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| Thread: I believe it's time to divorce races from towns |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 03, 2016 10:26 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 22:55, 03 Aug 2016.
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Maurice said:
Sure does. Elven Core has the Hunters, so their skeletal forms would be a Skeleton with a bow. Haven could either have Skeletons with a crossbow (which operates differently than a typical longbow) or be melee with a shield and spear. Dungeon Skeletons could still wield two daggers, making them sneaky backstabbers. Like I wrote, imagination is the limit.
No brains, so any training is magically given, thus there's no actual difference between what a 'human' Skeleton can do and what an 'elven' one can.
Quote:
It was just to make JJ understand a bit better on what I meant when I said that being alive or undead is a state and not a faction and what that would mean for the various Towns.
And I actually agree with him that death removes most of the differences between creature types, so actually, Zombies, Skeletons or Lichs have very little if any difference from each other depending on their originating races, certainly not enough in the case of the former two to be worth bothering with from a gameplay perspective.
GenyaArikado said:
oh everything is supposed to be jusr examples so people got what i meant.
So we're allowed to make suggestions as to possible creatures? Also, how many factions per town will there be?
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 04, 2016 01:42 AM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 16:06, 04 Aug 2016.
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Quote:
not Goblin, Dwarven, Elven, Human, Naga, Demon Swordmen.
Mod edit
While my idea draws from AoW3, it transplants visual town identity to the "nation" denominator. Yours not only absolutely destroys factional identity but it draws to the point of actual ripoff of AoW3.
In any case stop posting your ideas here, make your own thread, its free 
MattII said:
So we're allowed to make suggestions as to possible creatures? Also, how many factions per town will there be?
All suggestions are open of course
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted August 04, 2016 02:47 AM |
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GenyaArikado said:
Quote:
not Goblin, Dwarven, Elven, Human, Naga, Demon Swordmen.
Neither is my idea. You dont seem illiterate so do you have some sort of disorder such as dislexia or are you just willfully ignorant?
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Ank's Old School (kinda) H8 proposal <- best thing evvah, trust me
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Blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted August 04, 2016 04:43 AM |
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Once upon a time I was on the race bandwagon, but I would love to see a theme based faction game again. There was always a little bit of a racial theme in H3, but it involved multiple allied races (eg minotaur, troglodyte, human). The only exception was castle.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 04, 2016 04:57 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 05:11, 04 Aug 2016.
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GenyaArikado said:
All suggestions are open of course
Okay, for starters, try to figure out the theme for each faction, So for example, make 'Haven' a tank faction, 'Stronghold' an assault one and 'Academy' a ranged/magic one say. Stretching it further, 'Fortress' could a mix of tank and ranged, and 'Dungeon' a mix of magic and assault. Also, you can maybe have some creatures that are common to two or more factions, but not universal across all of them.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 04, 2016 08:45 AM |
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MattII said:
GenyaArikado said:
All suggestions are open of course
Okay, for starters, try to figure out the theme for each faction, So for example, make 'Haven' a tank faction, 'Stronghold' an assault one and 'Academy' a ranged/magic one say. Stretching it further, 'Fortress' could a mix of tank and ranged, and 'Dungeon' a mix of magic and assault. Also, you can maybe have some creatures that are common to two or more factions, but not universal across all of them.
it's in the op. The intent is to keep the feeling of the current towns gameplay, hence "balanced" heaven, "offensive" stronghold, "defensive" fortress, "magical" academy and "debuffer" dungeon.
AnkVaati said:
https://i.imgflip.com/ghaw9.jpg
Of course, i'd be absolutely appreciative of JJ criticism if it didnt consist of "i missread your stuff, i ignore your posts afterwards and now im gonna write my bs here". By the way, are you by any chance Rashtakan21 dupe account? Because your obsession with me is like, real.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 04, 2016 09:10 AM |
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GenyaArikado said:
it's in the op. The intent is to keep the feeling of the current towns gameplay, hence "balanced" heaven, "offensive" stronghold, "defensive" fortress, "magical" academy and "debuffer" dungeon.
Ah, right, my bad. Still, it doesn't really come out that well, because we only have names of the creatures.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 04, 2016 09:15 AM |
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I wrote it above the examples, next to the towns XD
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 04, 2016 09:44 AM |
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Edited by kiryu133 at 16:03, 04 Aug 2016.
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you don't know your own suggestion:
GenyaArikado said:
Now with examples
Unicorn Empire Haven for example would be pretty much our typical heaven:
Peasant
Spearmen
Ballistamen
Knight
Angel
While Unicorn Empire Academy would go for something like:
Devout
Sister
Justicar
Knight
Glory
And Unicorn Empire Stronghold like:
Highlander
Swordman
Javelin Thrower
Knight
Landsketch.
So this are your 3 examples for 3 human towns, Haven, Academy and Stronghold, and you have 13 humans out of 15 creatures, a Spearman and a Javelin Thrower among them, while Knight being the one they all share.
That sucks, and it's also boring as hell. It's also stupid to think that a reduction to FIVE buildable units per town would met with something else than derision by the fans, if this would really be considered.
In this form the idea is really, really bad, and you should at least put some work into it, before you come up with half-assed ideas and then start insulting people for critisizing them for what they are.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 04, 2016 10:45 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 11:00, 04 Aug 2016.
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GenyaArikado said:
I wrote it above the examples, next to the towns XD
Yes, but we're only given the creature's names, no description whatsoever. F.E. what is the difference between a Highlander and a Swordman? And is the knight mounted on a horse or on foot?
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted August 04, 2016 04:05 PM |
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Another cleanup. Pray there will be no further.
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It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 04, 2016 04:57 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
So this are your 3 examples for 3 human towns, Haven, Academy and Stronghold, and you have 13 humans out of 15 creatures, a Spearman and a Javelin Thrower among them, while Knight being the one they all share.
That sucks, and it's also boring as hell. It's also stupid to think that a reduction to FIVE buildable units per town would met with something else than derision by the fans, if this would really be considered.
In this form the idea is really, really bad, and you should at least put some work into it, before you come up with half-assed ideas and then start insulting people for critisizing them for what they are.
I mostly have humans there because 1- I made this post in like 20 mins and (ideally) people would have understood the meaning of "example" and come up with suggestions and whatnot 2-Castle/Haven/Life always has consisted mostly of humans so design must be careful so despite of that transfer of identity from town (castle/haven/life) to "nation" (unicorn empire), said identity doesnt get lost.
Anything you do will get derision from the fans. In the end you'd still be opening 5 different styles of gameplay for each faction. Regarding the criticism and insults, again, its not my problem you dont read.
MattII said:
GenyaArikado said:
I wrote it above the examples, next to the towns XD
Yes, but we're only given the creature's names, no description whatsoever. F.E. what is the difference between a Highlander and a Swordman? And is the knight mounted on a horse or on foot?
By knight i meant the mounted knight.
By highlander i was thinking of a celt-like axeman (like...well...the movie highlander, although he had a sword) since i imagine that a viking or celt inspired lineup is what we would get if we made "haven" be "stronghold". As i said before, i'm open to see your lineups. Just understand that by humans/elves/orcs i dont mean just "humans/elves/orcs", i mean "humans, all their related creatures and possible new ones/ elves all their related creatures and possible new ones/orcs all their related creatures and possible new ones" and so on
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 04, 2016 05:33 PM |
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Well, I think it's YOU who doesn't read.
Look, the general opinion on H5 Dwarves was TOO MANY DWARVES. Also TOO MANY DARK ELVES. People want cool beats in that game, not a variety of racial Archers, Supports, Pikemen, Cavalry, Infantry and Irregular units, like they do it in AoW. This is not an option in HoMM, and the only faction this is tolerated is the human faction, but that's more or less a nod to the past.
So people want cool creatures, not humans, Elves, Dwarven and Orcish military.
Also, no one wants only 5 buildable creatures - what would that be good for?
Which means, the net result of your "cool idea" would be an increase in unwanted racial military units, and a decrease in creatures per town and monsters, making it the worst idea since the H7 skill wheels. Race is only a vehicle for town differentiation - the game might be better off without them.
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 04, 2016 07:32 PM |
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I'm literally saying "suggest creatures, the lineups un the OP are jusy examples (as in, non definitive and replaceable)"
That goes for the other people who want to reply however. You'll probably continue to be deliverately obtuse so stop posting here.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 04, 2016 09:36 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 21:46, 04 Aug 2016.
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GenyaArikado said:
By knight i meant the mounted knight.
By highlander i was thinking of a celt-like axeman (like...well...the movie highlander, although he had a sword) since i imagine that a viking or celt inspired lineup is what we would get if we made "haven" be "stronghold".
And that's the thing, I can't judge your lineups if I don't know what your lineups actually are. Also, a bit short on time right now, so I'll post more later, but what's happened to the Griffin?
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 04, 2016 10:08 PM |
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The point of the thread was to propose the idea and that we (as a community) proposed stuff such as lineups and specials so in the end, we (again, as a community) could more or less agree and be satisfied with it.
I accidentally skipped gryffins I thought i had put it in Haven. Same for the wolf (who i would have put in the Stronghold). I was also thinking white tigers and bladedancers could return for Sylvan elven stronghold. However i dont want my lineups judged because they were made just to give an idea of what i meant not because i properly brainstormed them or truly wanted them (perhaps except dungeon academy. I love my medusas and my matriarchs)
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kiryu133
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Highly illogical
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posted August 05, 2016 04:31 PM |
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Ok, let's get into this!
I could very well see this be the return of Heroes of might and magic by making the "races" into heroes instead. Say, instead of "elven" "sylvan" there would be "sorceress(ranger/druid/whatever)" "sylvan" which would be the classic nature faction we've seen to this day (having the good old Unicron, rangers, phoenix etc).
As JJ stated, every "town" would have some creatures and every "hero" would have some creatures which would then mix to form a unique "faction". See the sorceress/sylvan above. I also don't think we need to turn the creatures gotten from your chosen hero be a specific "race" but instead be whatever makes sense, like human druids or rangers.
So, going through each faction and town we can put together a pretty good lineup.
Heroes:
Sorceress:
Ranger
Druid
Phoenix
Overlord:
Evil Eye
Minotaur
Black Dragon
Wizard:
Mage
Djinn
Titan
Barbarian
Goblin
Ogre
Cyclop
Knight
Archer
Monk
Cavalier
Towns:
Sylvan:
Pixie
Unicron
Mantis
Dungeon:
Trog
Manticore
Hydra
Academy:
Gremlin/Cabir
Golem
Dragon golem
Stronghold:
Berserker
Roc
Behemoth
Castle:
Pikeman
Crusader
Angel
Necropolis:
special as most creatures would be undead and heroes starting here would always have access to necromancy etc
Ghost
Vampire
Wraith
note, not necessarily what I would consider good rosters but merely an example
Now for some mixing and how I would imagine that. Let's take
Knight - necropolis:
CORE
Skeleton pikes (pikeman)
Ghost
ELITE
Vampire
Lich (monk)
CHAMPION
Black Knight (cavalier)
Wraith
The knight's units are more or less turned into undead versions and, in the case of the monk, the classic lich since it's a magic creature. that way we'll get a bunch of different versions of necropolis without having to come up with a whole bunch of concepts, just turning the creatures dead. For example, skeleton ogres sounds pretty cool, right? wouldn't have been likely without this system.
I'll give another example
Overlord - Academy:
CORE
Argos energizer (Evil eye)
Cabir
ELITE
Minotaur
Puppet
CHAMPION
Black Dragon
Dragon tank
Here, we take the Overlord and turn it from an army of beasts and their masters to that of machines built for domination. With the hero standing in for theme (domination) the means changes from tamed beasts to robotic manufacturing. This is important both to characterize the factions but it also means we can get a larger number of creatures without necessarily bloating up the budget too much. Not every faction would have different golems and not every hero would have different dragon golems, meaning some could share.
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted August 06, 2016 10:13 AM |
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GenyaArikado said:
The point of the thread was to propose the idea and that we (as a community) proposed stuff such as lineups and specials so in the end, we (again, as a community) could more or less agree and be satisfied with it.
Okay then. I take it though that that you want the factions structured as you've done, with 5 tiers, and no upgrades, or are we allowed a little more free reign?
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GenyaArikado
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
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posted August 06, 2016 08:42 PM |
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I'd prefer if you keep it in that frame. I find 42 creatures per town + upgrades unlikely, both from balancing and art resources standpoints.
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AnkVaati
Famous Hero
Nighonese National Front
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posted August 07, 2016 12:51 AM |
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No upgrades is fine. Replace with creature choices as in H4.
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