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| Thread: A disappointment |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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brody
Known Hero
Pathetic Loser
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posted April 12, 2002 09:04 PM |
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Edited By: brody on 12 Apr 2002
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"yeah, I wouldn't mind more creature types per town (6 or 7 would be good), but I think 5 is better than 14. Much less annoying"
Exactly . And 1 is better than 5 . No annoying at all .But that will be fixed in the patch . It will be only 4 towns with 4 creatures from wich we will pick 1. Aah... much better ... . But for real fix we will have to wait Heroes 5. There will be no creatures at all - The ultimate "annoying" solution. Furthermore, there will be neither singleplayer neither multyplayer at that moment (will be in the patch ) , but in that relese, NWC will include www adress from where we can download PDF manual " to learn to play this TOTALLY NEW GAME ."
Maybe you should read what I wrote about 6 or 7 per town being ideal. I think heroes 1 had the right idea there, and 2 was still good because it wasn't terribly confusing, but heroes 3 was just too many boring creatures. It was simply a race to upgrade structures. And if you have one town that's upgraded the dragon cave and one town that hasn't, you have to have a hero constantly running red dragons from town A to town B just to keep your dragons upgraded (until you get enough money/resources to upgrade town A). It was a waste of time to me, so yes, I think it's better to have quality creatures, not mass quantities.
If it were up to you, how many would you want in each town? 20? 30? Make it so level 1 creatures are useful only in week 1, level 2 for week 2, etc. I just don't see how 14 creatures was better when you ended up only using the top 4 in each town anyway (and they were really only useful after upgrading their structures).
Look at Civ 2 vs. Civ 3. Fewer "improvements" per city in Civ 3, and a lot of people like it because Civ 2 felt like you were just building to prolong the game, not to have fun. That's how I felt in Heroes 3.
EDIT: As for balance, why shouldn't a level 26 creature be able to beat many low-level creatures? A hero at level 26 SHOULD be powerful. It's a long process to get that high, and up to level 10 the heroes are weak as ****. Besides, take that hero up against 5-10 level 4 guys and see what happens. Against some he may win, but things like black dragons or titans will probably tear him up.
And in a typical game, your heroes should be fighting other heroes, not just creatures. That's like saying there's no balance because a hydra can kill a ton of level 1 creatures. It's obviously NOT an even match!
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted April 12, 2002 10:27 PM |
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"From 4th mission of first campaign forward I was going around with 6 heroes , no creatures.
Just for fun I tried to take town using just one heroe (26 lvl , GM combat , GM meele ). It was like : Celestial armour ,straight to the door, knock knock , whose first , whose second , regeneration , whose third ... thats it? no more creatures for my lonely heroe to slain ?"
A level 26 hero is its own army. You can take on a fair amount of creatures which such a hero. And campaign heroes tend to accumlate extra boosters to (jewels), as well as enjoying benefits to other things. The only reasonable way to combat heroes of this level is with your own high-level heroes.
"There was not so many creatures , around 350 weaker ones in total."
2 Vampires can single-handedly defeat (roughly) a company of level 1s. Seriously, what do you expect for a level 26 hero with developed combat skills????
A high level hero is a LOT more powerful than two Vampires.
"But there was more . Second one man show (with leatle help in healing from priest though) : 30 efereti , 7+6 hydras , forgot the rest but around 100 + in total .
Great balance?"
Late game Heroes are supposed to be this strong. In your case you've even developed the heroes over more than 1 map. (Carry-over hero from campaigns if I read you correctly.)
"The walls are low, but they are still above waist level, and that should make it hard for a creature like a Pikeman to stab someone behind it. I don't mind having this feature, but it's straining believability and realism."
The basic problem is that troop sizes are overdimesioned in relation to the city and the defence structures. And also that you don't want to obscure the troops by the walls because then the player cannot see the troops and that would yield more complaints.
"Also the arrow towers (which look more like huts) bestow a astonishing 100% increase to melee and range attack/defense skills of ANYTHING (!!) that steps on them. That is just too, too much of a benefit."
No, considering the cost of the Citadel and the Castle this is not too much. This is the ONLY real benefit you have.
Myself I never build these structures, unless I would be required to build them as a pre-requisite to another building.
Fact is: If you're keeping your troops cooped up in your castle then the opponent is steadily gaining an advantage over you. Developing heroes, gaining creatures from external sites, blocking of your caravan routes and so on.
"Not to mention, this drastically affects strategies in seige combats. An invading army's top priority becomes breaking through the gate and climbing up to the defenders' arrow towers! If I put a Level 4 creature on an arrow tower, it becomes practically invulnerable."
If you put a level 4 melee creature on a tower then the opponent will pelt it with missiles or spells and you won'št be able to retaliate. The strategy of pelting down the gate first thing is often a bad one, I've had much more success with other methods.
Overall the towers add a lot more strategy to sieges.
Heroes 4 is a strategy game, so why are you saying that it's a bad thing that they're making the game more strategic.
There's only one bad thing about the towers and that is in some situation they may incur a stalemate. The creature on it will not want to leave, the creature around will not want to attack while the creature is standing on the tower.
The Ai seems to attack anyway, but in play human vs. human it's another thing.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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brody
Known Hero
Pathetic Loser
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posted April 13, 2002 01:57 AM |
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I think they could add the attack from behind rule.. when you attack a creature from behind.. he doesn't retaliate at the same time because he's heading the other way.. in this game they will turn around(and the enemy will wait till the enemy is turned around, while they could have killed them from behind right away) that sucks.. I agree with that.
Finally, an intelligent idea... that would be pretty cool. If your troops are fast enough to run circles around the enemy, you'd have a distinct advantage (and you should). I'd be okay with even have simul. retaliation, but have it at like 1/2 strength.
Of course, you'd have to figure rules for first strike vs. attack-from-behind-rule. But I'm sure there could be something worked out without too much trouble.
Put this in the patch suggestions thread, if there is one.
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dz
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 13, 2002 12:50 PM |
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1st graphic: is not good at all (it is year 2002 now) water looks like blue grass no banks what so ever, all towns looks like squre fence with no diference exept for like skul in the middle, tha good thinh that town changes on the map then you build it but it still looks stoopid.and the creatures is total disapoinment i can mention couple here, 1st of all it is HOMM so it is not suposed to have creatures whitch is fun to watch for you 3 year old siter because it looks like something she saw on nickelodion expl:
LEPRCHAUN = looks like green uncle sam or some idiot from st. patrics days parade. SATYR = totally gay stupid face again to close to reality looks like NWC who ever made this creature hated somebody so they took their pic and made satyr. WHITE TIGER = any1 saw whinie the pooh?. UNICORN = no more grace looks like monopoly token. order creatures looks little better exep nagas has fat ass and titans skirt like a school girl.also all dragons looks like reptiles not dragons fat and stoooopid. SQUIRE = definately has somethin up his as* then walking. ANGEL = cant realy fly so uses his leg o help him. CEREBUS = also a cartoon charcter i would say angry pudel, then fire goes on looks like awar winning chiau-chiau. VAMPIRE = also as a fag. DEVIL = notdevilish.
CENTAUR = cherokee indian mixed w/ horse.HARPY = ........
NOMAD = lawrece of arabia?. BEHEMOTH = MICHEL JACKSON.SEA MONSTER = plug it into the outle and you dont need christmas tree.
2nd balance is not that bad. what i realy hate is that they put towns together why alchemist has dwarfs, treasury and inferno mixed this realy pised me off.
3rd lack of multiplayer is ok we need time to fish campains (i we will because it is preaty boring) hot seat that is what made homm so cool even than you have multiplayer you still play hot seat (turns) i still remember 4 sleeples night then i got homm2 and the same with homm3, now i can sleep no problem or try to think of how to modifie homm3 for 2002
4th sound is better than in homm3 but agree that best was homm2
5th there is no question that game is laging, and there is no problem runing anything else, by the was i have 5 pc's and i tried to put it on all of them same results game is UNFINISHED i have 2 notebooks p3 & k62, celeron 400 compaq, athlon 650, and athlon 1.4 all desktops is made by me and has no roblems with ny software on my athlon xp i have 1.5gb ram and gforce ti4600 and 3hdds 80/120/180gb so dont b*lsht that i it not enought for any game i run win me (xp sux) and linux for my ftp server
6th battle screen is preaty confusing as well as sensitve one click and you ranged creature is going somwhere i miss hex, hex gave ability to count you move very far ahead here you just do something, ranged retal is ok with me, preaty stupid that you cant ast spels if creature blocked though
7 agree 1000% all town similar building similar in the same place, totaly stoopid tha only thing i liked was caravan it is cool, on the other hane if you take the city and he has caravan ariving it arives and stll and belongs to them
8 creatures stoopid lev 4 is best i think but sti no money in this game, also creatures travels 3 time more than hero, last nite i was runing after computer hero like 6 turns and i ad gloves he didnot it so anoys me turs it too short
in general i dont car about 40 $ i spent but i am waiting for homm5 or homm3/2003 i will play for ecause i have to get tru it just for my love for homm but it was bigest disapointment in a decade 2002 is the year of LEPRECHAUN stoooooooopid
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Nebuka
Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
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posted April 13, 2002 02:07 PM |
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Quote:
I think they could add the attack from behind rule.. when you attack a creature from behind.. he doesn't retaliate at the same time because he's heading the other way.. in this game they will turn around(and the enemy will wait till the enemy is turned around, while they could have killed them from behind right away) that sucks.. I agree with that.
Wesley, that rule is already in the game, atleast I think it is...
Plenty of times my hero was attacked from behind and he/she didn't retaliate. Even archers who are adjacent to an enemy can shoot if that enemy has their backs turned at them...
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted April 13, 2002 05:00 PM |
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I agree to most extents.
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Heroes 4, well what can one say about this abomination of a game. Having played Heroes 1,2, and 3 this new release is definately sub-par.
In some ways its better in other ways the new changes suck.
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1. The graphics in the game are horrible (beautiful creature representation are replaced by wobbling sprites)
I disagree. The graphics look pretty nice. The adventure map is very beautiful. Some of the unit designs are bad though, and some look awkward and stiff when moving as well as slow. But some units and heroes look mighty fine. Did you know the female Sorceror (Chaos hero) with the red hair is actually a blonde? Put the cursor over her in combat and she removes her red haired wig and it turns out she has blonde hair! Every other unit also has similar animations when your cursor highlights them. That's attention to detail. But some of the character designs definately aren't as good as they used to look, such as the Phoenix.
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2. The game lacks balance.
I haven't played it extensively enough to come to that conclusion, and I doubt you have either since you returned it so soon.
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3. The game lacks multiplayer (never actually imagined a gaming company can sink so low. I mean what's next? Release intro, then release 1 game level at a time?)
They said it's coming in a patch. You will get it eventually, in the mean time people can play SP campains to keep them busy.
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4. The sound is tolerable at best.
I don't pay much attention to the sound, but the music is brilliant! Finally it is on par with Heroes 2. HOMM3 was disappointing without the opera. And finally it does more justice to the opera by having opera even in the adventure map music, and from the town after leaving the town screen. In H2 the opera ends as soon as you close the town window so not many people ever got to appreciate the music's beauty since typically you don't stay in the town for too long so the music feel is lost. Also every time you go back in it restarts to the beginning of the song which means you constantly only hear the first few seconds of the song. That problem is eliminated in H4.
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5. The game jitters and lags (in single player), even though I ran it on 733P3, 450MB RAM, GeForce 2 DDR, SB Live, 60GB HD.
True.
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6. The battle screen size is small, grid removed, and retaliation by ranged against ranged are allowed.
Agreed. This sucks.
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7. The new towns lack the atmosphere the give them their uniqueness.
Yes definately agree. They seem to only look nice on their native terrain. The Preserve on grass is a sight to behold. But in the desert it looks hideous. I didn't like the idea of having the true terrain show up on the town, it took away the feel asociated with the town from previous HOMMs. Inferno on Ice? Get real.
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8. There are only 4 level of creatures and no upgrades or creatures or buildings.
I don't really mind this. Everyone always builds the upgraded version anyway so no point having two versions. Save yourself the time and resources by not needing to upgrade the buildings. About the 4 levels, there are actually more than just 8 units for each alignment. There are some you can't recruit from the castle to make up for it. For example the Preserve has a Creature portal which effectively adds 6 or 8 more creatures to the roster. And with the lack of gold I doubt you could support 7 or 8 levels of creatures (and their dwellings) anyway.
There are other things that disappoint me, such as the lack of a battle log. The spell effects happen fast, and sometimes you don't know what the enemy cast, but there's no way to check the log. Lack of shadow grid in combat sucks too, and the fact that most units can't move more than 2 spaces and how there's way too many obstacles units get blocked all the time or have to waste movement by taking the long way around. Combat is definately not a good point in H4, though the QuickCombat option is welcome.
Its convenient how you can flag windmills and dwellings as well. The new Hero skill system is good, but the advanced classes is disappointing.
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted April 13, 2002 11:16 PM |
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Do I hear that the adventure map is beautiful?
...oh, no, it's not...let's take it piece by piece:
- and starting with the most important aspect: the castles.
Can there be any comparison between the castles of the h3 with these ones?No, because the latest look like square boxes,( and what is that skull doing inside the necro town?) They don't even sugest a town....
- mountains and other stuff: it takes a glance to see they're poorly designed, and fewer patterns than in h3...
- the bridges....horrible...
- the boats look ugly
- I understand that this is a magic ground, but please, where are the forests?All I see is an arboretum, with trees here and there...
Now the town screen: it sucks, as expected.All buildings lack imagination, and you can't identify a building by it's aspect, only by position, and this is the stupidest thing I've ever encountered in a game.They don't build a whole picture, they're only buildings scattered on hills.
The monsters:
- well, let's start with the "star", many's favourite, the vampire. It's even uglier than it was in the artwork.first, it wears what it wears, then it turns into a BLUE bat, than, guess what, it doesn't bite like a regular vamp would do, but he uses some laser beams or something (was it a tractor beam?...).It frightens me. I hate the venom spawn, but I have to admit that the spawn is far better than the vamp.
- all, and I mean ALL the other creatures move like ****.
Perhaps the guys could use a free advice from those who know how to make things work (AOE, for example) and walk.
And two more things:
- on the battle screen the walls and towers of the castle look like drawn by a 3 year old child with no hands.
- the music: I'm not a scot, so I don't have to stand that stuff that never ends...and to make things worse the music is not mp3...
The conclusions are clear...perhaps the lay-offs have a meaning...and a benefit.
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 14, 2002 12:40 AM |
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id have to agree with vlad the artwork is sloppy and lazy with no effort put in to it. Im sure the same building is used for at least 3 different uses (it looks like the same wooden hut is used for quests,peasants,trade)
Hey vlad i never understood the last two lines of your post what does it mean?
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted April 14, 2002 01:43 AM |
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Which ones? The lay-offs?
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted April 14, 2002 01:45 AM |
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Which ones? The lay-offs?
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MANE, TEKEL, FARES
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Darion
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 14, 2002 02:16 AM |
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Darion, this is what I really hate, saying that people (such as me) "want to believe that HommIV is spectacular" and that clouds my judgement of whether or not it's a good game. That's bull****. I know I like it better than 3 because I've played it since the day it came out and I find it more interesting each time I play. The heroes are more deep, the town alignments are more interesting, the spells are more well balanced (did anybody ever use quicksand or landmine in H3?), and I could go on.
Kay... I hold to a higher standard of excellence of what I think is best. That's everyone's personal opinion then, and we'll leave it at that.
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I don't make this up, I have my reasons for loving H4. You may or may not agree, but don't tell me that my opinion is wrong just because you don't share it. Also, people did see there was something wrong with the HOMM series: it was becoming stagnant. H3 was great, but it was just more-of-the-same from H2. A few new things, but no really big changes. I think doing a full makeover was a good idea, and I'm not the only one.
Yes perhaps a full makeover was needed... but not in this fashion. It was clumsily done, and I am astounded at the step back from the level of detail in the graphics and the unprofessionality of some of the work. And I really didn't say that you were wrong wrong... but if you want to take it that way that's fine.
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Last, simultaneous retal may not make sense to you, but it is hardly unrealistic - how often can we "assume" that in H3 all creatures are being caught by surprise? If there are 10 dragons fighting 10 angels, both sides will fight at the same time. Even if the angels are caught offgaurd, that wouldn't stop them from defending themselves. Yes, they'd have a tougher time of it, but they'd still fight back. Pikemen may be up against more when thunderbirds attack, but to say NONE of the defending pikemen get a chance to defend is absurd.
Okay... here I think that it is more realistic because I see Pikemen as inferior to Thunderbirds in defense, hitpoints, and speed. But that wasn't really what I wanted to say. I think I am correct when I say most games followed the other Homm games in their rulesets- attacking creatures strike first, followed by the attacked creature, unless the attacked creature has first strike. It is much simpler that way, and I don't see what was wrong with it (and yes, ranged retaliation is only half thought out)
I would also like to add that most of the creatures in Homm4 are not as beautiful or attractive as in Homm3. I don't pretend to know why, but I only hope that Homm5 will be the perfect game I thought Homm3 could have been.
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brody
Known Hero
Pathetic Loser
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posted April 14, 2002 02:00 PM |
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So you telling me all my ideas suck? And this is the first intelligent idea? Gee thanks.. you don't even know all my posts.... And you say this is the only intelligent.. Damn you then!
uh... calm down there, I was saying most of the "I hate simultaneous retaliation" posters have nothing useful to say, I wasn't saying your posts sucked. Maybe if you'd read how much I liked your post, you would have realized I wasn't trying to say something bad.
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brody
Known Hero
Pathetic Loser
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posted April 14, 2002 02:13 PM |
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the music: I'm not a scot, so I don't have to stand that stuff that never ends...and to make things worse the music is not mp3...
Uh... actually the music is mp3. It's not stored in individual mp3 files, but it is most certainly mp3 format. You can find an mp3 decoder library in the game's data directory (Mp3dec.asi), and the sound file itself (music.h4r) seems to be some sort of compressed resource file that has '.mp3' files all over the header.
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brody
Known Hero
Pathetic Loser
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posted April 14, 2002 02:36 PM |
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Wesley no problem, just wanted to clear that up real quick 
Quote from Darion:
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Okay... here I think that it is more realistic because I see Pikemen as inferior to Thunderbirds in defense, hitpoints, and speed. But that wasn't really what I wanted to say. I think I am correct when I say most games followed the other Homm games in their rulesets- attacking creatures strike first, followed by the attacked creature, unless the attacked creature has first strike. It is much simpler that way, and I don't see what was wrong with it (and yes, ranged retaliation is only half thought out)
This may make sense, but only one way. What if your thunderbirds can't make it all the way to my pikemen in one turn and so my pikemen get to attack first? Then my 1000 pikemen hit and kill 5 of your thunderbirds before the rest can retaliate. That is what doesn't make sense. Those pikemen couldn't even dream of sneak-attacking thunderbirds, yet they get the advantage.
Also, I know of other games that have simul retal. MoM was one, and even had units with the first strike skill. Also, games like Civilization 3 (and 2 as well, I think) and AoW have units instead of stacks, so unless a unit is outright killed (and that's not common in Civ 3), he gets to retaliate. That's almost like simul retal because he's still hitting with full power even after the attack. Because heroes uses stacks, there's no way to have "A hits B, then B hits A" without giving A an advantage.
I say ranged retal is okay, but if it were gone I wouldn't mind either...
Quote from Karlito31:
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Mixed creatures infact . There was squires ,pikemans , crosbowmans (around 60 on tower), monks and even 6 champions All with their "special" abilitys . And hero as well .And they were in town - you know : walls, towers, bonuses ... Its like Diablo now . Go and kill them all . yupy !!!!!
In diablo you are fairly strong from the get-go. In heroes, you have to work extremely hard to have a one-man army. I still see it as okay.
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2000+ pikemans 1200+ marksmans 800 griffins ... was quite fun to have ... There are strategies and strategies.
For the money, I imagine most people would buy angels, not pikemen. Money was more easy to come by in H3, but if you had enough to build that kind of army of pikemen (without sacrificing angels/champions/zealots/crusaders), you'd already won the game. And those 2000 pikemen were easily crushed by even a small army with decent spells.
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I understand that Civ 3 is not that good actualy. Never play though ...
Uh... just like everything, it has its lovers and haters. I like it better than its predecessors, and many others do (as happypike will say, check out civfanatics.com). 60-75% of people I've read from will agree it's better than Civ 2, however, and that was my comparison; and even more agree that the number of things to do in Civ 2 was overwhelmingly monotonous, as I think H3 was.
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Typical hotseat games are played on large + randomgenerated maps . At least here. There is lots of time and resources and all kind of bonuses to develop 4-5 superheroes. So , will we end up fighting with heroes only and maybie 4th level units for backup/decoys/ranged blockers ?
By the time you have a true one-man army, you've got enough level 4 creatures to defeat a hero of any level. I mean, 100 thunderbirds can be generated in a single town in 6 months, assuming NO nobility bonuses. In a more typical scenario, where you actually have more than one town, it doesn't take much time to create a good army of 200+ thunderbirds. Show me a hero who can actually defeat 200 thunderbirds and I'll be very impressed. In fact, 200 MEDUSAS can crush a level 40 hero (see my "Medusa stongaze tests revealed" post), so heroes are still better off with troops.
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Lets face it , Homm 4 is not bad game . Its just far from wath it should be .
Than again ,there will be patches and patches . Who knows ...
Well, can't really disagree here. I like it better than 3 myself, but it needs some patching. Hex grid, random maps, and MP are absolute necessities. Combat logs are fairly necessary as well, and it would be nice to see some AI improvements - taking a town from the AI is just too easy.
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 14, 2002 05:06 PM |
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- the music: I'm not a scot, so I don't have to stand that stuff that never ends...
this is what i never got?
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vladpopescu79
Promising
Famous Hero
a vampire of taste
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posted April 14, 2002 10:50 PM |
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- the music: I'm not a scot, so I don't have to stand that stuff that never ends...
this is what i never got?
Oh, I see...yes, the themes of surface and not only are scottish, and some people don't like scottish music.At least not that much of it.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted April 15, 2002 01:38 PM |
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Edited By: Djive on 15 Apr 2002
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I don't see what you have against simultaneous retaliation. So many creatures have ways to circumvent it so what's the bother?
No retaliation. => Never a need to bother.
First strike. => Only need to bother against other first strikers.
Spellcasters. => Never a need to bother.
Ranged attack. => Only need to bother against other ranged units, and then only if you don't have a melee unit engaging that unit. (The retaliation may hit other friendly units.)
Pikemen's attack => Usually no need to bother.
If you accumulate all of these you probably end up with about 50% of the units not having to consider simultaneous retaliation.
Wolf
Unicorn
Griffin
Phoenix
Leprechaun
Satyr
Earth Elemental
Air Elemental
Berserker
Ogre Magi
Thunderbird
Behemoth
Dwarf
Gold Golem
Squire
Crusader
Angel
Peasant
Bandit
Minotaur
Efreet
Nightmare
Black Dragon
Troglodyte
Pirate
Skeleton
Imp
Ghost
Gargoyle
Bone Dragon
Devil
Zombie
Mummy
Ice Demon
Sprite
Elf
White Tiger
Faerie Dragon
Fire Elemental
Water Elemental
Waspwort
Mantis
Centaur
Harpy
Nomad
Cyclops
Halfling
Magi
Genie
Naga
Dragon Golem
Titan
Crossbowman
Pikeman
Ballista
Monk
Champion
Orc
Medusa
Hydra
Evil Eye
Cerberi
Vampire
Venom Spawn
Missing some creatures. Have not listed Mermaids and Sea Monsters since you can't recruit them. (The only way to get some of these would possibly be charm/diplomacy.)
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For the money, I imagine most people would buy angels, not pikemen. Money was more easy to come by in H3, but if you had enough to build that kind of army of pikemen (without sacrificing angels/champions/zealots/crusaders), you'd already won the game. And those 2000 pikemen were easily crushed by even a small army with decent spells.
If you could recruit Pikemen for ALL your money it may well be a good idea to do so. The problem is that if you look at how much a town can prodduce you're not able to hire Pikemen for all your money, far from it. So you hire Archangels, because that stack become the most powerful very quickly. And having the most powerful stack on the battlefields is very desirable.
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I mean, 100 thunderbirds can be generated in a single town in 6 months, assuming NO nobility bonuses.
I'd say it would be extremely rare. You've also including the bonus for the Breeding Pen which is a stronghold specific structure. The T-bird building is very difficult to get within the first month because it requires Castle. T-birds grows faster than other level 4s. These combined you get 4.5 creatures/week instead of the normal 2.
A typical amount of creatures would be:
2 per week * 4 weeks/month or 8 creatures per month.
Usually, you would not get the dwelling until around month 2.
Usually you could expect a boost of at least Advanced Nobility (+20%). This is fairly easy to get and doesn't require a dedicated "Nobility hero"
8 per month * 1.2 is 9.6 or roughly 10 level 4's per month.
So end of month 2, you will have about 10 level 4s, end of month 3 you'll have 20. (And if you put an effort into it or are a very good player you could probably up these numbers a bit.)
Twenty level 4 are a sizeable force. And if they're devils you have very few ways of protecting your heroes against them. Martyr and taking away their turns are the only things which comes to mind. (Aside from swallowing some Immortality Elixir.)
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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RedSoxFan3
Admirable
Legendary Hero
Fan of Red Sox
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posted April 15, 2002 05:13 PM |
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I've only read half the post and haven't played Heroes 4 yet so I am still neutral to this game.
But it seems that all of your complaints are the things that you remember and liked in the old versions of Heroes. So far no one has complained that the game is less fun, because of these faults. Isn't this the real issue at hand?
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Go Red Sox!
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brody
Known Hero
Pathetic Loser
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posted April 15, 2002 09:00 PM |
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Quote:
I'd say it would be extremely rare. You've also including the bonus for the Breeding Pen which is a stronghold specific structure. The T-bird building is very difficult to get within the first month because it requires Castle. T-birds grows faster than other level 4s. These combined you get 4.5 creatures/week instead of the normal 2.
A typical amount of creatures would be:
2 per week * 4 weeks/month or 8 creatures per month.
Usually, you would not get the dwelling until around month 2.
Usually you could expect a boost of at least Advanced Nobility (+20%). This is fairly easy to get and doesn't require a dedicated "Nobility hero"
8 per month * 1.2 is 9.6 or roughly 10 level 4's per month.
So end of month 2, you will have about 10 level 4s, end of month 3 you'll have 20. (And if you put an effort into it or are a very good player you could probably up these numbers a bit.)
Twenty level 4 are a sizeable force. And if they're devils you have very few ways of protecting your heroes against them. Martyr and taking away their turns are the only things which comes to mind. (Aside from swallowing some Immortality Elixir.)
Actually, there are many level 4's that grow at 4/week. Hydras and champions are the two I know of for sure... in any case, though, the thunderbirds are rarely going to be grown for long without that breeding pit, and as that's the case, I have to include that in any example of thunderbirds...
Devils suck, that's all there is to it. They hit hard, they hit fast, they can't be slowed (even slowed their move is 25!!), and unless your hero is really fast, they hit FIRST...
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brody
Known Hero
Pathetic Loser
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posted April 15, 2002 09:04 PM |
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I've only read half the post and haven't played Heroes 4 yet so I am still neutral to this game.
But it seems that all of your complaints are the things that you remember and liked in the old versions of Heroes. So far no one has complained that the game is less fun, because of these faults. Isn't this the real issue at hand?
I think that's the main issue, people are very used to playing the game a certain way, and don't like the changes. I guess it all comes down to how adaptable you are willing to be. For some people, they really liked the old way and don't want to have to try a new way... and that's understandable. I guess only time will tell if the game is both accepted by old fans, and (hopefully) brings in new fans.
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