
As said before, I say it is just boring and monotonous to have a same faction over and over, with few creatures being changed. I guess things could change if more dwellings are added (like done with Heroes VII, that one could choose between two Champion creatures), but it has its limits. Heroes IV also did that part when you have to choose which dwelling to construct, but it didn't work out great, as a lot of times one creature works much better than the other one, like minotaur and medusa.
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Baronus
Legendary Hero
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posted July 01, 2016 07:29 PM |
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But it is not result of idea but fact that game is unfinished and fast packed. Ifrits and nightmares as we see is inferno design packed to warlock castle. The same is fusion inferno and necro. Correctly inferno magic heroes are in chaos. Black dressed like units. I agree that still the same factions will be boring but changes must be done with idea and plane no chaotic package.
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted July 01, 2016 07:37 PM |
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Well, maybe not efreets, since it is said, by lore, when the Kreegans came to the world, the efreets, who lived on Enroth, joined them, to conquer the world and make havoc. After they failed, the efreets did see it was no reason to stay around and joined the Asylum, the chaos town. Nightmares, maybe, but it would replace the venom spawn, making Necropolis the only faction without a shooter.
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BurntPhoenix
Hired Hero
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posted July 01, 2016 07:49 PM |
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Maybe in the planning stage to Heroes IV, for inspiration, they had looked back to King's Bounty, whose original iteration featured a demon atop the undead line-up's pecking order.
It seems like this mixing up of town types was to continue in NWC's version of Heroes V--- a so-called "Myth" faction was rumored to fuse together creatures associated with Warlock and Barbarian!
I definitely agree factions ought to have a distinct 'feel' in every game, which may involve hybridization or brand new inclusions.
The new inclusions should definitely fit however in whatever factions they were placed in--- this has been a problem in the Ubisoft era. I think in NWC's case, they could've done better with the 'Venom Spawn' concept--- for me, it doesn't seem well integrated as part of the demonic forces in H4's infernopolis (so yeah, that Nightmare would have worked much better and maybe an existing unit of theirs could have gained a shooting
ability?).
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted July 01, 2016 08:20 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
How many games do you know that fused demons and undead to be as one single faction?
Warcraft and they actually did it before Heroes XD
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted July 01, 2016 08:35 PM |
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GenyaArikado said:
Warcraft and they actually did it before Heroes XD
Good that Ashan brought originality to the franchise.
On topic:
I liked the idea of Infernopolis. How it was implemented, not so much. But it is something that I would love to see developed.
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verriker
Honorable
Legendary Hero
We don't need another 'eroes
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posted July 01, 2016 08:45 PM |
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EnergyZ said:
How many games do you know that fused demons and undead to be as one single faction?
King's Bounty (1991) XD
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LizardWarrior
Honorable
Legendary Hero
the reckoning is at hand
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posted July 01, 2016 08:52 PM |
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I didn't like Infenopolis, but I can't say I like Spiderpolis more, thanks Ubi!  To keep everything dynamic, there should be more freedom in making new factions, for example Heroes 2 added Necromancers and Wizards, Heroes 3 added Inferno, Fortress and even Conflux and Forge. Now after this we mostly got 1 new faction in the franchise per game and Erwin's ten commandments with "1.You shalt not include the 10th faction, or else the cosmic spider will eat your brains".
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EnergyZ
Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
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posted July 01, 2016 10:36 PM |
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verriker said:
King's Bounty (1991) XD
GenyaArikado said:
Warcraft and they actually did it before Heroes XD
King's Bounty is basically a predecessor to Heroes. Besides, I do not believe it didn't work out in those games, so why wouldn't the same apply to Heroes IV, then? If the argument is "Inferno and Necropolis have always been apart", well, times change.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted July 01, 2016 11:02 PM |
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I think Infernopolis could have worked better if there were more options than 1D/3U, 2D/2U, 3D/1U when uniting factions. Especially when coming from 6 and then 7 units.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted July 02, 2016 05:36 AM |
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frostymuaddib said:
GenyaArikado said:
Warcraft and they actually did it before Heroes XD
Good that Ashan brought originality to the franchise.
On topic:
I liked the idea of Infernopolis. How it was implemented, not so much. But it is something that I would love to see developed.
I didnt say they ripped it off from Warcraft, i was just answering his question  You should embrace the fact that Heroes has always ripped off, it just switched targets from DnD to Warhammer which is the actual source of "inspiration" for Ashan (most notorious in H5 dungeon and H6/7 Necropolis)
That being said i agree about mixed town concepts being cool, just that H4...H4ness made them awk. I did do an "Ashan mixed up towns" after all with an Infernopolis
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted July 27, 2016 08:38 PM |
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I didn't mind. Loved the kreegans role in the story in the original campaigns. And despite that I hated some of HoMM 4:s creature designs, Venom Spawn was really a beauty.
And if you wanted to play "just" Inferno or Necropolis, you could simply pick those creatures. I kinda liked the "Inferno" lineup, despite that I'm more of a Chaos guy.
Remember: part of the beauty of the real HoMM games was that the factions revolved around a "theme" rather than a "race". The Necropolis/Death town was the town of creatures connected to death. Not "the alliance of undeads and demons" per see. There was a substantial number of humans living in Nekross too, we learned in the campaign.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 03, 2016 08:22 AM |
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I never really liked Inferno to tell the truth, I always found the 'heaven and hell' duality with Haven to be rather annoying.
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