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| Thread: GMOs / Dark Act / Monsanto makes huge mistake again |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV |
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 23, 2016 06:46 PM |
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I can hardly imagine anybody will conspire about the labeling when they were the ones who demanded it in the first place.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted August 23, 2016 06:59 PM |
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health is not enforced, its educated.
check out the link in my last post artu
"The blending of different racial stocks produces typical characteristics of either or both ancestral patterns. When, however, marked divergences appear without mixing of racial stocks, the result is not due to heredity, but occurs in spite of heredity. In the previous chapters, I have shown that in the modernized groups of various primitive racial stocks, ccrtain individuals developed marked changes in facial and dental arch form from the racial pattern. We are interested to know the nature of the forces responsible for this distortion of the ancestral pattern. In a study of 1,276 skulls of the ancient civilizations of Peru, I did not find one with a typical divergence from normal such as we find in modern whites or in children of primitive racial stocks after the parents have adopted the foods of our modern civilization. It is important that we study this phase in further detail."
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yogi - class: monk | status: healthy
"Lol we are HC'ers.. The same tribe.. Guy!" ~Ghost
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 23, 2016 07:28 PM |
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Nobody forces adults to use any medicine (unless there is a very contagious epidemic and a threat to masses) but not having your child vaccinated is another issue.
And since that book you linked is written by a dentist in 1939, I hardly think it has anything to say about genetic engineering.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted August 23, 2016 07:52 PM |
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted August 23, 2016 08:19 PM |
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Food develop a teeth, but American economics was force USA to genic food, you know that America believe in man, and American high technology mean development take simple high than alien, and America don't think it danger without knowing social system or alien able not to the same idea, and my state sold well, what I bought normal foods, try think other foods as trade mark
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted August 23, 2016 08:40 PM |
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They are paid to pass useful regulations that have a clear and scientifically-demonstrated benefit to the public. Public demand in itself shouldn't determine what becomes law and what doesn't.
Not alone but it's one of the main reasons why something should be regulated. At least in what is normally perceived as democracy. Regulated =/= banned or restricted, we are talking about nothing more than disclosing information to the public. I see no economic arguments why such labelling should not exist and you are yet to provide one that can actually hold water. And as artu mentioned, the parallel with the vaccines is poor at best, we are talking about a completely different scale of the issue and the required intervention.
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You cannot do this in the US or in Europe, no matter if you announce it or not. This is either a deliberate strawman argument or it just means you don't know a whole lot about food safety regulations.
It's actually a simple hyperbole, aimed at reminding you that there's some world outside of the US too.
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 23, 2016 09:13 PM |
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Corribus said:
Stevie said:
But you cleverly ignored me.
I didn't cleverly ignore anything. Aside from the fact that I don't think your posts addressed my questions at all: for professional reasons I shouldn't really post very much on this topic.
The benefit is that a right is being upheld, how does that not answer your question? But you're making it clear that you have a bias due to your profession, so if that's what you're trying to communicate then fair enough.
Meanwhile, Europe, Asia and other civilized countries enjoy the benefit of full transparency while the USA and other 3rd world countries are still at the mercy of corporate interest. But I guess that's just the natural order of things.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted August 24, 2016 06:42 AM |
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Edited by Celfious at 06:47, 24 Aug 2016.
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Think about this. Corporations are thought to work against humans. In otherwords we believe they want our money and provide services to get our money. In a lot of ways that is fair / should be fair. Corporations also work against eachother and with eachother in different ways , different agreements etc etc.. They make deals with one another but ultimately they seem to want to take over as much as they can. There is a lot of sleazy things happening from entities which have had control over 100s of years.
These particular GMO company / corporations that do not care about us and have the FDA in their pockets pretty much, polititians are signing the laws they wrtie, etc, etc,
And there is some kind of question about why we want labels?
They are taking over the worlds agriculture as "intellectual property"
**** gmos I do not want my money flowing their way, and thank you stevie for that consumer bill of rights quote
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What are you up to
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted August 24, 2016 06:27 PM |
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It's not obvious that intellectual property in GMOs is bad. Companies need incentives to spend money on research and development when the end result can be copied by others. Of course, it's quite possible for intellectual property protections to go too far, or be unnecessary to begin with because copying is hard, but we can't dismiss them a priori.
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Eccentric Opinion
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frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
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posted August 25, 2016 09:42 AM |
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Edited by frostysh at 10:05, 25 Aug 2016.
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artu - I think you are to considered about the capitalism stuff, IMHO, and your post looks like a posts of a leftist guy (especially ~50-years old soviet propaganda photo in the frigging Afghanistan  ), and in the my own point of view the all left-wing guy's ideas sux by default  (the almost the same as their right-wing blood brother' and sister' stuff).
But anyway, thank you for an information provided, about the India food problems in the past. +1 a very good example. IMHO.
Celfious - I just typing that you must be little bit more accurate, when you talking about the stuff that has been published by the organization that positing itself as a secret one.
The paper is the one thing, and the what actually happens is usually a truly different things. . .
The Cannabis danger is mainly not in 'toxins' that will harm your kidney, but in the toxins that will make a changes in your brain structure, I think this fact is rarely making a serious damage to the adult (after 25) age users, but ah, in case of the teenagers of which the brain is still growing, this fact will make a horrific result,
I mean if the 12-old year user will consume the Cannabis in the drug-like doses regularly by time, of course he/she will not become a plant-like zombie, and from the outside he/she will looks like the other but when you will perform a datelined scanning of his/her Brain, you will obtain a pity picture . . IMHO.
As for my own, in my chilhood I know a many children that was affected to the alcohol + cannabis + everyday smoking tobacco, usually they starts to do such things in the ~12 year old, but one of them started to use a drugs in the 7-years old, he started from a smoking, then beer-like stuff, then heavy alcohol like stuff, then cannabis (for now he is dead, died recently). From the outside view, this children is looks like a children who does not using a drugs, but when you are in close to them for a some time, you will find a many differences in their habit and stuff.
So I just have warned you, that the Cannabis in the drug-like doses is a far more dangerous than it is described, especially for a young ones.
yogi - yogi, dude, now you are scaring me even more  .
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you people are way too snowing trusting of the powers that have historically enslaved you, i can only assume out of confusion for how to take charge of your own lives, or the immaturity to accept the fact that half the planet lacks the fortitude to deny their weaker instincts and are actively seeding selfishness and confusion.
Yogi, man of what the hell you taling about .if Your meditation-energy elevator has crackled in some way - just go fix it .
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every farmer on the planet knows that if an animal has to have its molars removed, its a result of malnutrition, but for people its evolution?
yogi, man, I have know a dog, that lose almost the all of his teeth during a truck indident, and broken his spine a many time ago, then he was shooted into his back, and this dog is still alive for today.
Of course, the losing of some teeth is a serious problem in the Nature, but how you can connect the molars losing to the frgging peoples evolution, I do not know for sure, and the main question - Hell why?
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http://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200251h.html : ch 17 is the most pertinent.
Ohh yogi, man . . . This mr Price, the author of his 1939 year book, was a little bit strange mad :L .
Weston Andrew Valleau Price
Seems to this guy, the aberehenal and tribal stuff that controversy to the modern society was always important, that point of view has been published by mr. Price in the 1894 A.D., in the age of 24 years, comparing this to the fact that mr Price born in the small town that was on the border with farmlands, in the the time of a rapid industrialization era, can provide us with a reasons of why the hell mr Price feel so hate tot he modern society. . . There is a strong and healthy, dark skinned because of everyday work outside of house, rural guys, and the city fella that was have no gyms for them .
His famous book about the nutrition stuff was published in the 1939 A.D. . There was a pity years when the humans have a little know about a danger of a many modern drugs, and the dangerous substances, for human health
i.e. in the TV-series that I very like to watch sometimes, you can found many episodes where characters is smoking, and even the lector that explaining about the episode is smoking too.
Rod Sterling explaining about the episode by name "Most Unusual Camera" of the The Twilight Zone series, with a smoking device in the left hand. - 1959 A.D.
This is the same, as nowadays the everyday TV-news lector make a smoke when speaking about a weather .
As we can see - the early industrial society have a leak about the everyday industrial health risk care, comparing to the nowagays, the many things that can harm the health of the human has been created but a very little warnings and the information was about. The same situation in the friggin *stans rural areas for nowadays (I have a bad humor, I know . . )
So mr. Price made his travel in the poor, rural areas of the world, made his sex with tribal women, and made his famous work.
The first thing that we can say about it is a very dangerous when the huge statistical work were performed like a work of mr Price was, by only one man!
You have a very big risk, that this statistical data will be a too . . , a too subjective. And I fear, this what actually happened with a mr Price work.
According to the someone, called himself a Stephen Barrett, M.D., mr Price works is a nonsense, and mr Price himself was a too far from a real Scientist in his work.
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Much of "holistic dentistry" is rooted in the activities of Weston A. Price, D.D.S. (1870-1948), a dentist who maintained that sugar causes not only tooth decay but physical, mental, moral, and social decay as well. Price made a whirlwind tour of primitive areas, examined the natives superficially, and jumped to simplistic conclusions. While extolling their health, he ignored their short life expectancy and high rates of infant mortality, endemic diseases, and malnutrition. While praising their diets for not producing cavities, he ignored the fact that malnourished people don't usually get many cavities.
My Concerns about "Holistic" and "Biological" Dentistry
The more suspicious we become when we have read some chapters from a mr Price work, the almost all chapter full of sentences like this one: " This problem of progressive degeneration . . . ", "so-called modern civilization" this sentences cannot illustrate the reality but can only illustrate the self-opinion of the author to the particular models of human societies, and this is obviously not a habit of Scientist who is need to be a far from self-concentration ideas and emotions.
Also we can remember that the entire Earth population of humans, usually was something near few millions, and usually humans was short and even the simplest pneumonia was a unbeatable human killer.
That because the population of a London in 1 000 A.D. was a few thousands, and population of a Baghdad in the same time was a 1-2 millions . . Not because the British guys was less healthy, but because of a life, and particularly Medicine level.
The human population can rise from a few millions to the few billions only by a ~500 years, that was not happens through a 20,000 years of human history, only after industrialization and Scientific progress this can be possible.
So the frosysh conclusions about the "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration": This work sux, and illustrating mostly the author emotions, and his own imagination, but there was some interesting facts, especially I like that the author is using the terminus of so-called primitive races, I think that is means the author is a far from the pity guys which brutally connecting the races and the level of the Technologies.
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"science" is not your daddy, omnipotent, authoritative. its an ever expanding school of theories that more often than not proves itself to be WRONG.
these days its just a marketing ploy by the highest bidder.
i say this as someone who spends all day in a usda lab full of mass specs.
Yogi, dude :L, for first I thought to unleash a tons of the sarcasm on you for this nonsense, but I will try to be polite as I can. 
Do you know what a hell the Science is? - The Science can be called something that have a theories and the experimental confirmation of this theories. A many, a MANY experimental confirmations of the only ONE single thing in the different as possible conditions.
i.e. If the Elephant have DNA ugly stuff, the Monkey have DNA ugly stuff, perhaps the Humans have it too! And perhaps the almost all living creature!
i.e.2 If on the North Pole the Apple falling to the center of Earth, perhaps on the Equator the same will happens! Perhaps the Moon like the Apple, affected by this force too! Perhaps the all bodies in the our Solar System, our Galaxy, the frigging whole Universe bodies suffer the power of such force!
Do you know what means omnipresent in the Science? - Nothin', if some theories and figures for nowadays is looks like a omnipresent in Science, that is not means that the Science is religion, that is means that no one, NO ONE YET, have made a satisfying clues to distract or make this theories an obsolete. (in public I mean)
The Science is a full of doubts, the Scientists have a doubts in every thing and everything. This is somekind of nature of a human brain, the default habit of a human brain, to have a doubts.
What a similar the Science have with marketing? - The Economic is a Science about a human' economical stuff.
What means if someone who spent a life in the Labrador, oh I mean laboratory :L, saying that the Science sux? - Nothin', if that someone have a no clues. 
So yes, indeed, the Science is not your daddy, and not an omnipotent, authoritative , this is a far more objective and powerful something, this is a Nature, but presented as a human recognizable stuff.
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted August 25, 2016 11:45 PM |
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Edited by yogi at 23:47, 25 Aug 2016.
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frostysh said:
According to the someone, called himself a Stephen Barrett, M.D., mr Price works is a nonsense, and mr Price himself was a too far from a real Scientist in his work.
this is exactly my point... science is critical thinking, something both frostysh and stephen barrett md apparently lack in dire.
frostysh said:
Quote:
Much of "holistic dentistry" is rooted in the activities of Weston A. Price, D.D.S. (1870-1948), a dentist who maintained that sugar causes not only tooth decay but physical, mental, moral, and social decay as well.
(artificial) sugar is a stimulant, which does cause tooth decay, as well as physical, mental, moral, and social decay; however this is the least prolific of the conclusions by WESTON A. PRICE, MS., D.D.S., F.A.G.D.
Member Research Commission, American Dental Association
Member American Association of Physical Anthropologists
frostysh said:
Quote:
Price made a whirlwind tour of primitive areas
his tour was not "whirlwind", nor solely of primitive areas.
"III. Isolated and Modernized Swiss
IV. Isolated and Modernized Gaelics
V. Isolated and Modernized Eskimos
VI. Primitive and Modernized North American Indians
VII. Isolated and Modernized Melanesians
VIII. Isolated and Modernized Polynesians
IX. Isolated and Modernized African Tribes
X. Isolated and Modernized Australian Aborigines
XI. Isolated and Modernized Torres Strait Islanders
XII. Isolated and Modernized New Zealand Maori
XIII. Ancient Civilizations of Peru
XIV. Isolated and Modernized Peruvian Indians"
frostysh said:
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, examined the natives superficially, and jumped to simplistic conclusions.
his examinations were not superficial in the least, "The research materials include some 15,000 photographs, 4,000 slides, and many filmstrips"(wpedia), nor his conclusions remotely simplistic...
frostysh said:
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While extolling their health, he ignored their short life expectancy and high rates of infant mortality, endemic diseases,
he was not researching "life spans, infant mortality, and endemic diseases in natives", but rather "marked changes in facial and dental arch form from the racial pattern. We are interested to know the nature of the forces responsible for this distortion of the ancestral pattern."
frostysh said:
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and malnutrition. While praising their diets for not producing cavities, he ignored the fact that malnourished people don't usually get many cavities.
the entire paper posits that physical degeneration is the result of malnutrition, wtf is "someone, called himself a Stephen Barrett, M.D.," talking about
science is not letters next to your name, its data. just data. the data shows that consumption patterns impact heredity, degeneratively when drastically removed from evolutions natural order (even selective breeding). ill post a link to an obtuse report by someone with lots of letters next to their name regarding the impact of gmo consumption on heredity in a century. personally im not interested in subjecting my family as someone elses guinea pig in the interim.
____________
yogi - class: monk | status: healthy
"Lol we are HC'ers.. The same tribe.. Guy!" ~Ghost
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markkur
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Once upon a time
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posted August 26, 2016 05:11 PM |
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Celfious said:
The road providing our existence might be closing. I feel pretty much safe in spiritual terms but right now I see the plate life has handed me and I only feel compelled to hope and perhaps even try to help.
Ditto here. I think the powers have wanted to do three things, make the consumers continue to consume, entertain (not by my definition) and also make the masses withdraw from non-internet civic activity. <imo>They have had stunning success at all three.
However, we need to think out of this box, unite and stop accepting their divisionary assault tactics.
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frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
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posted August 26, 2016 08:39 PM |
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Edited by frostysh at 20:59, 26 Aug 2016.
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I am feel very sleepy, I will try to no shut off till the end of my post.
yogi -
yogi said:
this is exactly my point... science is critical thinking, something both frostysh and stephen barrett md apparently lack in dire.
We will return to the meaning of the Science further in the post.
Not only Stephen Barett, M.D., William T. Jarvis Ph. D., have criticized mr Price works too, this is the critics from a wikipedia, suddenly for now I have not find his article for free yet, and to buy it I have no money.
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A 1981 editorial by William T. Jarvis published in Nutrition Today was more critical, identifying Price's work as a classic example of the "myth of the healthy savage," which holds that individuals who live in more technologically primitive conditions lead healthier lives than those who live in more modern societies. The review noted that Price's work was limited by a lack of quantitative analysis of the nutrition of the diets studied, and said he overlooked alternative explanations for his observations, such as malnutrition in primitive societies and overindulgence in the Western diet, rather than the diet itself, as a cause for poorer health. The review makes the assertion that Price had a preconceived positive notion about the health of primitive people, which led to data of questionable value and conclusions that ignored important problems known to afflict their societies, such as periodontal disease.[26]
So let me poses the one variant of how things going on:
mr. Price born and living in the time when the Germs Theory only has been developed, the X-Rays only has been discovered, when the Urban Areas with high population density comparing to the rural areas have suffered a poor sewers system disadvantages, a spreading of epidemic diseases, and so on.
The work conditions in the time of a living mr. Price was something like a nowadays job on the Aliminium Production Facility in the Pakistan ,
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In 1900, American factory workers faced harsh, grueling work for little pay.
What Were the Work Conditions in American Factories in 1900?
The Public Healthcare Organizations? Its has been only created not working as it need for yet. Even the frigging penicillin has been discovered something near 1922 A.D.
The food production, the radiological, the dengerous substances control ?
Quote:
Meat, seafood, and poultry processing have been small but continuous pieces of Philadelphia’s food processing history from the industry’s beginning. (Special Collections Research Center, Temple University Libraries)
Food Processing
The modern food facilities in that time creating a food for millions, that is all, and that millions did not died after consuming of this food - that is all .
So the main thing is next: the early industrial societies suffering from a multiple issues in the time when mr. Price living. , i.e. in the 1894 A.D. when mr Price start to develop his nutrions-holistic stuff. . .
Then mr Price took his way to the hell holes like areas, where of course an Urban Life Conditions was much more worst than in the Uncle Sam paradise.
In addition to that the early industrial societies was a many issues with dangerous substances pillage like a metal oxides and so on.
IMHO. ~1850 A.D. to ~1950 A.D. 100 years of a poor health care is truly enough to make a damage to the next generation teeth in the high density Urban areas.
And after a many photography stuff mr. Price complained his brilliant conclusion about the degeneration of the modern society, and repeating this conclusion ~100 times per his book  . But you, even if we can take out a critics (a very good reason critics) of the mr. Price holistic denti stuff, the modern industrial society is a far more different from what the mr. Price has faced...
In general, now you can go to the gym and become like Achilles was, now the parents can read about a nutrition, about a teeth hygiene for a children and become they teeth like the Cayman have And of course a hell lot amount a Scientist will care about the public health today in US.
So again, the mr Price work is a little bit more than describing a self imagination of the world around. The life condition in which mr Price lived, take it's role.
yogi said:
(artificial) sugar is a stimulant, which does cause tooth decay, as well as physical, mental, moral, and social decay; however this is the least prolific of the conclusions by WESTON A. PRICE, MS., D.D.S., F.A.G.D.
Member Research Commission, American Dental Association
Member American Association of Physical Anthropologists
Please, mr/mrs yogi explain to me how the mr Price can suggest that the sugar is stimulant without any proper devices and technologies such as a Brain Scanning procedure.
I mean how mr. Price can distinguish in this case a sex like a stimulation of some neuron circuits and a sugar? Explain me please like for a fool. Or mr. Price just made ah, hmmm, a religious like suggestion? So the mr Price is liked to make a self-satisfied conclusions that can be a poorly connected to the reality? .
Perhaps I am wrong, so explain the situation to me, please.
yogi said:
his tour was not "whirlwind", nor solely of primitive areas.
"III. Isolated and Modernized Swiss
IV. Isolated and Modernized Gaelics
V. Isolated and Modernized Eskimos
VI. Primitive and Modernized North American Indians
VII. Isolated and Modernized Melanesians
VIII. Isolated and Modernized Polynesians
IX. Isolated and Modernized African Tribes
X. Isolated and Modernized Australian Aborigines
XI. Isolated and Modernized Torres Strait Islanders
XII. Isolated and Modernized New Zealand Maori
XIII. Ancient Civilizations of Peru
XIV. Isolated and Modernized Peruvian Indians"
And this travels and observations, has been made by a single man, which have a , ahh, a very strong opinion about the world surrounding him, which take it's affect in his work.
I mean such huge statistical data gathering, would be better to did not gathered by a single man, we have a HUGE danger for a subjective stuff prevail over objective . . .
In addition to that fact, the Urban Areas in the above mentioned hell holes, have even less health care than this particular areas in the Europe and US.
yogi said:
his examinations were not superficial in the least, "The research materials include some 15,000 photographs, 4,000 slides, and many filmstrips"(wpedia), nor his conclusions remotely simplistic...
You cannot perform the deep analysis of such problem with an instruments that was available in the time when mr Price lived. i.e. He cannot made even a proper analysis of the blood that has been took from a human. Just a photos and the conclusions of a single author, nothing more.
There are a too many factors that mr Price can missed 
yogi said:
he was not researching "life spans, infant mortality, and endemic diseases in natives", but rather "marked changes in facial and dental arch form from the racial pattern. We are interested to know the nature of the forces responsible for this distortion of the ancestral pattern."
And this changes can be caused by a many factors, genetics is a very complicated thing. And a very suspicious, the individuum selecting to the book of the mr. Price, I think in the nowadays there is not such differences in the tribal and urban humans especially in the US where is Health care system a very good.
Lol the nature that responsible for a changing of the ancestral pattern can be a simple high rate of the genetic mix in the modern society and especially in the urban areas, the bad teeth can be result of a heavy metal oxides pillage (which was out of control in that times...) or something like that.
As I said, a many factors was that mr Price cannot check in any ways.
yogi said:
the entire paper posits that physical degeneration is the result of malnutrition, wtf is "someone, called himself a Stephen Barrett, M.D.," talking about
science is not letters next to your name, its data. just data. the data shows that consumption patterns impact heredity, degeneratively when drastically removed from evolutions natural order (even selective breeding). ill post a link to an obtuse report by someone with lots of letters next to their name regarding the impact of gmo consumption on heredity in a century. personally im not interested in subjecting my family as someone elses guinea pig in the interim.
yogi, man you need spent a less time with your meditations elevators and in your Laboratory and please, do not mixing it together to avoid something like that!
. I am joking.
Because if you think that the Science is just a data, i.e. you putting some substance into your device, and viola - Carbon Acid Concentration is 70% , you are wrong. IMHO.
You see the Science is not only a data. This is somekind of the art to see in a darkness, to look through the void.
i.e. The everyday you can see the sunrise and the sunset, the Sun is huge disk at the skies. The data showing to you that this disk traveling on the skies, every day, with almost the same trajectory  . But the Science, it is not just make a picture of this things.
And in the someday you are realized that the disk is not traveling over the skies! But the Earth is rotating! And hallelujah, oops, I mean euarecka!
i.e.2 Yo looking to the mountain , it is looks like a monolith, but you know that the stone can be divided by a small pieces, this small pieces can be divided too, and in the end you will obtain somekind of a sand. You making a prediction about the all matter may consist of the some elementary particles!
In the any times, will be a peoples which will deny the new technologies, such as GMO, and this is a normal way of things, because the new technologies can be dangerous, when its applying to the large masses of peoples, indeed, but the Scientists cannot listen to this peoples, and they will not, the Human Society Progress itself, cannot be stopped, the rapid changing, the evolve, the diverse - this is the main factor of the nature of the humans. IMHO.
The frostysh conclusions about the mr Price work now: mr Price work not only sux, but it is also an obsolete and archaic. Mr Price tried to look through void, and explain the reasons of a some changes between a rural peoples of the past and the modern urban folks, to study it by available to him instruments, but he is failed. William T. Jarvis Ph. D., and Stephen Barrett, M.D., the modern Scientists providing a good explanation why. Mr Price' holistic dentistry and homeopathy like stuff have a poor connections to the reality, to the Nature.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 26, 2016 09:22 PM |
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Edited by artu at 21:23, 26 Aug 2016.
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Quote:
science is not letters next to your name, its data. just data. the data shows that consumption patterns impact heredity, degeneratively when drastically removed from evolutions natural order (even selective breeding)
Simply, no. Science is the interpretation of that data and in this case Price skipped a lot:
"Price knew that when primitive people were exposed to "modern" civilization they developed dental trouble and higher rates of various diseases, but he failed to realize why. Most were used to "feast or famine" eating. When large amounts of sweets were suddenly made available, they overindulged. Ignorant of the value of balancing their diets, they also ingested too much fatty and salty food. Their problems were not caused by eating "civilized" food but by abusing it. In addition to dietary excesses, the increased disease rates were due to: (a) exposure to unfamiliar germs, to which they were not resistant; (b) the drastic change in their way of life as they gave up strenuous physical activities such as hunting; and (c) alcohol abuse."
And even if we consider his mostly outdated and controversial theory valid for the sake of argument, industrial sugar is a chemically processed product, not genetically engineered. That is drastically different. The unhealthy effects of consuming too much sugar is not a secret today, and even if Price was correct, you can't just take Price's findings on 1930's sugar products and use it as a point to prove the hypothetical effects of today's GMO's. That is a completely arbitrary jump which only stands on your prejudice. But you don't even stop there, you then extrapolate your disapproval to ALL selective breeding which is simply what we call farming. I'm not even sure what you're suggesting here, that 7 billion people switch back to hunting and gathering, which is physically impossible anyway, or that the ones who can't should simply starve in order to not be less healthy.
____________
Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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yogi
Promising
Famous Hero
of picnics
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posted August 29, 2016 08:44 AM |
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Edited by yogi at 08:55, 29 Aug 2016.
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science is not debating with some random guy on the internet, but keen, critical observation, research, meticulous cataloging, and detailed data; verifying the truth for yourself..
* http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/opinion/sunday/breeding-the-nutrition-out-of-our-food.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271383352_Nutrition_Value_of_Wild_Animal_Meat
"Nutrition Value of Wild Animal Meat
The results of the conducted research suggest that game meat samples have higher protein and essential fatty acid content in comparison with domestic animals."
http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.hunting-game-nutrition-value.html
"Nutrient content of wild game meat vs domesticated meat.
Surveys show that carcasses of domesticated animals have 25 to 30% fat while the average fat content of wild game animals is only 4.3%."
artu said:
"Price knew that when primitive people were exposed to "modern" civilization they developed dental trouble and higher rates of various diseases, but he failed to realize why. Most were used to "feast or famine" eating.
lol
http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/guts-and-grease-the-diet-of-native-americans/
artu said:
When large amounts of sweets were suddenly made available, they overindulged.
lol
this is like reading a childrens book
http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/the-usdas-pyramid-scheme/
artu said:
Ignorant of the value of balancing their diets, they also ingested too much fatty and salty food. Their problems were not caused by eating "civilized" food but by abusing it.
lol
in other words: scant natural foods and over-exposure to "civilized" food does indeed cause deterioration.
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/03/nutrition-a-pressing-concern-for-american-indians/ - scroll down and start reading at "Poverty: A Leading Contributor"; and if i might add a subtitle, "civilizations greatest innovation".
artu said:
In addition to dietary excesses, the increased disease rates were due to: (a) exposure to unfamiliar germs, to which they were not resistant; (b) the drastic change in their way of life as they gave up strenuous physical activities such as hunting; and (c) alcohol abuse."
lol
+3 for urbanization
artu said:
And even if we consider his mostly outdated and controversial theory valid for the sake of argument, industrial sugar is a chemically processed product, not genetically engineered. That is drastically different. The unhealthy effects of consuming too much sugar is not a secret today, and even if Price was correct, you can't just take Price's findings on 1930's sugar products and use it as a point to prove the hypothetical effects of today's GMO's. That is a completely arbitrary jump which only stands on your prejudice.
to be precise, the work of mr. price, and others, does not simply suggest that sugars weaken our immune system, but also that a decline in the consumption of animal products degenerates our lineage. stretch the food chain, break the links. a body is designed to process foods from the environment that spawned it. this really isnt rocket science.
accumulating enough data reveals patterns and trends. in nature drastic fluctuations generally stunt progression.
im still waiting for someone to link me to a bunch of data on the benefits to heredity of gmo consumption. the children of tomorrow are the solutions to the problems of today. this is evolution. consuming gmos prior to evaluating this data would be highly unscientific; and no experiment is worth compromising the health of our children.
artu said:
But you don't even stop there, you then extrapolate your disapproval to ALL selective breeding which is simply what we call farming.
see first link *
artu said:
I'm not even sure what you're suggesting here, that 7 billion people switch back to hunting and gathering, which is physically impossible anyway, or that the ones who can't should simply starve in order to not be less healthy.
your family is your responsibility.
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted August 29, 2016 12:20 PM |
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Edited by artu at 12:45, 29 Aug 2016.
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Opening up with a straw man and linking irrelevant articles isn't science either.
The first article suggests that when we grow plants, our priority should be their level of nutrition, not taste or looks. It does not go against GMO's (or artificial selection) in principle, it objects to our priorities while applying it.
And then, you link another article about how wild animals have less fat than domesticated ones (not surprising at all since they are constantly on the move) but how is that, once again, relevant to any of the objections here?
Then we come to the best part:
Quote:
in other words: scant natural foods and over-exposure to "civilized" food does indeed cause deterioration.
Over-exposure to WATER will also give you health issues, you drown.  The over-exposure part is the part you should be focusing on, not ignoring.
Quote:
lol +3 for urbanization
Sitting in your house with electricity, clean water and sewage system, discussing things with people from cities around the world over the internet, you are not exactly "the noble savage" yourself, are you, Yogi? Inform us on how it goes when you move to the jungle, you can try pigeons to send us a message.
And of course, trying to refute the general consensus on Weston A. Price's theories by linking Weston A. Price Foundation(!), which btw, has only around 10.000 members and which is on Quackwatch, is not the best example of "critical thinking" that you seem to be so fond of.
Quote:
i'm still waiting for someone to link me to a bunch of data on the benefits to heredity of gmo consumption.
So, I guess, the links which explains how India was rescued from starvation, famine and economic crisis doesn't really do it for you.
And a Nobel Prize winner biologist saying " "Dosage makes the poison. But vitamins, which are vital, are taken in smaller quantities. If we could get a gene from rice - because rice does not suffer from rust - and then use it to protect other crops that suffer from rust like wheat, that would be a big revolution, and that will not be dangerous to human health in any way," is just corporate talk.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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frostysh
Bad-mannered
Famous Hero
WHY?
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posted August 30, 2016 11:35 AM |
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Edited by frostysh at 11:53, 30 Aug 2016.
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yogi -
yogi said:
science is not debating with some random guy on the internet, but keen, critical observation, research, meticulous cataloging, and detailed data; verifying the truth for yourself..
Of course, mr/mrs yogi I trying always to verify something that I have obtain, i.e. the information about the "healthy ancestors with a cool nutritions and the poor doomed modern folks"
And why the Science cannot appear in the debating with a random user at the Holy Internet? I mean if there topic is cool, and the arguments is trying to be close to the truth - Why not? 
yogi said:
* http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/26/opinion/sunday/breeding-the-nutrition-out-of-our-food.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Yogi, man, I have asked you to no post just a links to the huge amout of the text (not like this one, but anyway), because you see if you already have read this stuff, would be better just post a quote, and you commentaries rather than post a frigging single link to the 300 pages book without any suppport words, this is looks ridiculous, I know that you are supersmart guy, but keep in mind that I am not, so I cannot read a boring 300 page book just to make the answer for your post .
As for article itself: The problem that is describes in the article is too pity, but indeed, the all GMO is must to be tested and carefully measured and compared to their "wild brothers and sisters" before it is go to the markets, as it is happens. As always the author have a huge leak of the effect of the different factors to the population health, the modern population and the past population, I think this fitonutitions have a little less importance in that case .
Anywa' I am a very happy that you agreed - the Science is not just a data!
yogi said:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271383352_Nutrition_Value_of_Wild_Animal_Meat
"Nutrition Value of Wild Animal Meat
The results of the conducted research suggest that game meat samples have higher protein and essential fatty acid content in comparison with domestic animals."
Cannot access the content . Anyway, I think will be a difference indeed.
yogi said:
http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.hunting-game-nutrition-value.html
"Nutrient content of wild game meat vs domesticated meat.
Surveys show that carcasses of domesticated animals have 25 to 30% fat while the average fat content of wild game animals is only 4.3%."
Yogi, man, I typed to you arguments that your mr Price work about the Nutritions Horror of the modern society have a lot of leaks, and in general this work sux, and you have posted a random links to the articles about differences between domesticated monsters and the wild monsters body part consistence as the answer .
As I said before, the mr. Price' work is an archaic and sux. The modern industrial society of the past was a far from nowadays gym + good + personal doctors .
yogi said:
http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/guts-and-grease-the-diet-of-native-americans/
Remarkable Health
That the hunter-gatherer was healthy there is no doubt. Weston Price noted an almost complete absence of tooth decay and dental deformities among native Americans who lived as their ancestors did.5 They had broad faces, straight teeth and fine physiques. This was true of the nomadic tribes living in the far northern territories of British Columbia and the Yukon, as well as the wary inhabitants of the Florida Everglades, who were finally coaxed into allowing him to take photographs. Skeletal remains of the Indians of Vancouver that Price studied were similar, showing a virtual absence of tooth decay, arthritis and any other kind of bone deformity. TB was nonexistent among Indians who ate as their ancestors had done, and the women gave birth with ease.
And something like that constantly appearing through the whole article. I mean there is a huge difference between the tribal-hunter way of life and the in-time of mr Price living a fabric-worker way of life.
First one to obtain the amount of fats is need to work hard through the full day, and day by day, through the whole life. The second one can just go to the market after work, and his work is usually means a low kaillory consuming work, - like a standing near a mechanism and pushing the buttons. This is the same as comparing the tribal hunter and the today Olympic champion that is whole life spent in the training.
The conclusions: the article have suffer from the same diseases that mr. Price stuff - leak of the different factors that can take a great affect on the health of the modern human and the human of the past, and concentrating only in the sacred nutritions.
The references of the article is providing us with an outdated works, and the works of members of this Winston Price Foundation or the supporters, which is obviously can be a little bit subjective . . .
yogi said:
lol
this is like reading a childrens book
http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/abcs-of-nutrition/the-usdas-pyramid-scheme/
I am a PhD candidate in Nutrition Epidemiology at the University of North Carolina. I represent the Healthy Nation Coalition, a public health advocacy group dedicated to changing our definition of healthy food. But I also represent all those Americans who have tried to eat a healthy diet according to the USDA’s definition and have become overweight, obese, and sick in the process. I was one of those people—obese and sick—when I ate according to the guidelines.
I went back to school because I worked at a Duke Clinic, where I met a lot of people just like me, people who were struggling with weight gain and poor health, trying to force their bodies to be well on a dietary pattern never proven to have specific health benefits. That’s right, the recommended diet has not even been tested.
The dramatic rise in obesity in America began in the early 1980s after the release of the first Dietary Guidelines for Americans, after which Americans gradually reduced the fat in their diets and consumed more carbohydrate foods.
Ohhh...
I have know one human - the women, she was over 94 years old, I think so, and she is still can do everyday work in shes house - actually it is called on the west something like a ranch or a farm.
Se have a life like a hell, and she is not obese or a fat in she 94 years old regardless of consuming a large amount of animal and plant related grease and fats stuff almost everyday. Why is it so? Perhaps that because she is in the frigging continuous physical activity from she 6-year old age to shes 94, everyday hard work? Shes daughter is something near 70 years old, and she is not obese and fat too, because of the same frigging life conditions.
The skin of this granny is the almost black like the niggas have , regardless of her white parents - again that not because of notritions but because of the from the sunrise to the sunset work outside of the house.
The conclusions is? - The VERY different lifestyle in the teram of the psychical activity between a poor rural folks and Urban/Civilized rich rural folks playing it's role when we telling about obese and fat peoples. Eats fats and spent your half of the day in GYM and you will be fine, eat fats like Winston Price Association guys recommended and spent your whole day sitting near PC, and you will be fat I have guaranteed you.
About the Dietary Guidelines for Americans and rising amount of the fat peoples. As always in the articles of the Winston Price Association guys, we can observe a hell lot amount of the missed factors. i.e. the rising of the fast food industry can easily cause an obese syndrome in the huge population society as Uncle Sam is.
Quote:
This is a graph from the USDA showing the increase in consumption of soft drinks and the decrease in consumption of milk. It is from a USDA publication, Amber Waves, at this location:www.ers.usda.gov/Amberwaves/April04/pdf/indicators.pdf
Diet and obesity
The Dietary Guidelines for Americans in this case actually the answer to the danger of uncontrolled rising of the amount of the fat peoples in the society, and the realted government programs have their goal to reduce this amount.
In the addition to that, we provide an crazy pity statistic of the frigging UN (I mean no disrespect, I am just so exited )
As you can see, this stupid uncertain chart can give us a interesting information that the largest amount of the kailories per 1 unit per 1 day the Uncle Sam have, combining it with the fact the most of this kailories from the simple chemical stuff like soda, that if not transformed into the Energy usually become a pure human fat - we can make conclusion that the nuntrituion stuff and the nonsense about the USDA politic about the diets that is provided by Winston Price Assotiation guys will be deeeeeeeeeep in shadow of the above mentioned factors.
The conclusions is: lack of the psychical activity due to the modern rich country life conditions + fast food, this factors beating a nonsense of Adele Hite, Ph.D., in her article about "USDA making us peoples be fat" .
yogi said:
lol
in other words: scant natural foods and over-exposure to "civilized" food does indeed cause deterioration.
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/03/nutrition-a-pressing-concern-for-american-indians/ - scroll down and start reading at "Poverty: A Leading Contributor"; and if i might add a subtitle, "civilizations greatest innovation".
Harjo says she recalls her grandmother eating a lard sandwich.
“People now have a preference for processed foods, high sugar, white flour,” she notes. “All of those things that are terrible for you, terrible for all of us, are killing Indians.”
The nutritionally devoid “frybread” – made from a deep-fried mixture of flour and lard and eaten with butter, jam or meat and cheese – is the quintessential example of a food derived from government rations, now considered to be a “typical” American Indian food.
Wow such coo analysis of the statistical data, some Hajo said - an amazing it is...
In general the article is just a words, perhaps you can read it once, but there nothing interesting, no research, no statistical data, nothin' . Just a tales.
yogi said:
to be precise, the work of mr. price, and others, does not simply suggest that sugars weaken our immune system, but also that a decline in the consumption of animal products degenerates our lineage. stretch the food chain, break the links. a body is designed to process foods from the environment that spawned it. this really isnt rocket science.
Just be aware, that the mr Price have no equipment and technologies to provide such kind of researches... The Microbiology, the Neurology, is required for a very advanced equipment and technologies, such Isotope Marking, Electronic Microscopes, and so on. Mr. Price even do not know , in the time of mr. Price living, humans only discovered that the germ can be a factor that can causing the diseases ! And indeed it is not a rocket Science .
yogi said:
accumulating enough data reveals patterns and trends. in nature drastic fluctuations generally stunt progression.
im still waiting for someone to link me to a bunch of data on the benefits to heredity of gmo consumption. the children of tomorrow are the solutions to the problems of today. this is evolution. consuming gmos prior to evaluating this data would be highly unscientific; and no experiment is worth compromising the health of our children.
No mr/mrs Yogi, the one who still not provided me with the satisfiyng data is you.
Mr. Price book is obsolete like hell. But there is a cool photos. And I have doubts that in this work has been described reality as is, but rather the mr Price subjective opinion
Adele Hite work is looks like a nonsense, especially in the part about "the hell with fast food, lack of physichal activity, the overeating of the food, and the other factors of modern society - THE MAIN reason of the increasing amount of the fat peoples in US is a USDA directives, "
Foodsafetynews article is a nonsense without any clues.
You have a hell no idea how many children lifes has been saved because of GMO Engineering stuff. artu have provide to you the example about India food problems stuff.
The forstysh' conclusions: This Winston Price Association is like a cult, like a sub-culture "we are different ones, ewe must fought an evil USDA! Eating meat with hands, wow, primitives life, it is so cool!" - the standard, non-interesting for myself stuff, their articles is highly subjective and have a lack of the many important factors, which ridiculous when trying to explain something global and wide like an entire population problems.
the native Amaricanoses like Aztecs, Inkas guys , their civilization in the past sux, through through a thousands of years their population was on the bottom because of the high death rate. And the praying like sentences about this guys in the almost all articles of the Winston Price Association is ridiculous thing.
Anyway I think some of this Association can have an interesting work about genetics and food stuff, I think so.
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